Discussion
Just venting here, not particularly after any advice 
As a manager within the company I work for, I informed one of my staff that on the run up to Christmas (a busy time for us) that I would need her to perform a different function for a week to assist with this busy time. Several other people would be doing likewise.
This did not go down very well, with much thunderous looks and attitude. As I explained the reasoning behind our decision the lady in question brushed me off with a comment of " This place is all too much for me, it's beyond a joke". I then replied that I was sorry she felt that way, and if these were her true feelings then there were plenty of other jobs available elsewhere.
This lady said " You can't say that to me" and walked off. She finished her shift as instructed, and has been off sick ever since with "Work related stress". (She works part time, usually doing the same job. She is happy to help others if she suggests it. She has no managerial or supervisory roles)
I have today been told that she has filed a grievance with our Head Office (not within the Company Procedures) about my conduct.
I'm not in the slightest bit worried, as I haven't acted in an improper manner, and have the support of my boss and area HR manager, but this sort of approach bugs the hell out of me - "I'll do what I want, not what I'm told"
Where do people get such a sense of entitlement from?
As a manager within the company I work for, I informed one of my staff that on the run up to Christmas (a busy time for us) that I would need her to perform a different function for a week to assist with this busy time. Several other people would be doing likewise.
This did not go down very well, with much thunderous looks and attitude. As I explained the reasoning behind our decision the lady in question brushed me off with a comment of " This place is all too much for me, it's beyond a joke". I then replied that I was sorry she felt that way, and if these were her true feelings then there were plenty of other jobs available elsewhere.
This lady said " You can't say that to me" and walked off. She finished her shift as instructed, and has been off sick ever since with "Work related stress". (She works part time, usually doing the same job. She is happy to help others if she suggests it. She has no managerial or supervisory roles)
I have today been told that she has filed a grievance with our Head Office (not within the Company Procedures) about my conduct.
I'm not in the slightest bit worried, as I haven't acted in an improper manner, and have the support of my boss and area HR manager, but this sort of approach bugs the hell out of me - "I'll do what I want, not what I'm told"
Where do people get such a sense of entitlement from?
Johnnytheboy said:
I feel your pain. Is she middle aged by any chance?
Does the lady in question's contract/job description state that she "may have to cover other duties as necessary" or some similar cover all term?
She is, and she does Does the lady in question's contract/job description state that she "may have to cover other duties as necessary" or some similar cover all term?
Soovy said:
There's the problem. She's lining up a claim for sex discrimination which the company will have to settle as damages are unlimited, and a successful defence does not mean that the company's costs are reimbursed.
It's her exit plan.
She's pissed off because we have just made 14 people voluntarily redundant, with very generous payoffs, and she wasn't one of them.It's her exit plan.
Podie said:
Rollcage said:
I then replied that I was sorry she felt that way, and if these were her true feelings then there were plenty of other jobs available elsewhere.
This lady said "You can't say that to me" and walked off.
I assume you meant other jobs elsewhere in the company that needed doing...This lady said "You can't say that to me" and walked off.
To paraphrase, she said she was fed up working for us, and I thus said she should consider leaving us and finding somewhere else to work.
Soovy said:
Sorry, she's lining your firm up here. The lack of her getting a "package" to leave is the catalyst here. She knows that if she claims constructive dismissal and sex discrimination it will cost £20k to fight it, so she knows the company will settle as it won't get its costs back.
Hmm, will find out later today. Area HR manager calling in, haven't yet seen the complaint letter myself.phil-sti said:
Basically telling someone that " if you don't like it, find a job elsewhere" is a massive no no, she can basically say you have threatened her into doing a job she isn't, trained or physically able too. Never underestimate employees ability to twist a situation.
I didn't tell her to leave, or anything like that. Just pointed out the other opportunities out there. She's is perfectly capable of doing what she was asked, she just didn't want to. Her normal role entails doing much the same thing.Soovy said:
I suspect that she will say you constructively dismissed her by saying "if you don't like it f
k off and work somewhere else".
