pro mod or pro stock mountain motor motor ?
Discussion
just been having a glance at euro dragster where tami branders new cobalt pro mods been unvailed . are we going to see pro mod loose its identity as the hot rod class as we know it with the trend to have resto style bodies or is going to become pro stock mountain motor ? do you think there should be a cut off year for bodies used in this class to keep it as i think the majority of fans would like it with older style bodies /retro style or should the class be allowed to go for more modern body style which will obviously give the teams using them a big performance advantage and just turn the class into well what ? you may as well call it mountain motor pro stock and wave goodbye to pro mod as we know it ! does anyone know if the cobolt body is going to get a weight penalty like the 63 corvettes do for instance ? i personaly would like to see a cut off year for body styles set at 1972 anyone agree or disagree on these observations ?
In the States at least, newer body styles already carry a weight penalty over the nostalgia cars.
As I recall too, as of 2009 any bodystyle that is homologated for use in Pro Stock will be outlawed for Pro Modified, unless it uses a dual element aerofoil style rear wing. This not only creates a little extra drag, but helps to differentiate the cars from Pro Stock. I think for the AMS series they will be outlawed full stop.
I must say though, you'd have to be a very casual fan not to be able to notice the huffer sticking through the bonnet on Tami's Cobalt.....not exactly common in Pro Stock!
I love the older cars, and pre 72 would work just fine for me, although some modern shapes do look nice. Awesome Motorsports' new cars for example look stunning. More bodystyles are needed though, at the moment the US teams are flooding the class with Cynergy bodied first-gen Camaro's and the ever present '63 Vette.
As I recall too, as of 2009 any bodystyle that is homologated for use in Pro Stock will be outlawed for Pro Modified, unless it uses a dual element aerofoil style rear wing. This not only creates a little extra drag, but helps to differentiate the cars from Pro Stock. I think for the AMS series they will be outlawed full stop.
I must say though, you'd have to be a very casual fan not to be able to notice the huffer sticking through the bonnet on Tami's Cobalt.....not exactly common in Pro Stock!
I love the older cars, and pre 72 would work just fine for me, although some modern shapes do look nice. Awesome Motorsports' new cars for example look stunning. More bodystyles are needed though, at the moment the US teams are flooding the class with Cynergy bodied first-gen Camaro's and the ever present '63 Vette.
topfueldrags said:
How about another class being invented, like pro mod 72 as well as pro mod 
.
. I don't think splitting the class is a good idea. I think the class thrives on inventiveness and the look of the cars, older body styles are good but too many of the same is boring, as are cars which actually look nothing like the are supposed to (some McAmis creations fit into this category). Patrick Wikstrom's Camaro is a great example of how a modern body shell can fit in to Pro Mod but I if someone bought an ex Pro Stocker then fitted a nitrous motor and a bigger wing it would not, in my mind, make a great Pro Mod.
I also don't think an excessive amount of rules are the way forward, but if it looks like turning into a class without character then maybe something should be done. Thankfully I haven't seen this happening in Europe yet - just look at the latest Brit Pro Mods for proof.
I think half the appeal of the class is too see all years of car racing. Nobody seems to run away with it due to having a modern body. I like the fact that a 57 Chevy can beat a 2000 Camaro, a 37 Chevy coupe takes out a 1999 2002 Mustang etc...
Blower vs Nitrous is a great aspect to the class so why cant modern vs old work? I didnt see everyone running towards modern bodys when Patrik Wilkstrom won in his camaro, same as nobody changed to a Mustang when Roger Johansson won the title.
The class is all about variety, i cant see it changing anytime soon...
Blower vs Nitrous is a great aspect to the class so why cant modern vs old work? I didnt see everyone running towards modern bodys when Patrik Wilkstrom won in his camaro, same as nobody changed to a Mustang when Roger Johansson won the title.
The class is all about variety, i cant see it changing anytime soon...
Edited by flying toilet on Tuesday 15th May 10:09
Rat_Fink_67 said:
I must say though, you'd have to be a very casual fan not to be able to notice the huffer sticking through the bonnet on Tami's Cobalt.....not exactly common in Pro Stock!
