Advice please - agreed salary increases have been frozen
Discussion
Hello
I have worked for a company for a couple years or so. I came in on a mediocre salary with assurances it would rise in time (I am relatively young).
I am on an internal training scheme, and had been promised two salary increases at 12 and 24 months. My 12 month increase was due in January, however in December we were advised that due to the economic climate salary increases would be frozen until June. All increases due would be accrued and back paid if the green light is given mid year (calendar year).
At first there was uncertainty as to whether this would only apply to cost of living rises, however as it transpires, no increase was awarded to me in January and all (most) salaries are indeed frozen.
The increases were agreed though management via email – specific figures and dates were given. Am I correct in assuming this is contractual? If so, surely it should still stand?
Does anybody have any advice? Can anyone indicate the procedure I need to follow? I will of course seek legal advice I suspect I will have to raise a grievance internally in the first instance, but is there a timeframe in which I should do so?
I did speak to a lawyer over the phone, who advised me to set things in motion now (i.e. within 3 months of initial dispute). The thing is, I don’t want to rock the boat needlessly – I have been told that things will be reviewed mid-year and there is a (slim) possibility the increase will be awarded and back paid. This was indicated in a company wide email and has been stated verbally by my boss.
The only thing is, if I don’t act now, does that imply acceptance “that things will be reviewed mid-year and I may not receive pay increase”? If that makes sense? Would my “date of original dispute” be January when increase was withheld, or can it be mid-year where pay increase MAY not be awarded?
Aside from being disappointed and disillusioned, I am prepared to take this as far as I need to. I am aware that the economic climate is fragile, and companies need to be prudent. However I want what was promised and what I believe is due. The company in healthy and profitable anyway.
All help is gratefully appreciated!
I have worked for a company for a couple years or so. I came in on a mediocre salary with assurances it would rise in time (I am relatively young).
I am on an internal training scheme, and had been promised two salary increases at 12 and 24 months. My 12 month increase was due in January, however in December we were advised that due to the economic climate salary increases would be frozen until June. All increases due would be accrued and back paid if the green light is given mid year (calendar year).
At first there was uncertainty as to whether this would only apply to cost of living rises, however as it transpires, no increase was awarded to me in January and all (most) salaries are indeed frozen.
The increases were agreed though management via email – specific figures and dates were given. Am I correct in assuming this is contractual? If so, surely it should still stand?
Does anybody have any advice? Can anyone indicate the procedure I need to follow? I will of course seek legal advice I suspect I will have to raise a grievance internally in the first instance, but is there a timeframe in which I should do so?
I did speak to a lawyer over the phone, who advised me to set things in motion now (i.e. within 3 months of initial dispute). The thing is, I don’t want to rock the boat needlessly – I have been told that things will be reviewed mid-year and there is a (slim) possibility the increase will be awarded and back paid. This was indicated in a company wide email and has been stated verbally by my boss.
The only thing is, if I don’t act now, does that imply acceptance “that things will be reviewed mid-year and I may not receive pay increase”? If that makes sense? Would my “date of original dispute” be January when increase was withheld, or can it be mid-year where pay increase MAY not be awarded?
Aside from being disappointed and disillusioned, I am prepared to take this as far as I need to. I am aware that the economic climate is fragile, and companies need to be prudent. However I want what was promised and what I believe is due. The company in healthy and profitable anyway.
All help is gratefully appreciated!
What is promised and what is contractual are 2 different things. We have just frozen salaries across the board. Those with salary increments within their contratc are being honoured. In a similar vein, union/collective bargaining agreements can be re-negotiated if necessary. A more usual practice in your situation would be that there is a promis eof a salary review within your offer letter at set intervals - the review could still be nil though.
Thanks for the reply. Perhaps I should have been more clear in my terminology....
Is an email from management stating that "your salary structure will be as follows" not contractual? This seems like more than a "promise" to me.
And a later email stating "will be honoured subject to original terms"?
