Muslim prayer breaks at work - fair or not?
Discussion
Marf said:
Surely that would be covered under depdendancy leave?
Not a clue, I ran my desk in a fairly relaxed manner though as I said. If anyone had raised dependancy leave then I'd have looked into it, but it wasn't a regular thing by any means. Leaving early was the main thing people were interested in, so a shorter lunch break was common enough (some people would pop out for 5-10 mins to grab food and eat it at their desk, so they left an hour early).SystemParanoia said:
NO
if you want a part time worker you would have one. that would work all their hours in one go.
unless you're happy to put your business on hold 1,500 times a day just to pander to one single employee
Talk about going over the top.if you want a part time worker you would have one. that would work all their hours in one go.
unless you're happy to put your business on hold 1,500 times a day just to pander to one single employee
Muslims pray 5 times per day. Don't automatically assume that your company is going to suddenly become insolvent because somebody decided to pray.
There are 5 prayers:
Morning prayer: Fajr - takes all of 5 minutes. 10 minutes with ablution (should it need to be done)
Afternoon prayer: Zuhr - takes all of 10 minutes + 5 mins with ablution (should it need to be done)
Early evening prayer - As'r -10 minutes maximum (5 if you decide to shorten it) - + 5 minutes(should it need to be done)
Evening prayer - Magrib - 5 minutes maximum plus another 5 for ablution (should it need to be done)
Night time prayer: Isha- takes all of 15 minutes + 5 minutes ablution (should it need to be done)
How is taking time out to pray for no more than a maximum of 20 minutes any different to going out for a fag break/ gossiping/surfing the internet for 30 minutes at a time doing nothing productive/ flirting/deciding to have a 'quickie' with someone in the office?
I'd wager you could get more producitivity out of someone who prays regularly than someone who is easily distracted/amused within the workplace.
Don't provide commentary on things you simply don't understand or have picked up from the Daily Mail/ The Sun.
It makes YOU look dumb and insults everybody else's intelligence at the same time too.
Edited by Schermerhorn on Saturday 19th September 13:11
Bill said:
Has this ever happened in this country?
It just strikes me that the sort of muslim who would insist on praying 5 times a day would probably not have integrated into UK society sufficiently to get a job in a non-muslim business. AFAIK the 5 prayers a day is only friday, which they would presumably prefer to take off anyway, and prayer doesn't have to be the full rug and facing east monty.
You're wrong.It just strikes me that the sort of muslim who would insist on praying 5 times a day would probably not have integrated into UK society sufficiently to get a job in a non-muslim business. AFAIK the 5 prayers a day is only friday, which they would presumably prefer to take off anyway, and prayer doesn't have to be the full rug and facing east monty.
5 times a day (every day) is compulsory on all Muslims. Whether they choose to do or not is their choice.
You've been reading Daily Mail too much if you think that if Muslims pray 5 times per day they must be social misfits/terrorists/outcasts/recluses etc. That simply is not the case.
Kermit power said:
I think there's an element of Daily Wailism creeping into some of the replies on here...
First off, for any Muslim to stop work for prayers 5 times in a day, they would have to be working quite exceptionally long shifts! The official times of prayer in London today were 04:41, 06:35, 12:56, 16:23, 19:15 and 21:04.
Secondly, in my experience, Muslims take no more than 5-10 minutes to say their prayers. Given the amount of tea breaks, fag breaks, fresh air breaks and the like that most people take during the working day, Muslims are hardly taking the piss if they take a few minutes in their lunch break and in the afternoon for prayers, are they?
Thirdly, it might be argued that people with the conscientiousness to pray on a daily basis - whatever their religion - are generally going to be conscientious in other areas of their lives, and thus possibly inclined to be more hard-working overall.
Finally, regardless of the employee, the happier they are, the harder they are likely to work. It would be a pretty short-sighted employer who pissed off his Muslim employees for the sake of a short break for prayers.
My personal experience of all of this was when visiting a reseller in Egypt. If prayers occurred during a meeting, then those who wished to pray did so, and those of us who didn't just took a quick tea break. It really didn't inconvenience anyone in the slightest degree.
A well written response from someone who either knows a bit about the subject or has taken the time to find out. Therefore the comments made have a factual basis and aren't just borne out of ignorance. If only all serious discussions/debates followed the same example.First off, for any Muslim to stop work for prayers 5 times in a day, they would have to be working quite exceptionally long shifts! The official times of prayer in London today were 04:41, 06:35, 12:56, 16:23, 19:15 and 21:04.
