Buying an E90 M3
Discussion
As my mileage is dropping, I think I'm going to replace my hybrid 225 with something a bit more fun (and 4 doors). The E90 is absolutely stonking value at the moment, and it looks like £25k should bag a good example.
I've read a few buyer's guides, and they make it sound like a very easy ownership proposition (if looked after), with few major faults and relatively modest maintenance costs (I fully expect insurance to be a pig). Can this really be true?
Research to date suggests I should be looking for a late (2010/11 on) car with low miles, DCT and EDC, but that's really the extent of my digging so far.
Keen to hear owners' experiences.
- What surprised/disappointed you?
- Did it work as a normal car? (I live in Z2 London, so speedbumps and heavy traffic will make up a large % of time in the car)
- Did it throw up any unexpected/unpleasant bills?
- Are there any options worth holding out for? Or any useless ones?
- Apart from M3Cutters and PH, where should I be looking for good examples?
- Are there any fixes that are good to look out for on a low mile example? (I read that rod bearings tend to fail as a function of mileage)
- Any experience/advice on warranties (aftermarket or BMW)?
Any advice appreciated.
I've read a few buyer's guides, and they make it sound like a very easy ownership proposition (if looked after), with few major faults and relatively modest maintenance costs (I fully expect insurance to be a pig). Can this really be true?
Research to date suggests I should be looking for a late (2010/11 on) car with low miles, DCT and EDC, but that's really the extent of my digging so far.
Keen to hear owners' experiences.
- What surprised/disappointed you?
- Did it work as a normal car? (I live in Z2 London, so speedbumps and heavy traffic will make up a large % of time in the car)
- Did it throw up any unexpected/unpleasant bills?
- Are there any options worth holding out for? Or any useless ones?
- Apart from M3Cutters and PH, where should I be looking for good examples?
- Are there any fixes that are good to look out for on a low mile example? (I read that rod bearings tend to fail as a function of mileage)
- Any experience/advice on warranties (aftermarket or BMW)?
Any advice appreciated.
Edited by C70R on Wednesday 20th November 13:03
My 2012 E92:-
- What surprised/disappointed you?
Other than engine replacement from BMW (to their credit) it's been superb. The frameless windows are annoying in frost but that's not an issue with the saloon.
- Did it throw up any unexpected/unpleasant bills?
Rod bearings went at 26k.
- Did it work as a normal car? (I live in Z2 London, so speedbumps and heavy traffic will make up a large % of time in the car)
If you used to driving a larger car in London it will be fine; I found myself using the MX-5 more around town, M3 for weekend trips.
With EDC set to lowest setting - it is bearable.
- Are there any options worth holding out for? Or any useless ones?
EDC / DCT - personally I would not go without either for town driving.
- Any experience/advice on warranties (aftermarket or BMW)?
I have an aftermarket warranty but would recommend a BMW one for peace of mind. If you want to roll the BMW dice then at least change the rod bearings if they haven't been done recently.
- What surprised/disappointed you?
Other than engine replacement from BMW (to their credit) it's been superb. The frameless windows are annoying in frost but that's not an issue with the saloon.
- Did it throw up any unexpected/unpleasant bills?
Rod bearings went at 26k.
- Did it work as a normal car? (I live in Z2 London, so speedbumps and heavy traffic will make up a large % of time in the car)
If you used to driving a larger car in London it will be fine; I found myself using the MX-5 more around town, M3 for weekend trips.
With EDC set to lowest setting - it is bearable.
- Are there any options worth holding out for? Or any useless ones?
EDC / DCT - personally I would not go without either for town driving.
- Any experience/advice on warranties (aftermarket or BMW)?
I have an aftermarket warranty but would recommend a BMW one for peace of mind. If you want to roll the BMW dice then at least change the rod bearings if they haven't been done recently.
Edited by fido on Wednesday 20th November 14:41
I had mine for about 4 years and 40k miles. It had DCT and EDC and I'd choose both if I had the option again. Insurance was surprisingly cheap at £450 fully comp. Averaged about 22mpg and the only major issue was throttle actuators which were replaced by Rebuild UK for about £600.
