Trainee train drivers wanted...
Discussion
forrestgrump said:
Re assessments, get plenty of Group Bourdon practice in the bank and the rest are fairly straight forward. That’s the main one really and no one is any good at it straight off the bat despite it seeming ‘easy’.
Don’t worry too much about shift work, you’d think it was the worse thing in the world reading this thread. A 2am alarm is also a 9am finish and a free day to do whatever you like
Railforums is also a very good resource despite some of its drawbacks.
I'm not sure glib, dismissive remarks about how shift work can seriously drain you help. Sure you'll get home at 9am ( TOC dependant) most of our proper earlies i.e the ones that book on at 3am finish between 11am/12pm, so time you get home you get what 4/5 hours before you really need to start preparing for the next day, making sure you eat and try to get sleep and rest before the next day. Two weeks of doing that and when you get home after an early and you are absolutely fDon’t worry too much about shift work, you’d think it was the worse thing in the world reading this thread. A 2am alarm is also a 9am finish and a free day to do whatever you like
Railforums is also a very good resource despite some of its drawbacks.
ked. Which just happens nicely as you can switch into two weeks of lates. I personally find the shift times the hardest part of the job as it's so inconsistent, I've been a shift worker for 18 years, in a previous job a rotational 12 hour shift which was on balance way easier to deal with due to the fixed times. It was so much easier to fit in around.
Railforums is only useful if you know your onions and can pick out the tidbits of useful information from the mountains of chaff and downright complete bulls
t posted on it. 
Vickers_VC10 said:
I'm not sure glib, dismissive remarks about how shift work can seriously drain you help. Sure you'll get home at 9am ( TOC dependant) most of our proper earlies i.e the ones that book on at 3am finish between 11am/12pm, so time you get home you get what 4/5 hours before you really need to start preparing for the next day, making sure you eat and try to get sleep and rest before the next day. Two weeks of doing that and when you get home after an early and you are absolutely fked. Which just happens nicely as you can switch into two weeks of lates.
I personally find the shift times the hardest part of the job as it's so inconsistent, I've been a shift worker for 18 years, in a previous job a rotational 12 hour shift which was on balance way easier to deal with due to the fixed times. It was so much easier to fit in around.
Railforums is only useful if you know your onions and can pick out the tidbits of useful information from the mountains of chaff and downright complete bullst posted on it.
It's refreshing to see a common sense post about Railway shifts compared to outside world shift patterns, I've been on the railways nearly 20yrs and will never get used to the shifts.ked. Which just happens nicely as you can switch into two weeks of lates. I personally find the shift times the hardest part of the job as it's so inconsistent, I've been a shift worker for 18 years, in a previous job a rotational 12 hour shift which was on balance way easier to deal with due to the fixed times. It was so much easier to fit in around.
Railforums is only useful if you know your onions and can pick out the tidbits of useful information from the mountains of chaff and downright complete bulls
t posted on it. Before the railways I worked static shifts and they were so much easier, it's the 12hr 1 min between shifts sometimes that's a killer and in at 2am working until 11am with your main break 1hr into your job !
After a long day I just usually try and rest before it all starts again, the shifts also effect your family life and social life.
It's not all doom and gloom but it's best to be aware of how the real railway runs and not the perception of some opinionated people on Railway forums.
Vickers_VC10 said:
I'm not sure glib, dismissive remarks about how shift work can seriously drain you help. Sure you'll get home at 9am ( TOC dependant) most of our proper earlies i.e the ones that book on at 3am finish between 11am/12pm, so time you get home you get what 4/5 hours before you really need to start preparing for the next day, making sure you eat and try to get sleep and rest before the next day. Two weeks of doing that and when you get home after an early and you are absolutely fked. Which just happens nicely as you can switch into two weeks of lates.
I personally find the shift times the hardest part of the job as it's so inconsistent, I've been a shift worker for 18 years, in a previous job a rotational 12 hour shift which was on balance way easier to deal with due to the fixed times. It was so much easier to fit in around.
Railforums is only useful if you know your onions and can pick out the tidbits of useful information from the mountains of chaff and downright complete bullst posted on it.
Boom.ked. Which just happens nicely as you can switch into two weeks of lates. I personally find the shift times the hardest part of the job as it's so inconsistent, I've been a shift worker for 18 years, in a previous job a rotational 12 hour shift which was on balance way easier to deal with due to the fixed times. It was so much easier to fit in around.