The difference between a nitrous Cobalt/Stratus/Cavalier etc and a pro stock one is very negligible from just looking at the car, personally to me pro mod is about the old muscle cars, customs, hot rods but chasing 5s@230mph pushes them down the slippery aero route. Problem is when one person finds a body that has an advantage everyone ends up with one, as seen by the domination of '63 Corvettes previously, now Cynergy Camaro's seem the way to go
Jon C said:
Time Machine said:
Patrick Wikstrom's Camaro is a great example of how a modern body shell can fit in to Pro Mod but I if someone bought an ex Pro Stocker then fitted a nitrous motor and a bigger wing it would not, in my mind, make a great Pro Mod.
Roger Johansson did OK though...
Mustangs have never been sucessful Pro Stockers, in NHRA series anyway, but yes Roger Johansson's and Jörgen Karlsson's Mustangs are very pretty
Edited by MotorPsycho on Tuesday 15th May 10:46
MotorPsycho said:
Mustangs have never been sucessful Pro Stockers, in NHRA series anyway, but yes Roger Johansson's and Jörgen Karlsson's Mustangs are very pretty
Edited by MotorPsycho on Tuesday 15th May 10:46
The point I was making was that Rogers car was a former Pro Stock (an ex-Paul 'Tami' Brander car, just to bring the thread full circle), as indeed was Alan Packmans Granada / Scorpio.
Tami does have a record of producing some outrageously gorgeous cars. Remember his Mondeo estate?
noggin the nog said:
you may as well call it mountain motor pro stock and wave goodbye to pro mod as we know it !
527ci is hardly a mountain motor, particularly compared to a 500ci Pro Stock motor. If he'd gone the nitrous route, then maybe you'd have a point.
noggin the nog said:
does anyone know if the cobolt body is going to get a weight penalty like the 63 corvettes do for instance ?
The rules are a bit ambiguous about whether the weight breaks/penalties apply to all cars in the class, or just nitrous cars. Incidentally, the '63 Corvette doesn't get a penalty. I'm not sure where you got that from. Minimum weights are currently 2400lbs for nitrous engines and 2700lbs for blown engines. Pre-1959 body styles get a 25lb break, post-2000 body styles get a 25lb penalty.
noggin the nog said:
i personaly would like to see a cut off year for body styles set at 1972 anyone agree or disagree on these observations ?
Nope, I disagree with that. As others have mentioned, that would outlaw Patrick Wikström's Camaro, and I can't see a rule like that being good for the class. Currently the class isn't broken, so we shouldn't try to fix it. It's worth keeping an eye on it, true, but at the moment, it's a large class, with a large variety of cars. While that remains true, I'd say we have nothing to worry about.
Jon C said:
MotorPsycho said:
Mustangs have never been sucessful Pro Stockers, in NHRA series anyway, but yes Roger Johansson's and Jörgen Karlsson's Mustangs are very pretty
Edited by MotorPsycho on Tuesday 15th May 10:46
The point I was making was that Rogers car was a former Pro Stock (an ex-Paul 'Tami' Brander car, just to bring the thread full circle), as indeed was Alan Packmans Granada / Scorpio.
Tami does have a record of producing some outrageously gorgeous cars. Remember his Mondeo estate?
aah apologies then
Tami's Mondeo was ace
tet what i was trying to put over about the mountain motor pro stocks deal was to try and relay in my mind that a cobalt pro mod is going to be a pro stock car basicly but with a larger than your normal sized 500 cu as used in nhra pro stock (the maximum displacment allowed as every one knows )
and that the pro mod cobalt or is it really built as a pro stock car? could then being used for pro mod with minor diffrences yes the rear wing for one example . i agree its hardly mountain motor size at 526cu in in fact it is relativly small compared to the motors now available, a good example being sonny leonards 814 cu in motors . now thats what you call mountain motor for sure !are you sure the 63 corvette bodies dont incure a weight penalty ? i agree with you also it would be no point making another class with later body styles just keeping pro mod as it is seems the right route to go i think but when will the teams using the cars with aerodynamics more relative to a brick start going for the more modern style bodies to be able to keep up with those going that route ?at the end of the day racing is about winning so if you go modern body style and ditch the older retro style bodies your going to have a better chance of being there on the podium ,andy robinson being the exception and excluded from this post because the studey is although being a old retro style body has proved to be very aerodynamic .im sure if someone like andy went the cobalt route he would be running six ninetys and 240! at the end of the day what i dont want to see is pro mod loose its identity as we know it .