Is an email from management stating that "your salary structure will be as follows" not contractual? This seems like more than a "promise" to me.
And a later email stating "will be honoured subject to original terms"?
Edited by bobbin on Thursday 16th April 14:32
GT03ROB said:
From what you describe, you don't appear to have much of a leg to stand on, sorry.
Believe me also pursuing this legally will cost you far more than anything you will ever get back. It will finish your career where you are & make it very difficult to secure employment elsewhere.
Thanks for your honesty. I was assuming I would follow procedures and represent myself - only obtaining (and paying for) legal advice in the first instance.Believe me also pursuing this legally will cost you far more than anything you will ever get back. It will finish your career where you are & make it very difficult to secure employment elsewhere.
We are talking about two rises that would add 35% to my (meagre) salary.
I understand it would make life difficult at my present employer, although I really don't see me having any future there if I don't get any increase. I am close to walking out now to be honest. The thought crosses my mind every day.
Why and how should it affect securing employment elsewhere? Do you mean they my present employer may not give a reference?
Be very careful.
You say you're very close to walking out. In today's climate, trust me, there'll be a long queue of people waiting to replace you and you could be joining a long queue somewhere else.....
It's not uncommon for salaries to be frozen in the current climate.
If I were you, I'd forget the legal stuff and have a sit down with your boss. Explain your feelings and the fact that you were promised a pay increase in writing. Be direct but polite and completely un-aggressive.
He may understand your viewpoint and offer to review it. He may tell you to poke it.
If it's the latter, think very carefully about your next move. I certainly wouldn't be walking out of any job at the moment.
What do you do out of curiosity?
By 'ruining your career', people are saying that if you're moving around in the same industry where the world is small, you could become known as the guy who caused a load of legal grief. Thereby making future employment....difficult.
You say you're very close to walking out. In today's climate, trust me, there'll be a long queue of people waiting to replace you and you could be joining a long queue somewhere else.....
It's not uncommon for salaries to be frozen in the current climate.
If I were you, I'd forget the legal stuff and have a sit down with your boss. Explain your feelings and the fact that you were promised a pay increase in writing. Be direct but polite and completely un-aggressive.
He may understand your viewpoint and offer to review it. He may tell you to poke it.
If it's the latter, think very carefully about your next move. I certainly wouldn't be walking out of any job at the moment.
What do you do out of curiosity?
By 'ruining your career', people are saying that if you're moving around in the same industry where the world is small, you could become known as the guy who caused a load of legal grief. Thereby making future employment....difficult.
Muzzer said:
Be very careful.
You say you're very close to walking out. In today's climate, trust me, there'll be a long queue of people waiting to replace you and you could be joining a long queue somewhere else.....
It's not uncommon for salaries to be frozen in the current climate.
If I were you, I'd forget the legal stuff and have a sit down with your boss. Explain your feelings and the fact that you were promised a pay increase in writing. Be direct but polite and completely un-aggressive.
He may understand your viewpoint and offer to review it. He may tell you to poke it.
If it's the latter, think very carefully about your next move. I certainly wouldn't be walking out of any job at the moment.
What do you do out of curiosity?
By 'ruining your career', people are saying that if you're moving around in the same industry where the world is small, you could become known as the guy who caused a load of legal grief. Thereby making future employment....difficult.
I can't really say too much on a public forum. I am in a certain kind of civil engineering I suppose, but my backgound is mechanical and production and it is this I am thinking of going back to (say offshore engineering or energy). You say you're very close to walking out. In today's climate, trust me, there'll be a long queue of people waiting to replace you and you could be joining a long queue somewhere else.....
It's not uncommon for salaries to be frozen in the current climate.
If I were you, I'd forget the legal stuff and have a sit down with your boss. Explain your feelings and the fact that you were promised a pay increase in writing. Be direct but polite and completely un-aggressive.
He may understand your viewpoint and offer to review it. He may tell you to poke it.
If it's the latter, think very carefully about your next move. I certainly wouldn't be walking out of any job at the moment.