If this happens, then PM me.
k off and work somewhere else".If this happens, then PM me.
Cheers Soovy. Hopefully won't come to that, it wasn't mentioned this morning when HR phoned. Just a complaint about me.
elanfan said:
OP - just playing Devil's Advocate:
Whilst the old bat might be a pain in the arse (let me guess she is single and of a certain age?) it could be said that your man management skills could be called into question. Asking someone for help with a job rather than telling them you 'need' them to do it can come over better. Suggesting if you don't like it then clear off is again poor use of man management skills. Rather than her being pleased with herself for being able to help you out she is now off sick costing the company money and with potentially a claim against them. It only needs to have a few of these 'grievances' against you for your management to look at you in a whole new light!
DA mode off
Good luck.
I am very aware of how this scenario could be made to look, and it is exactly how you have laid it out above, but as usual there is more behind the scenes stuff that would come into play to fully explain the whole situation right now.Whilst the old bat might be a pain in the arse (let me guess she is single and of a certain age?) it could be said that your man management skills could be called into question. Asking someone for help with a job rather than telling them you 'need' them to do it can come over better. Suggesting if you don't like it then clear off is again poor use of man management skills. Rather than her being pleased with herself for being able to help you out she is now off sick costing the company money and with potentially a claim against them. It only needs to have a few of these 'grievances' against you for your management to look at you in a whole new light!
DA mode off
Good luck.
Suffice to say that until 8 months ago the Indians ran the show, and the Chiefs let it happen, hence the redundancy situation. Life as it should always have been has come as something of a shock to many people there, and the actions of this lady are not entirely unexpected.
When it was suggested to others what we aimed to do for that particular week, her name was mentioned straight away as someone who would "not be pleased" at being asked to do this!
While not wanting to say it was always going to happen, that's pretty much the case here - there was a certain inevitability about the situation. She should really have been sacked about 18 months ago over a similar situation, but the management of the time backed down, and now she feels invincible. It's not the first time it's happened.
It's also the first grievance I've had in a pretty long managerial career, and I've had many much more "honest" discussions.
Some people just don't like being told what to do!
[/defensive mode] !
Nothing as yet - won't get to see the letter until tomorrow.
I have been told that there is nothing to worry about and I have the support of those that matter, such as Area and Regional HR. Probably means I'm doomed then!
Nobody seems worried about any potential discrimination/constructive dismissal claims. As she is obviously finding the job too much, I have asked that she do something else on her eventual return. (IE I won't be her manager. We'll probably get her to work in a different department. She will refuse, citing "custom and practice", and she will then have a choice to make.
I have been told that there is nothing to worry about and I have the support of those that matter, such as Area and Regional HR. Probably means I'm doomed then!
Nobody seems worried about any potential discrimination/constructive dismissal claims. As she is obviously finding the job too much, I have asked that she do something else on her eventual return. (IE I won't be her manager. We'll probably get her to work in a different department. She will refuse, citing "custom and practice", and she will then have a choice to make.
Mobile Chicane said:
Just as well.
It doesn't say much for your management skills if you're (in effect) telling an employee that if they don't like it, they can fk off.
With respect MC, you don't know the background to this.It doesn't say much for your management skills if you're (in effect) telling an employee that if they don't like it, they can f
k off. Sometimes, there is nothing wrong with a bit of honesty. These days, people just don't expect it so much.
If somebody constantly complains about the workplace and their job, and in reality they have no pressure or stress yet still complain, and if you treat the person fairly even if they don't do likewise, then sometimes "I'm sorry you feel that way, but if that is the way you do feel then there are plenty of other jobs out there " is entirely appropriate. It's not rude, it's not underhand - it's just the truth.
Maybe I should have added " and maybe you would be better suited to one of them, as you don't seem happy in your current one?"