and that the pro mod cobalt or is it really built as a pro stock car? could then being used for pro mod with minor diffrences yes the rear wing for one example . i agree its hardly mountain motor size at 526cu in in fact it is relativly small compared to the motors now available, a good example being sonny leonards 814 cu in motors . now thats what you call mountain motor for sure !are you sure the 63 corvette bodies dont incure a weight penalty ? i agree with you also it would be no point making another class with later body styles just keeping pro mod as it is seems the right route to go i think but when will the teams using the cars with aerodynamics more relative to a brick start going for the more modern style bodies to be able to keep up with those going that route ?at the end of the day racing is about winning so if you go modern body style and ditch the older retro style bodies your going to have a better chance of being there on the podium ,andy robinson being the exception and excluded from this post because the studey is although being a old retro style body has proved to be very aerodynamic .im sure if someone like andy went the cobalt route he would be running six ninetys and 240! at the end of the day what i dont want to see is pro mod loose its identity as we know it .
MotorPsycho said:
The difference between a nitrous Cobalt/Stratus/Cavalier etc and a pro stock one is very negligible from just looking at the car, personally to me pro mod is about the old muscle cars, customs, hot rods but chasing 5s@230mph pushes them down the slippery aero route. Problem is when one person finds a body that has an advantage everyone ends up with one, as seen by the domination of '63 Corvettes previously, now Cynergy Camaro's seem the way to go
Honestly? Bigger tubs, bigger tyres, larger hoodscoop, longer wheelbase, I can see the difference quite clearly. But then again I'm a doorslammer-only person.
Edited by Rat_Fink_67 on Wednesday 16th May 11:27
Jon C said:
The point I was making was that Rogers car was a former Pro Stock (an ex-Paul 'Tami' Brander car, just to bring the thread full circle), as indeed was Alan Packmans Granada / Scorpio.
That's correct, but to be a succesful Pro Mod Roger had to extend the wheelbase quite a lot and alter some of the chassis. Also Al Packman and Clive Bond hacked the back off the Scorpio as well as again altering the chassis before it became a Pro Mod car. Pro Stock and Pro Mod are very different animals.
Edited by Rat_Fink_67 on Wednesday 16th May 11:27
Edited by Rat_Fink_67 on Wednesday 16th May 11:27
Rat_Fink_67 said:
MotorPsycho said:
The difference between a nitrous Cobalt/Stratus/Cavalier etc and a pro stock one is very negligible from just looking at the car, personally to me pro mod is about the old muscle cars, customs, hot rods but chasing 5s@230mph pushes them down the slippery aero route. Problem is when one person finds a body that has an advantage everyone ends up with one, as seen by the domination of '63 Corvettes previously, now Cynergy Camaro's seem the way to go
Honestly? Bigger tubs, bigger tyres, larger hoodscoop, longer wheelbase, I can see the difference quite clearly. But then again I'm a doorslammer-only person.
Edited by Rat_Fink_67 on Wednesday 16th May 11:27
Yea I can but we're talking casual fans here
Edited by MotorPsycho on Wednesday 16th May 12:35
Edited by MotorPsycho on Wednesday 16th May 12:36
Rat_Fink_67 said:
Time Machine said:
MotorPsycho said:
Yea I can but we're talking casual fans here
I'd guess the yellow one is the Pro Stocker but only because (a) one of them must be a Pro Stocker to make the point valid and (b) Pro Mod tends to have more colourful paint.
The Pro Mod has more front overhang. Quite a simple way to spot it.
Plus there's the side-exit headers and non-Pro Stock legal spill plates. Rat_Fink_67 said:
Rat_Fink_67 said:
Time Machine said:
MotorPsycho said:
Yea I can but we're talking casual fans here
I'd guess the yellow one is the Pro Stocker but only because (a) one of them must be a Pro Stocker to make the point valid and (b) Pro Mod tends to have more colourful paint.
The Pro Mod has more front overhang. Quite a simple way to spot it.
Plus there's the side-exit headers and non-Pro Stock legal spill plates. Another post when an edit would do?
Rat_Fink_67 said:
The Pro Mod has more front overhang. Quite a simple way to spot it.
Plus there's the side-exit headers and non-Pro Stock legal spill plates. Even with prompting I can't spot any of those features on those 2 pictures. This monitor isn't very good, but then the point was that a casual fan wouldn't be able to tell the different, and a casual fan wouldn't be looking for those details.
That aside, I think the general point is something along the lines of "We like Pro Mod because the cars are interesting. At present nothing is threatening this, but if everyone had one of these wouldn't it be dull?"
On a related note, I would love to see European bodies in European Pro Stock.
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