I probably should've kept it but wanted to scratch the M5 itch.
I probably should've kept it but wanted to scratch the M5 itch.
Loved mine. Did everything very well as a daily. Mine averaged about 23mpg overall. Never had anything go wrong, but was under BMW warranty should anything have gone pop. Sounded great even on standard pipes. Was big enough for 4 in comfort, 5 at a push. Euro jaunts with a boot full of luggage was done with ease.
The engine is a highlight. Bags of character and when you use it all, it's glorious. The chassis was pliant and EDC worked brilliantly. Would certainly recommend it, and E90 is just cooler than the E92.
The engine is a highlight. Bags of character and when you use it all, it's glorious. The chassis was pliant and EDC worked brilliantly. Would certainly recommend it, and E90 is just cooler than the E92.
I’ve had my M3 since 2011 (E92) and I love it. It hasn’t thrown any big bills but I’ve also got a BMW warranty on it too so I’m covered there. The warranty is peace of mind; my subscription makes up for all those out there that claim!
I’ve EDC on mine and it is also a manual. I’ve got the HK speakers which are decent enough.
Insurance is cheap! Less than £300 a year however, it is garaged, based in Edinburgh and does sometimes only 500 miles a year ...
It likes to drink but at 500 miles a year it probably costs me more in electricity on the trickle charger than petrol. Batteries are a bit rubbish. Mine was outside for 3 weeks while the garage was being used to store stuff for the new bathroom and it died. Got it on the recon setting on the charger and it is fine now, but it is the second battery I’ve had and it is well looked after on a CTEK charger.
I’ve EDC on mine and it is also a manual. I’ve got the HK speakers which are decent enough.
Insurance is cheap! Less than £300 a year however, it is garaged, based in Edinburgh and does sometimes only 500 miles a year ...
It likes to drink but at 500 miles a year it probably costs me more in electricity on the trickle charger than petrol. Batteries are a bit rubbish. Mine was outside for 3 weeks while the garage was being used to store stuff for the new bathroom and it died. Got it on the recon setting on the charger and it is fine now, but it is the second battery I’ve had and it is well looked after on a CTEK charger.
Had my 2013 E92 since July, having looked for a manual for several years. I don’t have EDC, but did want it but couldn’t turn this one down. Personally I don’t miss it, but then I’ve not had it, plus I have a Fiesta ST as the main daily so this seems very compliant in comparison!
I specifically wanted manual & don’t regret it at all. It is however a bit bulky in typical BMW style, in your position I’d go DCT too.
One point to consider, I live in a fairly rural area with some great B roads and rarely get the chance to exercise the S65, you need a LOT of space to do so, I’d imagine in a city it would be very frustrating.
Mines an AUC so has a warranty, can’t deny I’d be very nervous to run without, but it’s very expensive at approx £1500, about the same as getting the rod bearings done.
I specifically wanted manual & don’t regret it at all. It is however a bit bulky in typical BMW style, in your position I’d go DCT too.
One point to consider, I live in a fairly rural area with some great B roads and rarely get the chance to exercise the S65, you need a LOT of space to do so, I’d imagine in a city it would be very frustrating.
Mines an AUC so has a warranty, can’t deny I’d be very nervous to run without, but it’s very expensive at approx £1500, about the same as getting the rod bearings done.
Edited by acme on Wednesday 20th November 20:58
Not quite the same but I run an F80. Commute is out to Bucks on the A40/M40 or A404 which is fine.
Around London it is a royal PITA.
Suspension far too hard, power delivery peaky, can't see the V8 being any better.
My wife has a 440i GC, all round nicer experience to drive around London although the M3 does feel much more special.
Around London it is a royal PITA.
Suspension far too hard, power delivery peaky, can't see the V8 being any better.
My wife has a 440i GC, all round nicer experience to drive around London although the M3 does feel much more special.
Thank you everyone for the replies. It's really appreciated.