Railforums is only useful if you know your onions and can pick out the tidbits of useful information from the mountains of chaff and downright complete bulls
t posted on it. wobman said:
Vickers_VC10 said:
I'm not sure glib, dismissive remarks about how shift work can seriously drain you help. Sure you'll get home at 9am ( TOC dependant) most of our proper earlies i.e the ones that book on at 3am finish between 11am/12pm, so time you get home you get what 4/5 hours before you really need to start preparing for the next day, making sure you eat and try to get sleep and rest before the next day. Two weeks of doing that and when you get home after an early and you are absolutely fked. Which just happens nicely as you can switch into two weeks of lates.
I personally find the shift times the hardest part of the job as it's so inconsistent, I've been a shift worker for 18 years, in a previous job a rotational 12 hour shift which was on balance way easier to deal with due to the fixed times. It was so much easier to fit in around.
Railforums is only useful if you know your onions and can pick out the tidbits of useful information from the mountains of chaff and downright complete bullst posted on it.
It's refreshing to see a common sense post about Railway shifts compared to outside world shift patterns, I've been on the railways nearly 20yrs and will never get used to the shifts.ked. Which just happens nicely as you can switch into two weeks of lates. I personally find the shift times the hardest part of the job as it's so inconsistent, I've been a shift worker for 18 years, in a previous job a rotational 12 hour shift which was on balance way easier to deal with due to the fixed times. It was so much easier to fit in around.
Railforums is only useful if you know your onions and can pick out the tidbits of useful information from the mountains of chaff and downright complete bulls
t posted on it. Before the railways I worked static shifts and they were so much easier, it's the 12hr 1 min between shifts sometimes that's a killer and in at 2am working until 11am with your main break 1hr into your job !
After a long day I just usually try and rest before it all starts again, the shifts also effect your family life and social life.
It's not all doom and gloom but it's best to be aware of how the real railway runs and not the perception of some opinionated people on Railway forums.
It is something to bear in mind and you have to really look into whether this type of shift work is for you. It IS draining. I’ve been doing it for over 18 years now and I still dread the early starts (although thankfully our earliest book on is 04.45) and yes, there are positives like your day is half over when you’re taking the morning commuters in to start their day but the varying nature of the rota can be draining and you feel your body is always trying to catch up. It’s seems to be always a week behind.
Don’t let it put you off though. It is a rewarding, stable and enjoyable career but go into it with your eyes wide open.
The jobs section of railforums.com is pretty good and there’s a wealth of information on there but the general train section is filled with wannabes who’ve downloaded a pdf of the rule book and that now makes them an expert and competent to comment on things that you’ve been doing for yonks.
Mind you, someone showed me the practice material from a recent campaign and I was like WTF? Couldn’t make head or tail of it and the dot tests brought me out in a sweat from remembering when I done it many moons ago!
Use the practice material until it becomes second nature and you’ll be fine. Oh, and deffo wear smart clobber to the tests and as someone said earlier, you are being evaluated the moment you walk in so remain professional, polite and good natured at all times, even on breaks.
Don’t let it put you off though. It is a rewarding, stable and enjoyable career but go into it with your eyes wide open.
The jobs section of railforums.com is pretty good and there’s a wealth of information on there but the general train section is filled with wannabes who’ve downloaded a pdf of the rule book and that now makes them an expert and competent to comment on things that you’ve been doing for yonks.
Mind you, someone showed me the practice material from a recent campaign and I was like WTF? Couldn’t make head or tail of it and the dot tests brought me out in a sweat from remembering when I done it many moons ago!
Use the practice material until it becomes second nature and you’ll be fine. Oh, and deffo wear smart clobber to the tests and as someone said earlier, you are being evaluated the moment you walk in so remain professional, polite and good natured at all times, even on breaks.
If you make it to the managers interview they'll ask you how you will cope with the shifts, bare in mind most managers will be ex full time drivers and probably went into management as the shifts became too much or too draining. If you are willing to commit to them and the job you'll be fine. A lot of drivers end up swapping with another and do permanent earlies or lates, depends on the person and life they lead but for me it's a whole load of fk that, after two weeks I'm ready to do the opposite. Not to mention good variety of diagrams and moves that way, plus less chance of doing a rest day and doing a shunt you did on paper.....8 years ago.
k that, after two weeks I'm ready to do the opposite. Not to mention good variety of diagrams and moves that way, plus less chance of doing a rest day and doing a shunt you did on paper.....8 years ago.CoolHands said:
As someone with a regular job ans hours, can anyone say why aren’t shifts split into 3 rather than 2? Ie the day I split into 3. Surely that’d be easier for each individual to manage, and still the same number of man-hours for the company?
I think I get what you mean, but our shifts are of three “types”; earlies, lates and nights.Earlies book on between 0400-0830 and off between 1100-1800.
Lates are on 1200-1830 and off 2000-0300.
Nights are on 2000-2330 and off 0500-0800 (urgh).
