getting a career/advice (IT computing, etc)

[Lardydah]

Right, I'll paint the picture, I'm currently in my second year at a fairly well respected Uni (Durham) doing a degree that wouldn't have me called a waster (Computer Science). I'm currently on track for a 2:1 or 1st class mark this year, and have chosen a dissertation that interests me so no reason why I can't keep that up throughout 3rd year!

I've been applying for internships this summer since about December, and haven't really had much luck. My A levels are pretty poor BBC (I managed to scrape into Durham with a bit of luck as they had a low intake in my year, and I think I must have come across well in my interview!) so I've either been rejected at the application form stage, or heard that with the current climate they're not after as much people, etc, etc.. A lot of the large companies also screen graduate programs by A level results, so it doesn't look good!

I am a member of a couple of committees within my college, have helped organise open days for prospective students, helped organise the college beer festival, I play some sport and generally get involved. I have a lot of work experience (not totally relevant to CS) and work whilst at Uni too (bar work).

I'm not sure what else I can do to add to my CV to try and make me a more appealing candidate?

Now that the window for summer internships is pretty much gone, I think my best bet over summer is to just crack on with my dissertation and perhaps get involved in an open source project?

I'm pretty sure I want to get into the IT/CS industry, or at least work with computers in another industry.

Sorry for such a long post, basically what I'm asking the PH collective is.. What would people suggest I do?

[Puggit]

I feel the best course of action is to do something useful with your time over summer - you've already come up with some good suggestions.

Is there a difference between an internship and free volunteer work at IT related companies? This could be another avenue.

[Z064life]

To be honest, grades don't mean anything. I got good grades, but the closest to learning IT is by doing A2 ICT (got a C, 1 mark from a B). My degree was computing related, but based in a business context and thus not programming related.

I learnt programming and computer science on my own, and I have had 3 programming jobs (I am 23 now). I have been made redundant from 2 of them.

It is tough out there

You mention spicing up your CV. As you are a coder, like me, you should learn all about other parts of software engineering like testing, deployment, security. Learn loads of neat tools and write code/a portfolio to prove your abilities. I do all this and it does work.

Good luck.

Edited by Z064life on Friday 8th May 10:09

[edc]

CEO of one of my old (software) companies is Durham alumni. Normally look for straight A's with min 2:1 from a Redbrick. Drop me a PM and I can put you in touch with them.

[recalluk]

Dont just look at graduate programs and internships, a lot of places would expect you to enter in the junior roles .. helpdesk etc. get a couple of months under your belt and move up. Often taking a job at this level and carry on applying is a good route.

[russ_a]

I got an internship at EDS @ Rolls-Royce quite late in the day so don't give up. Are you just applying to firms locally or all over the UK?

[Z064life]

recalluk said:

Dont just look at graduate programs and internships, a lot of places would expect you to enter in the junior roles .. helpdesk etc. get a couple of months under your belt and move up. Often taking a job at this level and carry on applying is a good route.

How can someone get a job and then look for other jobs? Getting the time off for an interview will be difficult. When I job hunt, I get so many interviews. I wouldn't be able to get the required time off soon after starting a job.

OP - write lots of code, use the latest tech, fully understand the fundamentals, read code, participate in communities and read lots of blogs/books.

Edited by Z064life on Friday 8th May 13:47

[gamefreaks]

recalluk said:

Dont just look at graduate programs and internships, a lot of places would expect you to enter in the junior roles .. helpdesk etc. get a couple of months under your belt and move up. Often taking a job at this level and carry on applying is a good route.

Thats how I got into IT. It's a very competative market and often there will be 100's of applicants for a single position.

Half of everything is luck.

I was in the right place at the right time. I took an agency job in a call centre and their IT department was buried in work as they had just moved to a new system, so I did some 'informal IT support' sorting out stuff that IT didn't have time to. People would come to me with problems first because I would solve them quicker than IT. After about 3 months they offered me a job doing IT Support. I stayed there for 3 years. During this time, both of the other IT guys moved on and I inherited their responsibilities leaving just me looking after IT for the site. In the end I left in a major huff over quite a few things.
Be prepared to make a complete pickle of your first job. You'll probably make mistakes and do stupid things that will haunt you while you are there. The important thing is to learn from them and if and when you feel it is time, Take the experience gained, the lessons learnt and a clean sheet somewhere else.

Getting the second job was a lot easier than the first.

[aspender]

You sound like a good candidate for the IBM Extreme Blue summer internship programm

http://www-05.ibm.com/employment/uk/extreme-blue/i...

The UK recruitment has completed, but the Ireland lab in Dublin are still taking applications:

http://www-05.ibm.com/employment/ie/students/extre...

[dustybottoms]

I agree with the posts regarding getting a starter role in an IT support desk, this is exactly how I started.

To be honest with the OP there are many people in IT support desks with good degrees and CS degrees, making career progress in IT is very difficult and as has been said by another poster; you need luck and the right opportunity.