To put a slightly different slant on it, and trying somewhat to ignore the M-Power 'aura'; does anyone have experience relative to the 2017-18 M140i?
While it may lack two cylinders, and some of the 'special-ness', it makes one hell of a sensible/performance proposition.
To put a slightly different slant on it, and trying somewhat to ignore the M-Power 'aura'; does anyone have experience relative to the 2017-18 M140i?
While it may lack two cylinders, and some of the 'special-ness', it makes one hell of a sensible/performance proposition.
Had a white E90 which is funnily enough for sale on Autotrader at the moment.
- What surprised/disappointed you?
High revving engine sounds great. However it’s so fast I struggled to “get” the car until I took it to the Nurburgring/Germany.
- Did it work as a normal car? (I live in Z2 London, so speedbumps and heavy traffic will make up a large % of time in the car)
Worked absolutely fine on my daily commute which was 15 minutes of the A12. Even averages 25mpg in the summer!
- Did it throw up any unexpected/unpleasant bills?
Throttle actuator went but I took out BMW Warranty which covered it. Your biggest bills will be tyres, brakes and servicing.
- Are there any options worth holding out for? Or any useless ones?
LCI with Upgraded speakers. The standard ones are terrible. Although I understand BMW offer an Alpine retrofit kit so if it’s the right car it’s worth doing this also.
- Apart from M3Cutters and PH, where should I be looking for good examples?
Autotrader would be your best bet.
- Are there any fixes that are good to look out for on a low mile example? (I read that rod bearings tend to fail as a function of mileage)
Rod bearing replacement is mainly a cash cow for the independents and paranoid forum members. Wouldn’t worry about it as long as it’s been serviced on the button and not modified/abused.
- Any experience/advice on warranties (aftermarket or BMW)?
Go for the BMW one. It’s the best you’ll get.
- What surprised/disappointed you?
High revving engine sounds great. However it’s so fast I struggled to “get” the car until I took it to the Nurburgring/Germany.
- Did it work as a normal car? (I live in Z2 London, so speedbumps and heavy traffic will make up a large % of time in the car)
Worked absolutely fine on my daily commute which was 15 minutes of the A12. Even averages 25mpg in the summer!
- Did it throw up any unexpected/unpleasant bills?
Throttle actuator went but I took out BMW Warranty which covered it. Your biggest bills will be tyres, brakes and servicing.
- Are there any options worth holding out for? Or any useless ones?
LCI with Upgraded speakers. The standard ones are terrible. Although I understand BMW offer an Alpine retrofit kit so if it’s the right car it’s worth doing this also.
- Apart from M3Cutters and PH, where should I be looking for good examples?
Autotrader would be your best bet.
- Are there any fixes that are good to look out for on a low mile example? (I read that rod bearings tend to fail as a function of mileage)
Rod bearing replacement is mainly a cash cow for the independents and paranoid forum members. Wouldn’t worry about it as long as it’s been serviced on the button and not modified/abused.
- Any experience/advice on warranties (aftermarket or BMW)?
Go for the BMW one. It’s the best you’ll get.
C70R said:
Thank you everyone for the replies. It's really appreciated.
To put a slightly different slant on it, and trying somewhat to ignore the M-Power 'aura'; does anyone have experience relative to the 2017-18 M140i?
While it may lack two cylinders, and some of the 'special-ness', it makes one hell of a sensible/performance proposition.
I had an M240i for 10 months. If you’ve owned an M car previously you’ll be disappointed. Capable car but always felt like an 8/10s car for me.To put a slightly different slant on it, and trying somewhat to ignore the M-Power 'aura'; does anyone have experience relative to the 2017-18 M140i?
While it may lack two cylinders, and some of the 'special-ness', it makes one hell of a sensible/performance proposition.
For me the M car is all about the suspension and handling . Yes the v8 is amazing but it’s more than that for me . Also it’s very practical (4 seats big boot) - very reliable , I’ve only had one issue in over 2 years , cheap to insure . The only problem is it has a small petrol tank and could do with 3 extra gallons to give it a bit more range . I don’t think fuel economy is actually that bad for the engine and performance you get .