Secondly, in my experience, Muslims take no more than 5-10 minutes to say their prayers. Given the amount of tea breaks, fag breaks, fresh air breaks and the like that most people take during the working day, Muslims are hardly taking the piss if they take a few minutes in their lunch break and in the afternoon for prayers, are they?
Thirdly, it might be argued that people with the conscientiousness to pray on a daily basis - whatever their religion - are generally going to be conscientious in other areas of their lives, and thus possibly inclined to be more hard-working overall.
Finally, regardless of the employee, the happier they are, the harder they are likely to work. It would be a pretty short-sighted employer who pissed off his Muslim employees for the sake of a short break for prayers.
My personal experience of all of this was when visiting a reseller in Egypt. If prayers occurred during a meeting, then those who wished to pray did so, and those of us who didn't just took a quick tea break. It really didn't inconvenience anyone in the slightest degree.
Good man Kermit.
Scraggles said:
gave up on religion when was a teenager, some muslim gave me a copy of the koran, told him it would come in great when camping and have run out of bog paper, he looked really puzzled 
just wish it was softer paper
I bet you didn't really.just wish it was softer paper
The last thing I would do is insult a Muslim to his face about his religion.
We had some muslim pcso's at my last station who suddenly become very devout when they realised they got extra breaks for praying.
They all went from once a week on a friday to 3 or 5 times a day.It normally was 3 times, they then got an extra 45mins on their 2 main breaks in a 12 hour shift.This doubled their normal 45min break.
When the other guys complained nothing happened.
No matter what time you gave them breaks it was strange that their pray time was always at the end of their normal break!They just took us for mugs which we were really.
They all went from once a week on a friday to 3 or 5 times a day.It normally was 3 times, they then got an extra 45mins on their 2 main breaks in a 12 hour shift.This doubled their normal 45min break.
When the other guys complained nothing happened.
No matter what time you gave them breaks it was strange that their pray time was always at the end of their normal break!They just took us for mugs which we were really.
We have a muslim indian fella at work, never seen him pray although he does have tomorrow off for the end of Ramadan or something, has been a moody prick for nearly a month because of the non eating thing. Personally i couldn't care less if he prayed 100 times a day, as long as i could take the equivalent fag breaks/holidays/events etc.
It's simple really.
If the prayer breaks annoy you or you have an issue with them, don't employ muslims. If they don't then employ muslims.
If you arn't in a position to influence the hiring of people then suck it up and deal with it.
If they get more breaks than you, so what, who said life is fair?
If the prayer breaks annoy you or you have an issue with them, don't employ muslims. If they don't then employ muslims.
If you arn't in a position to influence the hiring of people then suck it up and deal with it.
If they get more breaks than you, so what, who said life is fair?
Hmm
Quite an interesting thread this one, taught me a few things and answered a few q's that I had about prayer times etc
I'd probably go with the "if its good enough for smokers then why not" argument, so long as it doesnt interupt business
If that did become a problem to the business I think they ought to be free to refuse without fear of recrimination from the PC brigade
Quite an interesting thread this one, taught me a few things and answered a few q's that I had about prayer times etc
I'd probably go with the "if its good enough for smokers then why not" argument, so long as it doesnt interupt business
If that did become a problem to the business I think they ought to be free to refuse without fear of recrimination from the PC brigade
samdale said:
i know theres doubt about the validity and accuracy of this article but it is somehow quite a satisfying read...
Yeah, but I think white Aussies should shut the f@@k up about respecting the native population's religious beliefs as any Aborigines could quite easily say the same thing to them;)Chain email a while back said:
Prime Minister John Howard - Australia
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'
'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'
'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'
'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'
'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'
'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'
'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'
Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American and Canadian citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths.
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'
'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'
'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'
'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'
'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'
'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'
'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'
Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American and Canadian citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths.
Schermerhorn said:
You're wrong.
5 times a day (every day) is compulsory on all Muslims. Whether they choose to do or not is their choice.
You've been reading Daily Mail too much if you think that if Muslims pray 5 times per day they must be social misfits/terrorists/outcasts/recluses etc. That simply is not the case.
Here outlines the hypocrasy of religion.5 times a day (every day) is compulsory on all Muslims. Whether they choose to do or not is their choice.
You've been reading Daily Mail too much if you think that if Muslims pray 5 times per day they must be social misfits/terrorists/outcasts/recluses etc. That simply is not the case.
If it's compulsory then they can't choose. If you don't want to follow a religion devoutly, give it up. I think this would rid the world of at least 90% of people who believe in these mythical beings written about in story books (bible etc)
As you were ...
Edited by MynameisRob on Monday 21st September 14:09
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