Trials of Finding New Job
Discussion
That's a long list. And rather tallies with my experience. I feel there are an awful lot of roles out there which don't really exist.
I've been looking off and on since June.
1) Applied via LinkedIn for role. Had an hour's pre-screening telephone interview with the agent. Then an awful Video conference with a guy in Europe somewhere and a guy who was literally ten minutes up the road - why I couldn't have gone onsite so at least two of us were in the same room I'll never know. They actually said on the call they weren't entirely sure what they wanted! Looking back I can see they have been advertising the role since February and are still advertising.
2) A decent headhunter I know setup two telephone interviews. First one was a decent enough interview but they found someone with a better fit - fair enough. Second one they decided they didn't actually need that role filling after all.
3) Mammoth application process for a role consisting of a telephone interview, a five page application form going back to school days, several case studies, an entire day (0900-1730) onsite being interviewed, then a further telephone interview (they rearranged it twice). After all that was rejected as "not flexible enough".
4) Telephone interview for a role where they'd already filled it internally - got feedback to that effect the next day!
5) Straight to face-to-face (refreshing!) and another "found someone with a better fit". Fair enough again. My sort of job it's often as much a cultural fit as technical abilities.
6) Telephone interview for a role that, after two weeks of silence, I heard had gone to a mate of the hiring manager instead
7) Telephone interview that ... yep ... filled internally
I have a feeling that at the moment there is a lot of stagnancy in the job market, and plenty of firms just building pools of candidates in case brexit doesn't happen/doesn't affect the economy the way the doom-mongers predict.
I counted up and I've made around 100 applications in total to get those 7 interviews.
It's quite irritating to spend so long doing tailored CVs, cover letters etc. or worse that full day off work, only to get nowhere.
I've been looking off and on since June.
1) Applied via LinkedIn for role. Had an hour's pre-screening telephone interview with the agent. Then an awful Video conference with a guy in Europe somewhere and a guy who was literally ten minutes up the road - why I couldn't have gone onsite so at least two of us were in the same room I'll never know. They actually said on the call they weren't entirely sure what they wanted! Looking back I can see they have been advertising the role since February and are still advertising.
2) A decent headhunter I know setup two telephone interviews. First one was a decent enough interview but they found someone with a better fit - fair enough. Second one they decided they didn't actually need that role filling after all.
3) Mammoth application process for a role consisting of a telephone interview, a five page application form going back to school days, several case studies, an entire day (0900-1730) onsite being interviewed, then a further telephone interview (they rearranged it twice). After all that was rejected as "not flexible enough".
4) Telephone interview for a role where they'd already filled it internally - got feedback to that effect the next day!
5) Straight to face-to-face (refreshing!) and another "found someone with a better fit". Fair enough again. My sort of job it's often as much a cultural fit as technical abilities.
6) Telephone interview for a role that, after two weeks of silence, I heard had gone to a mate of the hiring manager instead
7) Telephone interview that ... yep ... filled internally
I have a feeling that at the moment there is a lot of stagnancy in the job market, and plenty of firms just building pools of candidates in case brexit doesn't happen/doesn't affect the economy the way the doom-mongers predict.
I counted up and I've made around 100 applications in total to get those 7 interviews.
It's quite irritating to spend so long doing tailored CVs, cover letters etc. or worse that full day off work, only to get nowhere.
ToothbrushMan said:
Personally I think because the job market is broken in the UK those that really want work would greatly benefit from some fresh regulation of the industry in terms of outlawing the readvertising of jobs that have been filled, adverts for fake or non-existent positions, CV "gathering" by deceit, not giving feedback to each and every applicant who at least made it to interview stage all so applicants should have confidence that when they see a vacancy, it is genuine and if they go to the time and trouble of tailoring their cover letter and CV then that applicant deserves a response and where found in breach big fines are slapped on these companies and agencies.
But it wouldn't benefit the employment statistics that they wheel out when promoting immigration, shortages in this area or that area, fake jobs all get counted into the statistics, so when they're claiming there are skills shortages, the statistics will support it. Hence why the authorities will never do anything about these under hand employment agency tacticsAs for re-advertised jobs, I applied for a role, had one interview and a long personality test, I got a second interview the next week, everything went really REALLY well, didn't get the job even though HR told me that the 2nd interview was just a "rubber stamp".