CoolHands said:
As someone with a regular job ans hours, can anyone say why aren’t shifts split into 3 rather than 2? Ie the day I split into 3. Surely that’d be easier for each individual to manage, and still the same number of man-hours for the company?
A driver’s hours are fitted around the working timetable and not the other way round. Give a driver a straight eight hour shift everyday and he’ll be sitting around doing nothing for part of shift. If a trip from A to B and back to A takes 2hrs and 14mins to complete and he only has 1hr 30 left on his shift - he ain’t going out again!
This is why we have weird and differing shift lengths as it fits in with the timetable and maximises the amount of productive work a driver can accomplish within his day.
CoolHands said:
As someone with a regular job ans hours, can anyone say why aren’t shifts split into 3 rather than 2? Ie the day I split into 3. Surely that’d be easier for each individual to manage, and still the same number of man-hours for the company?
The railways run 24/7 especially busy depots, were I work there's always drivers about the station every day even Christmas day and boxing day. I work permanent earlies as its better for childcare for my family, many people like permanent swaps for routine.
The rostering of traincrew is quite complex and we're I work we work varied routes and shifts every day, sometimes 9-10hr jobs other times 6-7hr jobs averaging out as a 4 day 35hr week.
I think I definitely work better on lates, I can struggle through earlies as I have done for the rest of my career but they're usually 10 or 12hr shifts, so long days. I've been on a 12 pattern 2 days 2 nights 4 off for a while now but I've done 6 on 4 off, some 5 on 3 off shifts (not a fan) and some weird mixed patterns which are a combo of 3 4 and 5 days on and 3 or 4 days off.
I take it all operators run different patterns? Do you usually get long periods off to recharge or do the short shifts mean you're always at work? With 6 hour shifts I'm not sure how you manage to get your hours in!
I take it all operators run different patterns? Do you usually get long periods off to recharge or do the short shifts mean you're always at work? With 6 hour shifts I'm not sure how you manage to get your hours in!
Chicken Chaser said:
I take it all operators run different patterns? Do you usually get long periods off to recharge or do the short shifts mean you're always at work? With 6 hour shifts I'm not sure how you manage to get your hours in!
Short answer is, they dont! One depot, not too far from me, they bust their hours every November like clockwork. Older lads take the month(ish) off and others get the pound signs in their eyes!
Chicken Chaser said:
I think I definitely work better on lates, I can struggle through earlies as I have done for the rest of my career but they're usually 10 or 12hr shifts, so long days. I've been on a 12 pattern 2 days 2 nights 4 off for a while now but I've done 6 on 4 off, some 5 on 3 off shifts (not a fan) and some weird mixed patterns which are a combo of 3 4 and 5 days on and 3 or 4 days off.
I take it all operators run different patterns? Do you usually get long periods off to recharge or do the short shifts mean you're always at work? With 6 hour shifts I'm not sure how you manage to get your hours in!
The rostas at the depot I work at are designed over a 42 line link, different links work different routes but they are designed to work to average out as a 35hr week over the link total.I take it all operators run different patterns? Do you usually get long periods off to recharge or do the short shifts mean you're always at work? With 6 hour shifts I'm not sure how you manage to get your hours in!
In some weeks it can vary from 1 day as spare to a week of spares, that means I can be over 3hrs forward or 2hrs back from the spare turn length.
As I said rostering can be very complicated on the railways, you take the rough with the smooth but over the length of the link it usually works in your favour.
Some tocs have Sundays in the working week others have it as committed overtime, it's very much toc or foc dependent.
Chicken Chaser said:
I think I definitely work better on lates, I can struggle through earlies as I have done for the rest of my career but they're usually 10 or 12hr shifts, so long days. I've been on a 12 pattern 2 days 2 nights 4 off for a while now but I've done 6 on 4 off, some 5 on 3 off shifts (not a fan) and some weird mixed patterns which are a combo of 3 4 and 5 days on and 3 or 4 days off.
I take it all operators run different patterns? Do you usually get long periods off to recharge or do the short shifts mean you're always at work? With 6 hour shifts I'm not sure how you manage to get your hours in!
My TOC runs a week of earlies, week of lates, week of earlies, week of lates, week of nights, repeat. Weeks start on a Sunday and finish on a Saturday. Days off vary, sometimes you'll get your two rest days together, others not.I take it all operators run different patterns? Do you usually get long periods off to recharge or do the short shifts mean you're always at work? With 6 hour shifts I'm not sure how you manage to get your hours in!
The shortest turnaround is finishing at 0230 on a Saturday night/Sunday morning and then being back in for an early turn Monday morning.
Chicken Chaser said:
Are there limitations on driver hours like pilots?