What do you do out of curiosity?
By 'ruining your career', people are saying that if you're moving around in the same industry where the world is small, you could become known as the guy who caused a load of legal grief. Thereby making future employment....difficult.
I have had several job offers from acquaintances over the last couple of years, and I know of one company is still recruiting now. It seems there is still work in certain specialist areas of engineering if you know where to look. I will be moving out of my current sector so I'm not overly concerned about reputation.
Additionally I have been considering either going back to university or retraining to do a profession that actually pays well, or perhaps looking at business opportunities. I am pretty disillusioned with engineering in this country. It is pretty disgraceful.
I am thinking of quitting as my present situation is driving me up the wall. In the last 10 years I have been "developing" my engineering career, yet I don't even make average graduate starting salary!
I have nearly 3 years of salary saved up, so have contingency. I also have "other concerns" that contribute to my income significantly, so financially I'm OK. But I know I need to be careful.
The main reason I am still with this company right now is that they had offered these two rises. I would have left a long time ago if they hadn't been "promised".
Edited by bobbin on Thursday 16th April 15:18
Edited by bobbin on Thursday 16th April 15:21
bobbin said:
GT03ROB said:
From what you describe, you don't appear to have much of a leg to stand on, sorry.
Believe me also pursuing this legally will cost you far more than anything you will ever get back. It will finish your career where you are & make it very difficult to secure employment elsewhere.
Thanks for your honesty. I was assuming I would follow procedures and represent myself - only obtaining (and paying for) legal advice in the first instance.Believe me also pursuing this legally will cost you far more than anything you will ever get back. It will finish your career where you are & make it very difficult to secure employment elsewhere.
We are talking about two rises that would add 35% to my (meagre) salary.
I understand it would make life difficult at my present employer, although I really don't see me having any future there if I don't get any increase. I am close to walking out now to be honest. The thought crosses my mind every day.
Why and how should it affect securing employment elsewhere? Do you mean they my present employer may not give a reference?
Muzzer said:
Be very careful.
You say you're very close to walking out. In today's climate, trust me, there'll be a long queue of people waiting to replace you and you could be joining a long queue somewhere else.....
It's not uncommon for salaries to be frozen in the current climate.
If I were you, I'd forget the legal stuff and have a sit down with your boss. Explain your feelings and the fact that you were promised a pay increase in writing. Be direct but polite and completely un-aggressive.
He may understand your viewpoint and offer to review it. He may tell you to poke it.
If it's the latter, think very carefully about your next move. I certainly wouldn't be walking out of any job at the moment.
What do you do out of curiosity?
By 'ruining your career', people are saying that if you're moving around in the same industry where the world is small, you could become known as the guy who caused a load of legal grief. Thereby making future employment....difficult.
You say you're very close to walking out. In today's climate, trust me, there'll be a long queue of people waiting to replace you and you could be joining a long queue somewhere else.....
It's not uncommon for salaries to be frozen in the current climate.
If I were you, I'd forget the legal stuff and have a sit down with your boss. Explain your feelings and the fact that you were promised a pay increase in writing. Be direct but polite and completely un-aggressive.
He may understand your viewpoint and offer to review it. He may tell you to poke it.
If it's the latter, think very carefully about your next move. I certainly wouldn't be walking out of any job at the moment.
What do you do out of curiosity?
By 'ruining your career', people are saying that if you're moving around in the same industry where the world is small, you could become known as the guy who caused a load of legal grief. Thereby making future employment....difficult.
If you talk face to face with your employer and explain that the fact that salaries have been frozen is causing you considerable hardship etc., also that you like working there, then there might be a possible scenario whereby they will review your wage as an individual to ease your pain.
If you don't get anywhere then don't simply flounce off but start looking for another job whilst you are still there.
You will miss the income, low as it may seem and it is still 'easier' to go into a job from a job, if 'easy' is an appropriate word today.
If you don't get anywhere then don't simply flounce off but start looking for another job whilst you are still there.