Then they advertised another job (but via an agency this time) on a short term contract, I was called in for an interview and after getting suited and booted, and driving 30 miles over there, I was told in reception that they I was the wrong <insert my rather rare name>, which is a weird way to treat someone who you'd thought good enough to interview twice already.
The original role was still being advertised on their own website nearly 2 years later.
I thought long and hard on what had happened, I also played back the audio from the interviews (I always record meetings of any sort these days). I'm convinced that what they were doing was running interviews to pump viable candidates for information on how to solve their quality and manufacturing issues. Well I've got news for them, trying to run an electronics manufacturing company where most if not all of the equipment is more than 40 years old, and where more money is invested in German cars for managers, MIGHT just be part of the problem....... F**king idiots.
Job seeking is a minefield, but then how many honest companies turn a profit these days?
Edited by lyonspride on Sunday 30th September 23:05
ToothbrushMan said:
firstly thanks for joining this chat. at least you are in a job so have money coming in whilst you look for a new job. its far far harder now to find work whether in or out of work not sure it makes much difference anymore.
I agree being in a job doesn't make it easier to find another one, but there is a lot less pressure to do so. Which in turn can make for more relaxing interviews (even if a lot of holiday leave is being taken up to do them).They say that as a candidate you need to interview the company too to make sure you're a fit. Which is decent advice if you're in employment and want to make sure it's the right move. But if you're unemployed and just need an income, then it's virtually irrelevant.
im getting to the stage that when I go for interview now i am already thinking "is this company wasting my time?"......i know its an unhealthy way to think but after so many top interviews where you think its a walk in the park you get not just a knock back but sometimes nothing or the real insult saying we went with somebody else only to see that vacancy advertised over and over.......
I have an interview Wednesday. Ive already had word from the agent that the interviewer "wants to know how I will get on with the journey (the daily commute) so you can already sense that rather than think to themselves this guy lives too far away we wont waste his or our time getting him over for interview they are thinking get him in anyway and lets waste his time.........I am very cynical now about these companies when hiring.
I'll strut in and tell then how easy the journey was and that it wouldnt be a problem then in a few days time the agency will probably say their client thought the commute was going to be a bit too far for me. But if I can get there then surely thats my decision otherwise I wouldnt have asked to be considered for the position? If that is there only reason for not giving me the job I should be able to reclaim my train fare back from them.
I've worked with people who commuted 2, 3 or 4 days a week to Manchester or London from Birmingham. This job is 17 miles/45 mins away LOL. We will see.
I have an interview Wednesday. Ive already had word from the agent that the interviewer "wants to know how I will get on with the journey (the daily commute) so you can already sense that rather than think to themselves this guy lives too far away we wont waste his or our time getting him over for interview they are thinking get him in anyway and lets waste his time.........I am very cynical now about these companies when hiring.
I'll strut in and tell then how easy the journey was and that it wouldnt be a problem then in a few days time the agency will probably say their client thought the commute was going to be a bit too far for me. But if I can get there then surely thats my decision otherwise I wouldnt have asked to be considered for the position? If that is there only reason for not giving me the job I should be able to reclaim my train fare back from them.
I've worked with people who commuted 2, 3 or 4 days a week to Manchester or London from Birmingham. This job is 17 miles/45 mins away LOL. We will see.
Flooble said:
That's a long list. And rather tallies with my experience. I feel there are an awful lot of roles out there which don't really exist.
I've been looking off and on since June.
1) Applied via LinkedIn for role. Had an hour's pre-screening telephone interview with the agent. Then an awful Video conference with a guy in Europe somewhere and a guy who was literally ten minutes up the road - why I couldn't have gone onsite so at least two of us were in the same room I'll never know. They actually said on the call they weren't entirely sure what they wanted! Looking back I can see they have been advertising the role since February and are still advertising.
2) A decent headhunter I know setup two telephone interviews. First one was a decent enough interview but they found someone with a better fit - fair enough. Second one they decided they didn't actually need that role filling after all.
3) Mammoth application process for a role consisting of a telephone interview, a five page application form going back to school days, several case studies, an entire day (0900-1730) onsite being interviewed, then a further telephone interview (they rearranged it twice). After all that was rejected as "not flexible enough".