I had an M140 followed by an F80CP. Both used daily in urban stop-start commutes.
On the commute, the M140 was less frustrating than the M3. The latter always felt like you were riding a thoroughbred but never allowed to get above a trot. The former felt much more likea normal hatchback (which of course it is...).
Out of town, the roles reverse and the M3 came into it's own in a way the 140 couldn't. Much more of an event to drive, much faster and felt nothing like an ordinary saloon with a powerful engine.
MPG in both was similar in town, with the 140 doing mid to high 20s in urban and high teens to low 20s when caning it out of town, the M3 low to mid 20s in town and mid teens caning it. On a steady run (not hyper-miling), the 140 was much better on fuel, mid 30s easily doable, whereas the M3 would be high 20s to low 30s. I once coaxed 39mpg out the M3 by sitting at 50mph on the motorway for an hour and a half, but by God that was boring.
If I were looking for a commute car with a bit more interest than a diesel box, the M3 would be a waste and the 140 would be a sweet spot in comparison.
On the commute, the M140 was less frustrating than the M3. The latter always felt like you were riding a thoroughbred but never allowed to get above a trot. The former felt much more likea normal hatchback (which of course it is...).
Out of town, the roles reverse and the M3 came into it's own in a way the 140 couldn't. Much more of an event to drive, much faster and felt nothing like an ordinary saloon with a powerful engine.
MPG in both was similar in town, with the 140 doing mid to high 20s in urban and high teens to low 20s when caning it out of town, the M3 low to mid 20s in town and mid teens caning it. On a steady run (not hyper-miling), the 140 was much better on fuel, mid 30s easily doable, whereas the M3 would be high 20s to low 30s. I once coaxed 39mpg out the M3 by sitting at 50mph on the motorway for an hour and a half, but by God that was boring.
If I were looking for a commute car with a bit more interest than a diesel box, the M3 would be a waste and the 140 would be a sweet spot in comparison.
Just picking up on some of the comments on this thread, which have been interesting to read now I’m an owner, as oppose to the reading I did before I bought. I’m getting approx. 21 MPG – I’m mainly using on the 25 mile commute at the moment. The OBC is fairly accurate and registers 27/28 on a long motorway cruise around the legal limit, though it’s pretty short geared with approx. 3k at 70mph – I’d assume DCT is better?
Using on the commute feels very indulgent, overall the car feels massively over engined – but that’s the point, I wanted it and manual because the likes will never exist again.
If I was using as a daily (it’s a semi daily) I’d feel it was too much to be honest, I’d imagine a M240 would hit the sweet spot – appreciate many say it’s a 8/10ths car.
An interesting comment about not getting it ‘til going to the Nurberg, after 2k miles and 4 months I don’t feel I’ve scratched the surface, at normal speeds it feels like a normal 3 series frankly, it’s only when really using that engine that it seems to come alive – again not an uncommon note from owners as I understand it.
And to echo a comment above, the tank which I assume is standard 3 series is too small. Can get anywhere from 220-280 miles, the former making it rather frustraing, and mine only gets used about once per week!
As for the E90, like the W214 C63 there's no doubt the 4 door does look better with a wider more aggressive stance as compared to the coupe.
Using on the commute feels very indulgent, overall the car feels massively over engined – but that’s the point, I wanted it and manual because the likes will never exist again.
If I was using as a daily (it’s a semi daily) I’d feel it was too much to be honest, I’d imagine a M240 would hit the sweet spot – appreciate many say it’s a 8/10ths car.
An interesting comment about not getting it ‘til going to the Nurberg, after 2k miles and 4 months I don’t feel I’ve scratched the surface, at normal speeds it feels like a normal 3 series frankly, it’s only when really using that engine that it seems to come alive – again not an uncommon note from owners as I understand it.
And to echo a comment above, the tank which I assume is standard 3 series is too small. Can get anywhere from 220-280 miles, the former making it rather frustraing, and mine only gets used about once per week!