You will miss the income, low as it may seem and it is still 'easier' to go into a job from a job, if 'easy' is an appropriate word today.
bobbin said:
I can't really say too much on a public forum. I am in a certain kind of civil engineering I suppose, but my backgound is mechanical and production and it is this I am thinking of going back to (say offshore engineering or energy).
I'm in these industries, believe me now is NOT the time to be rocking the boat. Salary freezes are across the board. Most are making redundancies, very very few are recruiting. The business is not going to turn for 10-12 months.Edited by bobbin on Thursday 16th April 15:18
Davel said:
If you talk face to face with your employer and explain that the fact that salaries have been frozen is causing you considerable hardship etc., also that you like working there, then there might be a possible scenario whereby they will review your wage as an individual to ease your pain.
If you don't get anywhere then don't simply flounce off but start looking for another job whilst you are still there.
You will miss the income, low as it may seem and it is still 'easier' to go into a job from a job, if 'easy' is an appropriate word today.
I understand what you are saying. I have already expressed concern and disenchantment, however despite being paid a low salary, I am not in "financial hardship" as such - and I think it is known at work. For instance, as we all do, I do have monthly outgoings, plus a child but I have no mortgage and I can run more than one car. If I were to plead hardship they would think I am taking the piss.If you don't get anywhere then don't simply flounce off but start looking for another job whilst you are still there.
You will miss the income, low as it may seem and it is still 'easier' to go into a job from a job, if 'easy' is an appropriate word today.
People may wonder why I am pushing this? It is the principle. I feel I am worth more and that after 10 years of "career development" I should be paid more. Yes indeed, perhaps I may have to move elsewhere.
To be honest, I was hesitant to take the job initially, largely due to low salary. However I took it as it was on offer and convenient at the time.
GT03ROB said:
bobbin said:
I can't really say too much on a public forum. I am in a certain kind of civil engineering I suppose, but my backgound is mechanical and production and it is this I am thinking of going back to (say offshore engineering or energy).
I'm in these industries, believe me now is NOT the time to be rocking the boat. Salary freezes are across the board. Most are making redundancies, very very few are recruiting. The business is not going to turn for 10-12 months.Edited by bobbin on Thursday 16th April 15:18
My personal belfief is lean times are necessary from time to time - especially after periods of excess. "We" need to scale back, re-assess values and processes, and cut out any deadwood.
Thanks everyone for your advice and words of wisdom. If anyone else has any comments or opinions, or even to echo what has been said, please let me know.
It has been useful to get some impartial but knowledgable advice from here.
Edited by bobbin on Thursday 16th April 16:18
If you can afford to leave and not work (which having no mortgage, 3 years salary saved up and running more than 1 car would indicate you can) then by all means look at leaving.
But you've already said that you think this could be the tip of the iceberg in terms of the economic downturn so why risk it?
Sensible option?
Talk to your boss. Be professional and explain your case. If he tells you to poke it DO NOT flounce off and leave.
Wait, take home your crap pay for a few more months and when you find something else, leave in a professional manner.
This company doesn't 'owe' you anything. They made a promise to increase your salary but times are tough and they may simply not be able to afford to. This is business, promises are....fluid.
Unless you think they're using the recession as an excuse not to increase your renumeration, there's no 'principle' to uphold.
Either way, going down the legal route will only take up a lot of time, money and stress on your part for no tangible benefit apart from raising a small smile on your face in the pie-in-the-sky event that you win.
HTH.
But you've already said that you think this could be the tip of the iceberg in terms of the economic downturn so why risk it?
Sensible option?
Talk to your boss. Be professional and explain your case. If he tells you to poke it DO NOT flounce off and leave.
Wait, take home your crap pay for a few more months and when you find something else, leave in a professional manner.
This company doesn't 'owe' you anything. They made a promise to increase your salary but times are tough and they may simply not be able to afford to. This is business, promises are....fluid.
Unless you think they're using the recession as an excuse not to increase your renumeration, there's no 'principle' to uphold.