4) Telephone interview for a role where they'd already filled it internally - got feedback to that effect the next day!
5) Straight to face-to-face (refreshing!) and another "found someone with a better fit". Fair enough again. My sort of job it's often as much a cultural fit as technical abilities.
6) Telephone interview for a role that, after two weeks of silence, I heard had gone to a mate of the hiring manager instead
7) Telephone interview that ... yep ... filled internally
I have a feeling that at the moment there is a lot of stagnancy in the job market, and plenty of firms just building pools of candidates in case brexit doesn't happen/doesn't affect the economy the way the doom-mongers predict.
I counted up and I've made around 100 applications in total to get those 7 interviews.
It's quite irritating to spend so long doing tailored CVs, cover letters etc. or worse that full day off work, only to get nowhere.
for the job in no.3 - can I ask what on earth this job was? a full day of interviews? that end result of not being flexible enough is taking the mickey surely.....sounds like youve already demonstrated just how flexible you are-this saddens me after all that effort.I've been looking off and on since June.
1) Applied via LinkedIn for role. Had an hour's pre-screening telephone interview with the agent. Then an awful Video conference with a guy in Europe somewhere and a guy who was literally ten minutes up the road - why I couldn't have gone onsite so at least two of us were in the same room I'll never know. They actually said on the call they weren't entirely sure what they wanted! Looking back I can see they have been advertising the role since February and are still advertising.
2) A decent headhunter I know setup two telephone interviews. First one was a decent enough interview but they found someone with a better fit - fair enough. Second one they decided they didn't actually need that role filling after all.
3) Mammoth application process for a role consisting of a telephone interview, a five page application form going back to school days, several case studies, an entire day (0900-1730) onsite being interviewed, then a further telephone interview (they rearranged it twice). After all that was rejected as "not flexible enough".
4) Telephone interview for a role where they'd already filled it internally - got feedback to that effect the next day!
5) Straight to face-to-face (refreshing!) and another "found someone with a better fit". Fair enough again. My sort of job it's often as much a cultural fit as technical abilities.
6) Telephone interview for a role that, after two weeks of silence, I heard had gone to a mate of the hiring manager instead
7) Telephone interview that ... yep ... filled internally
I have a feeling that at the moment there is a lot of stagnancy in the job market, and plenty of firms just building pools of candidates in case brexit doesn't happen/doesn't affect the economy the way the doom-mongers predict.
I counted up and I've made around 100 applications in total to get those 7 interviews.
It's quite irritating to spend so long doing tailored CVs, cover letters etc. or worse that full day off work, only to get nowhere.
Another knock back from the public sector today (local authority).
I initially aimed for jobs at my previous level only to be told I don't have the right experience for the jobs advertised.
So I lowered my expectations and aimed lower down the ladder, and now I'm being told I'm over qualified.
Can't win!
I initially aimed for jobs at my previous level only to be told I don't have the right experience for the jobs advertised.
So I lowered my expectations and aimed lower down the ladder, and now I'm being told I'm over qualified.
Can't win!
MYOB said:
Another knock back from the public sector today (local authority).
I initially aimed for jobs at my previous level only to be told I don't have the right experience for the jobs advertised.
So I lowered my expectations and aimed lower down the ladder, and now I'm being told I'm over qualified.
Can't win!
Trouble with being over qualified is they know if a better job comes along you'll be off like a shot .I initially aimed for jobs at my previous level only to be told I don't have the right experience for the jobs advertised.
So I lowered my expectations and aimed lower down the ladder, and now I'm being told I'm over qualified.
Can't win!
MYOB said:
Another knock back from the public sector today (local authority).
I initially aimed for jobs at my previous level only to be told I don't have the right experience for the jobs advertised.
So I lowered my expectations and aimed lower down the ladder, and now I'm being told I'm over qualified.
Can't win!
at least you had a reply which is a novelty these days. youre right sounds like you cant win and i feel your frustrations......painful.I initially aimed for jobs at my previous level only to be told I don't have the right experience for the jobs advertised.
So I lowered my expectations and aimed lower down the ladder, and now I'm being told I'm over qualified.