As for the E90, like the W214 C63 there's no doubt the 4 door does look better with a wider more aggressive stance as compared to the coupe.
Not sure about London commuting, although possibly this video might help you decide (although it is an E92 Competition pack).
I think it was shot slightly to the Northwest during a typical commute.....
https://youtu.be/mvZwntPld_Y
If that doesn't get you salivating nothing will!
Being serious - if you only ever drive in London you will find it quite frustrating and a bit of a pain in my opinion (although DCT helps hugely) and in city/carpy road driving it really does benefit from EDC.
I would recommend going for the Harmon Kardon or Individual HiFi (quite rare).
Mechanically mine has been extremely reliable (2012 MY, which has later/modified c/r bearings from the factory) at 40k miles now, but I am religious about warming up/down and have had most oil changes done at 5-7k mile intervals.
Make sure the running-in service (1200 miles) was done, and done before 1800 miles at the latest.
I think it was shot slightly to the Northwest during a typical commute.....
https://youtu.be/mvZwntPld_Y
If that doesn't get you salivating nothing will!
Being serious - if you only ever drive in London you will find it quite frustrating and a bit of a pain in my opinion (although DCT helps hugely) and in city/carpy road driving it really does benefit from EDC.
I would recommend going for the Harmon Kardon or Individual HiFi (quite rare).
Mechanically mine has been extremely reliable (2012 MY, which has later/modified c/r bearings from the factory) at 40k miles now, but I am religious about warming up/down and have had most oil changes done at 5-7k mile intervals.
Make sure the running-in service (1200 miles) was done, and done before 1800 miles at the latest.
Tony B2 said:
Mechanically mine has been extremely reliable (2012 MY, which has later/modified c/r bearings from the factory) at 40k miles now, but I am religious about warming up/down and have had most oil changes done at 5-7k mile intervals..
My understanding is that the overly tight tolerance in conjunction with 10W 60 and not allowing the engine to warm before exercising it is the most likely cause of the issue. Not withstanding previous owners abuse what should I be doing to mitigate?It’s pretty clear to me that the indicators around the rev counter move to max revs far too quickly, within three miles of leaving home. Should I wait til the engine temperatures almost at 100 or until the dash oil level reading is showing, or all three?!
Any suggestions or alternatives etc? Some times on my commute of A&B roads usually commuting at 40-60mph it can take quite a while to seemingly warm through, and my commutes 25 miles each way.
acme said:
It’s pretty clear to me that the indicators around the rev counter move to max revs far too quickly, within three miles of leaving home. Should I wait til the engine temperatures almost at 100 or until the dash oil level reading is showing, or all three?!
I use the oil level reading - this does not come on until around 100C (or whataver is operating temperature) - and only then do I give it full beans. Before that the oil viscosity is going to be too high - not sure what to do other than keep the load low (so not lugging the engine, but under 3k-4k).NelsonM3 said:
C70R said:
Thank you everyone for the replies. It's really appreciated.
To put a slightly different slant on it, and trying somewhat to ignore the M-Power 'aura'; does anyone have experience relative to the 2017-18 M140i?
While it may lack two cylinders, and some of the 'special-ness', it makes one hell of a sensible/performance proposition.
I had an M240i for 10 months. If you’ve owned an M car previously you’ll be disappointed. Capable car but always felt like an 8/10s car for me.To put a slightly different slant on it, and trying somewhat to ignore the M-Power 'aura'; does anyone have experience relative to the 2017-18 M140i?
While it may lack two cylinders, and some of the 'special-ness', it makes one hell of a sensible/performance proposition.
Living in Central-ish London (central enough for car ownership to be a pain in the ar5e) is a major reality check when it comes to owning a performance car.
I'm basically looking to replace our 'daily' (even though it's not used daily), and it would need to deal with all the lumps and bumps of big city car ownership rather than being a pampered toy.