Either way, going down the legal route will only take up a lot of time, money and stress on your part for no tangible benefit apart from raising a small smile on your face in the pie-in-the-sky event that you win.
HTH.
Muzzer said:
Unless you think they're using the recession as an excuse not to increase your renumeration
I don't think that's uncommon. Seems to me that taking advantage of a widespread perception amongst staff that belts will have to be tightened is a hard opportunity to resist, whether the tightening is needed or not. Nobody wants to pay their staff more than they need to.otolith said:
Muzzer said:
Unless you think they're using the recession as an excuse not to increase your renumeration
I don't think that's uncommon. Seems to me that taking advantage of a widespread perception amongst staff that belts will have to be tightened is a hard opportunity to resist, whether the tightening is needed or not. Nobody wants to pay their staff more than they need to.It may be argued the company owes me nothing, but in many ways I would beg to differ. It has not upheld its agreements. If I didn't uphold my "agreements" or obligations, I would get the boot!
Muzzer said:
If you can afford to leave and not work (which having no mortgage, 3 years salary saved up and running more than 1 car would indicate you can) then by all means look at leaving.
But you've already said that you think this could be the tip of the iceberg in terms of the economic downturn so why risk it?
Sensible option?
Talk to your boss. Be professional and explain your case. If he tells you to poke it DO NOT flounce off and leave.
Wait, take home your crap pay for a few more months and when you find something else, leave in a professional manner.
This company doesn't 'owe' you anything. They made a promise to increase your salary but times are tough and they may simply not be able to afford to. This is business, promises are....fluid.
Unless you think they're using the recession as an excuse not to increase your renumeration, there's no 'principle' to uphold.
Either way, going down the legal route will only take up a lot of time, money and stress on your part for no tangible benefit apart from raising a small smile on your face in the pie-in-the-sky event that you win.
HTH.
Thanks for the advice. I do believe there is a principle - I believe they are using the recession as an excuse as per reasoning in my last post.But you've already said that you think this could be the tip of the iceberg in terms of the economic downturn so why risk it?
Sensible option?
Talk to your boss. Be professional and explain your case. If he tells you to poke it DO NOT flounce off and leave.
Wait, take home your crap pay for a few more months and when you find something else, leave in a professional manner.
This company doesn't 'owe' you anything. They made a promise to increase your salary but times are tough and they may simply not be able to afford to. This is business, promises are....fluid.
Unless you think they're using the recession as an excuse not to increase your renumeration, there's no 'principle' to uphold.
Either way, going down the legal route will only take up a lot of time, money and stress on your part for no tangible benefit apart from raising a small smile on your face in the pie-in-the-sky event that you win.
HTH.
I take on board everything you say about the legal route. Maybe I should just "put up with it", see how things pan out and look elsewhere in the meantime. In many ways I believe I shouldn't have to fight for a better salary - I "should" be paid it if I'm worth it.
If I'm not being paid what I'm worth, I need to address the issues, change what I can or leave if necessary. Besides, I am at the end of my tether with the company - staff turnover seems high and they really do take the piss with salaries. They only offer more when you hand your notice in - even then it's what you should have been paid anyway! I do understand this is not uncommon with other companies though!
Despite all this, do you think there is any legal case at all, out interest?
My suggestion would be to balance between the two,
You understand the need for the company to freeze pay rises but you need some indication of their future plans. When you accepted the position and the terms of your salary you understood clearly there would be as follows, "insert quote here" as you are half way between these points you will soon need to seriously consider your financial situation and costs if no pay rise is to be given. Can we discuss this as a private matter over the comming weeks.
Do realise the landscape has changed they may have forgotten or overlooked your situation, also sueing an employer for a payrise will put you in a very bad position.
Also the person you are dealing with may be in the same position so consider this in your approach.
My advice, its free that is all.
You understand the need for the company to freeze pay rises but you need some indication of their future plans. When you accepted the position and the terms of your salary you understood clearly there would be as follows, "insert quote here" as you are half way between these points you will soon need to seriously consider your financial situation and costs if no pay rise is to be given. Can we discuss this as a private matter over the comming weeks.