Can't win!
ive been looking through job boards today and some of the applications are just soul destroying and they are sucking the life out me - these are for basic jobs generally paying NMW like a driver for a charity or shelf stacker etc. you know 9 time out of 10 that your application will not be looked at by a human.
egor110 said:
Trouble with being over qualified is they know if a better job comes along you'll be off like a shot .
I agree with you but having had experience of working in the public sector, this is not a criteria that should be used to reject applicants. They are supposed to identify the best candidate on who can do the job - not the risks of the successful applicant moving on in a short time frame.Pragmatically you are correct that this is the way it tends to work in the private sector and I agree with it.
ToothbrushMan said:
at least you had a reply which is a novelty these days. youre right sounds like you cant win and i feel your frustrations......painful.
ive been looking through job boards today and some of the applications are just soul destroying and they are sucking the life out me - these are for basic jobs generally paying NMW like a driver for a charity or shelf stacker etc. you know 9 time out of 10 that your application will not be looked at by a human.
I cannot even bring myself to looking at those jobs - how the heck can people expect to survive on the NMW? All well and good if you can afford to work at NMW level, but not many of us can. I accept some people do not have a choice and I simply hope that the likes of us do not end up in that situation.ive been looking through job boards today and some of the applications are just soul destroying and they are sucking the life out me - these are for basic jobs generally paying NMW like a driver for a charity or shelf stacker etc. you know 9 time out of 10 that your application will not be looked at by a human.
ToothbrushMan said:
for the job in no.3 - can I ask what on earth this job was? a full day of interviews? that end result of not being flexible enough is taking the mickey surely.....sounds like youve already demonstrated just how flexible you are-this saddens me after all that effort.
It was a semi-techie role as a Scrum Master. Small-ish firm (20-30 staff) so not even the excuse of corporate policies. Yes, it was maddening to be put through the mill like that and then receive such an excuse. I suspect I simply asked for too much money, but that was discussed up front on the telephone call so who knows.Flooble said:
ToothbrushMan said:
for the job in no.3 - can I ask what on earth this job was? a full day of interviews? that end result of not being flexible enough is taking the mickey surely.....sounds like youve already demonstrated just how flexible you are-this saddens me after all that effort.
It was a semi-techie role as a Scrum Master. Small-ish firm (20-30 staff) so not even the excuse of corporate policies. Yes, it was maddening to be put through the mill like that and then receive such an excuse. I suspect I simply asked for too much money, but that was discussed up front on the telephone call so who knows.MYOB said:
egor110 said:
Trouble with being over qualified is they know if a better job comes along you'll be off like a shot .
I agree with you but having had experience of working in the public sector, this is not a criteria that should be used to reject applicants. They are supposed to identify the best candidate on who can do the job - not the risks of the successful applicant moving on in a short time frame.Pragmatically you are correct that this is the way it tends to work in the private sector and I agree with it.
ToothbrushMan said:
at least you had a reply which is a novelty these days. youre right sounds like you cant win and i feel your frustrations......painful.
ive been looking through job boards today and some of the applications are just soul destroying and they are sucking the life out me - these are for basic jobs generally paying NMW like a driver for a charity or shelf stacker etc. you know 9 time out of 10 that your application will not be looked at by a human.
I cannot even bring myself to looking at those jobs - how the heck can people expect to survive on the NMW? All well and good if you can afford to work at NMW level, but not many of us can. I accept some people do not have a choice and I simply hope that the likes of us do not end up in that situation.ive been looking through job boards today and some of the applications are just soul destroying and they are sucking the life out me - these are for basic jobs generally paying NMW like a driver for a charity or shelf stacker etc. you know 9 time out of 10 that your application will not be looked at by a human.
egor110 said:
Often though somebody over qualified won't just come in and do the job they we're taken on to do , they want to change everything because they think they know better.
If you say so. That's a risk but it's not applicable to everyone. You can also get people with no experience who think they are a know it all, graduates for example.OP on the opposite side, we recently advertised for a trainee role within the company.
The CV intake to start with was slow, it did eventually pick up after a few weeks, but we were getting majorly over-qualified people apply, people who were ex-business owners apply (i had a guy in his 40's who'd owned a multi-million £ business apply), he obviously thought a lot about himself, as he sent a 9 page CV in, as well as a profile photo.