Financially there's nothing that worries me about the delta between the two cars. I guess I just worry that the M3 would be significantly worse at the 'normal car' stuff (living on the street, sitting in traffic, speedbumps/potholes, tip runs etc.) such that it would ruin my enjoyment of it.
janesmith1950 said:
I had an M140 followed by an F80CP. Both used daily in urban stop-start commutes.
On the commute, the M140 was less frustrating than the M3. The latter always felt like you were riding a thoroughbred but never allowed to get above a trot. The former felt much more likea normal hatchback (which of course it is...).
Out of town, the roles reverse and the M3 came into it's own in a way the 140 couldn't. Much more of an event to drive, much faster and felt nothing like an ordinary saloon with a powerful engine.
MPG in both was similar in town, with the 140 doing mid to high 20s in urban and high teens to low 20s when caning it out of town, the M3 low to mid 20s in town and mid teens caning it. On a steady run (not hyper-miling), the 140 was much better on fuel, mid 30s easily doable, whereas the M3 would be high 20s to low 30s. I once coaxed 39mpg out the M3 by sitting at 50mph on the motorway for an hour and a half, but by God that was boring.
If I were looking for a commute car with a bit more interest than a diesel box, the M3 would be a waste and the 140 would be a sweet spot in comparison.
That's really helpful - thank you.On the commute, the M140 was less frustrating than the M3. The latter always felt like you were riding a thoroughbred but never allowed to get above a trot. The former felt much more likea normal hatchback (which of course it is...).
Out of town, the roles reverse and the M3 came into it's own in a way the 140 couldn't. Much more of an event to drive, much faster and felt nothing like an ordinary saloon with a powerful engine.
MPG in both was similar in town, with the 140 doing mid to high 20s in urban and high teens to low 20s when caning it out of town, the M3 low to mid 20s in town and mid teens caning it. On a steady run (not hyper-miling), the 140 was much better on fuel, mid 30s easily doable, whereas the M3 would be high 20s to low 30s. I once coaxed 39mpg out the M3 by sitting at 50mph on the motorway for an hour and a half, but by God that was boring.
If I were looking for a commute car with a bit more interest than a diesel box, the M3 would be a waste and the 140 would be a sweet spot in comparison.
The cars use would fall into 3 categories:
1. Pottering around Z1-3 London, running errands
2. Occasional 30-mile, rush-hour commute out of London (my OH)
3. Long drives out of town on 1 or 2 weekends a month
The balance of those concerns me that M3 ownership might disappoint more than it delights. Or that I wouldn't really be getting the benefit above an x40i for the majority of the use.
I had a manual E92 M3 with EDC and I did 10k miles in 10 months in it as my daily back in 2013, and I genuinely didn't rate it much at all in that situation. I actually preferred the E90 330d I had as a daily in comparison.
In saying that I've been very tempted with another one now at their current prices(it seems like a lot of car for the money now), and I'd definitely have one as a second car(not as a daily).
My main gripes were that day to day it just felt like any other 3 series(good or bad depending on your perspective). All the performance is at the top of the revs(therefore little opportunity to use the performance easily in the daily grind/very frustrating). The car feels heavy(1650kg) at low speeds(feels much lighter when pushing on though). The standard brakes are woeful and inspire very little confidence(all M car brakes were poor from that era though and my Z4M was the same). The standard exhaust is also far too quiet for a V8 engine in the cabin imo.
Things I really liked though were the induction noise(its very addictive!), and the car has the best chassis of any car I've had for sure.
In saying that I've been very tempted with another one now at their current prices(it seems like a lot of car for the money now), and I'd definitely have one as a second car(not as a daily).
My main gripes were that day to day it just felt like any other 3 series(good or bad depending on your perspective). All the performance is at the top of the revs(therefore little opportunity to use the performance easily in the daily grind/very frustrating). The car feels heavy(1650kg) at low speeds(feels much lighter when pushing on though). The standard brakes are woeful and inspire very little confidence(all M car brakes were poor from that era though and my Z4M was the same). The standard exhaust is also far too quiet for a V8 engine in the cabin imo.
Things I really liked though were the induction noise(its very addictive!), and the car has the best chassis of any car I've had for sure.
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