Yes although I'm not exactly sure what they are. Something like 6hrs without a break, which is harder than it sounds. Max of 13 turns in 14 (I think) and 12 hrs between turns.
Ours shifts are weird our weeks can be as short as 14 or 15 hrs or as long as 58hrs. Earliest start is 0400, minimum shift length is 5hrs so you can finish at 9 in the morning. Setting the alarm for 0230 is an eye opener.
Earlies tend to be short 5-7hr turns, afters tend to be relatively long at 9.5hrs. We do a week of nights ever 6 months which are generally easy, maybe 10 shunts and you're done, 2100-0600 notionally but usually a much earlier finish.
Coming from normal hours to shifts I haven't found it too bad but I used to do 16 hour days at times so it's funny to see drivers moaning about 10hr shifts of which a third they're likely not doing anything, hardest part is the random start times, never 0600, always 0617 so you end up checking 5 times and then rechecking your alarm another 5 times.
couzens said:
Hi all,
Just before christmas I was asked to attend a assessment day with DB Cargo. Does anyone know what the assessment will entail?
I'm due to be given info a week before the assessment, but thought I'd try and do a bit of research just to prep myself a bit more.
Thanks.
For the interview portion if it was the same as mine they ask you 6 generic questions then expect an answer along the Situation Task Action Result model. Just before christmas I was asked to attend a assessment day with DB Cargo. Does anyone know what the assessment will entail?
I'm due to be given info a week before the assessment, but thought I'd try and do a bit of research just to prep myself a bit more.
Thanks.
My advice would be to create idealised answers to the scenarios, it's what a lot of people do.
I answered based on real life experiences but it was the most painful 2hrs of my life. Part of that was because my assessor seemed as thick as two short planks and I should have made it as simple as possible for her to put a tick next to each category.
That was at DB's Doncaster assessment centre.
Vickers_VC10 said:
I'm not sure glib, dismissive remarks about how shift work can seriously drain you help. Sure you'll get home at 9am ( TOC dependant) most of our proper earlies i.e the ones that book on at 3am finish between 11am/12pm, so time you get home you get what 4/5 hours before you really need to start preparing for the next day, making sure you eat and try to get sleep and rest before the next day. Two weeks of doing that and when you get home after an early and you are absolutely fked. Which just happens nicely as you can switch into two weeks of lates.
I personally find the shift times the hardest part of the job as it's so inconsistent, I've been a shift worker for 18 years, in a previous job a rotational 12 hour shift which was on balance way easier to deal with due to the fixed times. It was so much easier to fit in around.
Railforums is only useful if you know your onions and can pick out the tidbits of useful information from the mountains of chaff and downright complete bullst posted on it.
I’m not being glib, nor dismissive. It’s personal experience, much as your post. But this thread isn’t very balanced, there’s a lot of scaremongering on here, whereby shifts are the worst thing to happen to anybody, you’ll always be exhausted, you’ll have no life. The flip side to that is some people thrive on shift work and that there are positives to it. The conclusion is you’ll find out how you handle shift work when you do it, but don’t automatically expect to hate it or struggle with it because you’ll more likely end up doing so. ked. Which just happens nicely as you can switch into two weeks of lates. I personally find the shift times the hardest part of the job as it's so inconsistent, I've been a shift worker for 18 years, in a previous job a rotational 12 hour shift which was on balance way easier to deal with due to the fixed times. It was so much easier to fit in around.
Railforums is only useful if you know your onions and can pick out the tidbits of useful information from the mountains of chaff and downright complete bulls
t posted on it. forrestgrump said:
I’m not being glib, nor dismissive. It’s personal experience, much as your post. But this thread isn’t very balanced, there’s a lot of scaremongering on here, whereby shifts are the worst thing to happen to anybody, you’ll always be exhausted, you’ll have no life. The flip side to that is some people thrive on shift work and that there are positives to it. The conclusion is you’ll find out how you handle shift work when you do it, but don’t automatically expect to hate it or struggle with it because you’ll more likely end up doing so.
It's all relative to which toc or foc or depot you a are based, some have for better T&Cs than others or the depot workload is better. My depot used to run at pre covid 86% efficiency the next depot over 1hr away ran at 35% efficiency. They have no night shifts / shed turns / finishes after midnight and earliest start is 4.45am ! It's not scaremongering it's best to be prepared, that's my way of thinking and saying all depots have it hard or all have it easy isn't the case as we all know.
I would always say the railways is a great career choice but its not for everyone, you need an understanding partner and family. Bank Holidays don't exist as you work most of them and work most weekends.trying to get leave is hard work aswell. But you get time off in the week and long weekends as some tocs but not all.
I would always recommend doing research first before taking a job and then you are aware of the positives and negatives.
It's
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