We had people applying for jobs who were 4 hours away, we had people sending odd CV's in with multiple spelling mistakes, we had CV's from Scotland, Italy, it was honestly a waste of my time, most didn't even send a covering letter.
We whittled it down to 3, interviewed the first 2, one couldn't even tell me what his parents did for a living, despite having worked with them as a volunteer for the last 6 months, nor what company they worked for.
The second told us he didn't know if he'd really want to be in the job for more than a couple years as he might find something he liked more, whilst i did actually see the funny side of that one and agree with the honesty in principle, it's not really what you want to hear if you're looking for somebody who wants to forge a career.
Our 3rd interviewee couldn't have come across better in an interview, we'd decided by the time the meeting ended that we wanted to offer them the job & even upped the salary for them as they came across so well.
The frustrations are on both sides, i can assure you that!
The CV intake to start with was slow, it did eventually pick up after a few weeks, but we were getting majorly over-qualified people apply, people who were ex-business owners apply (i had a guy in his 40's who'd owned a multi-million £ business apply), he obviously thought a lot about himself, as he sent a 9 page CV in, as well as a profile photo.
We had people applying for jobs who were 4 hours away, we had people sending odd CV's in with multiple spelling mistakes, we had CV's from Scotland, Italy, it was honestly a waste of my time, most didn't even send a covering letter.
We whittled it down to 3, interviewed the first 2, one couldn't even tell me what his parents did for a living, despite having worked with them as a volunteer for the last 6 months, nor what company they worked for.
The second told us he didn't know if he'd really want to be in the job for more than a couple years as he might find something he liked more, whilst i did actually see the funny side of that one and agree with the honesty in principle, it's not really what you want to hear if you're looking for somebody who wants to forge a career.
Our 3rd interviewee couldn't have come across better in an interview, we'd decided by the time the meeting ended that we wanted to offer them the job & even upped the salary for them as they came across so well.
The frustrations are on both sides, i can assure you that!
HistoricBM said:
applied for a senior level role recently.....
28th September
Thank you for your application for the role of ....
We appreciate the time and effort taken in submitting your application.
After careful consideration, we regret to inform you that we are not progressing with your application on this occasion.
1st October
Congratulations! You have been progressed forward in the recruitment process and next we would like you to complete the assessments detailed in the table below....
28th September
Thank you for your application for the role of ....
We appreciate the time and effort taken in submitting your application.
After careful consideration, we regret to inform you that we are not progressing with your application on this occasion.
1st October
Congratulations! You have been progressed forward in the recruitment process and next we would like you to complete the assessments detailed in the table below....
ToothbrushMan said:
had another thought first thing this morning and maybe others "of a certain age" can see similarities? Please read on and let me know if this is starting to ring tru or whether I am just a bit para.
about 6 weeks back I had a great (in my eyes) 2 hour interview (which flew by) with a major global company household name etc handled their 8 competency based questions well IMHO didnt really stutter or mess up on them and the answers were solid and relateable to the role. it was all going great guns and then about 5 or 10 mins from the end the main interviewer ( it was 2 hander) said that when applying did I see they needed some ID to verify who you are and that you are entitled to work here etc? I said yes (not even thinking at this point of anything remotely untoward as it was a simple request) . she asked if I had brought this with me as it "helps speed things up later" ( you hear that line and you start to get your hopes up as it sounds like a buying sign). I had the exact qualification they required. I had the "minimum 5 years experience" in that field and more and clearly knew what I was talking about - hell, when can I start!
i had my man bag and so pulled out my wallet and handed them my driving licence and a copy of a professional certificate and deed poll name change and birth certificate. I made a point on my CV and in my applications not to reveal my age/DOB (Lets just say I am under 50 but over 45). Off she went and took ages to photocopy the documents. came back and it was like "OK" thats its then. We did the small talk as I was escorted off the premises and I've heard diddly ever since.
Now I am thinking hang on a minute it was'nt a driving job so really they did'nt need my driving licence at that early stage. Obviously right there on your licence is your DOB! so straight away they can work out my age. Now who truly knows but I've read lots of stuff on the internet suggesting that if you are over 35 years of age these days companies think you are past it and place you in the No Hire bin.