Do realise the landscape has changed they may have forgotten or overlooked your situation, also sueing an employer for a payrise will put you in a very bad position.
Also the person you are dealing with may be in the same position so consider this in your approach.
My advice, its free that is all.
bobbin said:
Muzzer said:
If you can afford to leave and not work (which having no mortgage, 3 years salary saved up and running more than 1 car would indicate you can) then by all means look at leaving.
But you've already said that you think this could be the tip of the iceberg in terms of the economic downturn so why risk it?
Sensible option?
Talk to your boss. Be professional and explain your case. If he tells you to poke it DO NOT flounce off and leave.
Wait, take home your crap pay for a few more months and when you find something else, leave in a professional manner.
This company doesn't 'owe' you anything. They made a promise to increase your salary but times are tough and they may simply not be able to afford to. This is business, promises are....fluid.
Unless you think they're using the recession as an excuse not to increase your renumeration, there's no 'principle' to uphold.
Either way, going down the legal route will only take up a lot of time, money and stress on your part for no tangible benefit apart from raising a small smile on your face in the pie-in-the-sky event that you win.
HTH.
Thanks for the advice. I do believe there is a principle - I believe they are using the recession as an excuse as per reasoning in my last post.But you've already said that you think this could be the tip of the iceberg in terms of the economic downturn so why risk it?
Sensible option?
Talk to your boss. Be professional and explain your case. If he tells you to poke it DO NOT flounce off and leave.
Wait, take home your crap pay for a few more months and when you find something else, leave in a professional manner.
This company doesn't 'owe' you anything. They made a promise to increase your salary but times are tough and they may simply not be able to afford to. This is business, promises are....fluid.
Unless you think they're using the recession as an excuse not to increase your renumeration, there's no 'principle' to uphold.
Either way, going down the legal route will only take up a lot of time, money and stress on your part for no tangible benefit apart from raising a small smile on your face in the pie-in-the-sky event that you win.
HTH.
I take on board everything you say about the legal route. Maybe I should just "put up with it", see how things pan out and look elsewhere in the meantime. In many ways I believe I shouldn't have to fight for a better salary - I "should" be paid it if I'm worth it.
If I'm not being paid what I'm worth, I need to address the issues, change what I can or leave if necessary. Besides, I am at the end of my tether with the company - staff turnover seems high and they really do take the piss with salaries. They only offer more when you hand your notice in - even then it's what you should have been paid anyway! I do understand this is not uncommon with other companies though!
Despite all this, do you think there is any legal case at all, out interest?
If you just have an e-mail coversation I doubt you'd have a case. I'm sure your local CAB would be able to advise you much more effectively than I
My point is that if you go down this route, the company won't just roll over and accept it.
If you win, your life will indirectly be made hell until you leave. If you leave, you've gained nothing.
If you lose, and bear in mind if it's any sort of large-ish company chances are they'll have much better legal representation than you, then you'll have laid out time, money and effort for nothing.
What's your employment record like? Have you been completely whiter than white? As in no internet at work, punctual EVERY day, etc. They'll dig and dig until they find something and they'll exaggerate it and use it when they do. Very few people can honestly say that their company would have nothing on them in a legal case...
I sympathise with you and understand your sentiment but in effect, it'd be like swimming the Atlantic to get a free burger - Very hard, a lot of planning, no guarantee of success and not much reward if you are successful.
Just to echo what has been said really, your first step should be to have a face to face discussion with your boss regarding this issue. It may be that a compromise can be reached, but you may have to accept that a policy decision has been made and there wont be any exceptions.
You describe your salary as meagre, so it is definitely worth talking to your boss about financial hardship (although this may not wash if he knows about no mortgage, more than one car etc)
You describe your salary as meagre, so it is definitely worth talking to your boss about financial hardship (although this may not wash if he knows about no mortgage, more than one car etc)
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