IT is a pressurised environment to work in, especially in the Blue Chip world and the reality is long hours and stressful times, now more than ever. It is paramount in my opinion that you gain good Business and political skills if you wish to go far.

[bogwoppit]

I personally am amazed the helpdesk route has ever worked for anyone wanting to code. If you want a coding job, to stand out you need coding experience. Get involved in an open source project, Summer of Code etc. You need people to look at your CV and instead of tossing it onto the stacked "maybe" pile along with all the other CS graduates, you want them to think "this guy hasn't just been to lectures, he could actually be useful from day 1". This is especially true now, as I'm hearing bad things about hard times.

[Z064life]

bogwoppit said:

I personally am amazed the helpdesk route has ever worked for anyone wanting to code. If you want a coding job, to stand out you need coding experience. Get involved in an open source project, Summer of Code etc. You need people to look at your CV and instead of tossing it onto the stacked "maybe" pile along with all the other CS graduates, you want them to think "this guy hasn't just been to lectures, he could actually be useful from day 1". This is especially true now, as I'm hearing bad things about hard times.

Yep. Spot on. I never did a CS degree, instead my degree was Computing based but a step below Software Engineering - not the base to do coding for a career. Now I am coding for a living (but made redundant - again). I did all of the above and I compared my CV to those of experienced mid/senior level coders.

Problem with getting a helpdesk job is that once you start it, the job is for as long as possible and with most of you time going into your job and your presence at your workplace, how can you look for another job? I doubt your employer would be paying you yet allow you to get interviews elsewhere - especially soon after beginning the job when you need to do the whole "make an impression thing".

Your next employer will say "ok you've worked in a team" but will also question where your coding experience is. Technically, you can learn anything you will at work, at home - I have realised this.

[gamefreaks]

You have to look further than the job title. Not all IT Support/Helpdesk jobs are the same.

Doing 1st line support in a call centre for a comapny that doesn't develop any software is going to be about as much use as telesales with regards to getting a dev job.

On the other hand doing an IT job that involves you working in close proximity to the dev teams will give you a good chance. Make it known that you like programming, chat to the developers etc. You might find that they give you a low priority project to do if the team is busy to see how you handle it. If nothing else, your name will be in the frame if a position becomes available.

As I said, a lot of things are luck and being in the right place at the right time.

ETA: YMMV. I don't have a degree so getting my foot in the door probably involved more luck than the OP will need! Because of this, I don't think I would have had much luck with a more conventional entry path.

Edited by gamefreaks on Monday 11th May 11:24

[badgers_back]

Lie about your A levels they are bugger all prediction about your ability to work..

Think long and hard about pushing a coding career lets face it a lot of coding has been off shored and more will be. What you want is a client facing IT job for any length of career.

[edc]

badgers_back said:

Lie about your A levels they are bugger all prediction about your ability to work..

Think long and hard about pushing a coding career lets face it a lot of coding has been off shored and more will be. What you want is a client facing IT job for any length of career.

Not going to get you off to a good start with an employer. Unfortunately, I have withdrawn offers and dismissed people who have falsified academic information.

If you want to withold them by not disclosing grades on a CV then fair enough. If you are happy to lie about your academics then why not lie about your work history too?

[badgers_back]

edc said:

badgers_back said:

Lie about your A levels they are bugger all prediction about your ability to work..

Think long and hard about pushing a coding career lets face it a lot of coding has been off shored and more will be. What you want is a client facing IT job for any length of career.

Not going to get you off to a good start with an employer. Unfortunately, I have withdrawn offers and dismissed people who have falsified academic information.

If you want to withold them by not disclosing grades on a CV then fair enough. If you are happy to lie about your academics then why not lie about your work history too?

His application is getting binned before they even look at his degree, skills and other areas...

Will the difference between 3A* and what the poster got effect his ability?????

[wiggy001]

gamefreaks said:

You have to look further than the job title. Not all IT Support/Helpdesk jobs are the same.

Doing 1st line support in a call centre for a comapny that doesn't develop any software is going to be about as much use as telesales with regards to getting a dev job.

On the other hand doing an IT job that involves you working in close proximity to the dev teams will give you a good chance. Make it known that you like programming, chat to the developers etc. You might find that they give you a low priority project to do if the team is busy to see how you handle it. If nothing else, your name will be in the frame if a position becomes available.

As I said, a lot of things are luck and being in the right place at the right time.

ETA: YMMV. I don't have a degree so getting my foot in the door probably involved more luck than the OP will need! Because of this, I don't think I would have had much luck with a more conventional entry path.

Edited by gamefreaks on Monday 11th May 11:24

Agree with all of that. In my last company where I managed the second/third line support as well as being a senior developer, we had people come up the ranks of Helpdesk -> Second Line -> Development just by showing an interest and an aptitude.