Now I am thinking well there was nothing they could fault me on at the interview so have I been a victim of ageism? Thinking it and proving are two different things. I dont see that I can pursue them for this only to ask them for feedback as I had heard nothing since the interview 6 weeks back. Is there any way I could trip them up into coming back to me and have them unwittingly incriminate themselves if I was indeed a no hire because they felt I was too old?
What I am wondering in future though is whether to refuse to hand over any documentation again like this reasoning with the interviewer that I am happy to supply it upon receipt of a written job offer but that at this stage my ID has nothing to do with the role. If I was driving a van then fair enough they might want to see my DL.
Is there a chance Ive been shafted here after handing over my DL/birth cert docs? Anyone had similar thoughts after interviews?
At over 60, there are loads of good paying jobs out there.about 6 weeks back I had a great (in my eyes) 2 hour interview (which flew by) with a major global company household name etc handled their 8 competency based questions well IMHO didnt really stutter or mess up on them and the answers were solid and relateable to the role. it was all going great guns and then about 5 or 10 mins from the end the main interviewer ( it was 2 hander) said that when applying did I see they needed some ID to verify who you are and that you are entitled to work here etc? I said yes (not even thinking at this point of anything remotely untoward as it was a simple request) . she asked if I had brought this with me as it "helps speed things up later" ( you hear that line and you start to get your hopes up as it sounds like a buying sign). I had the exact qualification they required. I had the "minimum 5 years experience" in that field and more and clearly knew what I was talking about - hell, when can I start!
i had my man bag and so pulled out my wallet and handed them my driving licence and a copy of a professional certificate and deed poll name change and birth certificate. I made a point on my CV and in my applications not to reveal my age/DOB (Lets just say I am under 50 but over 45). Off she went and took ages to photocopy the documents. came back and it was like "OK" thats its then. We did the small talk as I was escorted off the premises and I've heard diddly ever since.
Now I am thinking hang on a minute it was'nt a driving job so really they did'nt need my driving licence at that early stage. Obviously right there on your licence is your DOB! so straight away they can work out my age. Now who truly knows but I've read lots of stuff on the internet suggesting that if you are over 35 years of age these days companies think you are past it and place you in the No Hire bin.
Now I am thinking well there was nothing they could fault me on at the interview so have I been a victim of ageism? Thinking it and proving are two different things. I dont see that I can pursue them for this only to ask them for feedback as I had heard nothing since the interview 6 weeks back. Is there any way I could trip them up into coming back to me and have them unwittingly incriminate themselves if I was indeed a no hire because they felt I was too old?
What I am wondering in future though is whether to refuse to hand over any documentation again like this reasoning with the interviewer that I am happy to supply it upon receipt of a written job offer but that at this stage my ID has nothing to do with the role. If I was driving a van then fair enough they might want to see my DL.
Is there a chance Ive been shafted here after handing over my DL/birth cert docs? Anyone had similar thoughts after interviews?
Edited by ToothbrushMan on Wednesday 5th September 06:58
I don't think ageism comes into it at all
In defence of testing etc. I use cognitive skills tests and a short written exam with only two questions when hiring. I come from an industry where this is common for some technical roles, anyway, so have carried this on having moved to another similar field. I have found that I can’t rely on cvs - people can look great on paper and use the right jargon at interview but then can’t even tackle basic questions (I regularly get people not even trying and I have made sure the answers are clear if you know the basic techniques)
All candidates who show up (and some don’t) get detailed feedback though.
All candidates who show up (and some don’t) get detailed feedback though.
HistoricBM said:
applied for a senior level role recently.....
28th September
Thank you for your application for the role of ....
We appreciate the time and effort taken in submitting your application.
After careful consideration, we regret to inform you that we are not progressing with your application on this occasion.
1st October
Congratulations! You have been progressed forward in the recruitment process and next we would like you to complete the assessments detailed in the table below....
28th September
Thank you for your application for the role of ....
We appreciate the time and effort taken in submitting your application.
After careful consideration, we regret to inform you that we are not progressing with your application on this occasion.
1st October
Congratulations! You have been progressed forward in the recruitment process and next we would like you to complete the assessments detailed in the table below....
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