These people, and there are many of them, very rarely actually do get up and do something about the predicament they are in, other than complain.
She's resigned, coincidentally as her full pay sickness period came to an end. She never returned to work, and made no attempt to hear the grievance during her absence (which she was under no obligation to do, of course). No mention of any further complications in her resignation letter, so hopefully that will be the end of that!
She has form for this sort of behaviour - off sick with stress and a related grievance.
Last time she complained when she wasn't contacted about the grievance during her absence, so this time we dropped her a very polite letter indicating that if she wished to attend work for a meeting or hearing then to let us know. She then replied by saying that such contact was harassment!
Sometimes, you just can't win!
She has form for this sort of behaviour - off sick with stress and a related grievance.
Last time she complained when she wasn't contacted about the grievance during her absence, so this time we dropped her a very polite letter indicating that if she wished to attend work for a meeting or hearing then to let us know. She then replied by saying that such contact was harassment!
Sometimes, you just can't win!
I told her what she I wanted her to do for the week, yes. Thats my job.
I know how this could look if you wanted to be all bleeding heart about it, but believe me, nothing could be further from the truth.
I decide what my team do and when, not them. This person had considerable form for doing similar over the years, and it's never been dealt with properly, as she has been seeen as "difficult". First time she gets challenged by someone whom she knows won't be intimidated , she's off sick and resigns.
Unfortunately, my current job was initially made pretty hard due to the weakness of previous management teams in always rolling over to the demands of people in exchange for an easy life. That was never going to happen, and it's been a tough journey to get the decision making process resting with the right people again, and this situation was just waiting too happen.
Feedback from several other staff members has been along the lines of too many people having their own way for too long.
Having said that, I'm not particularly happy about what happened, but sometimes you have to do or say things that aren't going to be popular.
I know how this could look if you wanted to be all bleeding heart about it, but believe me, nothing could be further from the truth.
I decide what my team do and when, not them. This person had considerable form for doing similar over the years, and it's never been dealt with properly, as she has been seeen as "difficult". First time she gets challenged by someone whom she knows won't be intimidated , she's off sick and resigns.
Unfortunately, my current job was initially made pretty hard due to the weakness of previous management teams in always rolling over to the demands of people in exchange for an easy life. That was never going to happen, and it's been a tough journey to get the decision making process resting with the right people again, and this situation was just waiting too happen.
Feedback from several other staff members has been along the lines of too many people having their own way for too long.
Having said that, I'm not particularly happy about what happened, but sometimes you have to do or say things that aren't going to be popular.
Sounds familiar, yes. We had 98 staff in December, and had inherited a near enough 33% wage overspend. We now have 80 staff due to redundancies and wasteage, and underspend!
It was one big social club - lots of lunches and evenings out among a large group of staff, and the aforementioned lady was certainly a member of that fairly large clique.
The current management team are certainly seen as the bad guys, or were by many, as we had to implement this change . Life is just now starting to run on an even keel, our job isn't hard but sometimes you would think that we were slave drivers, listening to people. Actually, they still have it fairly easy by the standards of our industry - I have worked inplaces where far, far more has been asked of people. Sadly, about 20 years of management inertia and special treatment led us to where we were last year - it's a long and familiar story, but we are about where we need to be now, but it hasn't always been an easy journey for anyone involved.
It was one big social club - lots of lunches and evenings out among a large group of staff, and the aforementioned lady was certainly a member of that fairly large clique.
The current management team are certainly seen as the bad guys, or were by many, as we had to implement this change . Life is just now starting to run on an even keel, our job isn't hard but sometimes you would think that we were slave drivers, listening to people. Actually, they still have it fairly easy by the standards of our industry - I have worked inplaces where far, far more has been asked of people. Sadly, about 20 years of management inertia and special treatment led us to where we were last year - it's a long and familiar story, but we are about where we need to be now, but it hasn't always been an easy journey for anyone involved.
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