Sailing Terminology - why on earth is it so silly?!

[Snoggledog]

Fallen Angel said:

And why is it…. the crew always stick the lightest one out on the trapeze, who obviously is not making a blind bit of difference to the trim of boat so much so that when it luffs you go flying through the air with the greatest of speed and end up with a face full of sail? And it hurts :harrumph:

And then :rant on: you get shouted at for not getting off the sail quickly enough :rantoff: helloooooo, you fat gits…. you bl00dy get out on the trapeze and end up getting your hair wet :doubleharrumph:

Could be worse.. You could end up getting tea-bagged instead

In a single trapeze boat the crew is solely there to protect the helm from the waves crashing over the bow.

[markmullen]

Simpo Two said:

Much of it goes back to the early days of sail. 'Starboard', for example, is a corruption of 'steerboard' which was a large panel lowered into the water to assist steerage, like a keel. You can still see them on Thames barges.

IIRC it came from Norse boats, Port being the opposite side of the steerboard as when you berth the boat you don't want to smash the steerboard against the dock wall.

An easy way to remember Port and Starboard and nav lights is "Port is Red that is Left on the table" - it also helps with drinking etiquette.

[Snoggledog]

markmullen said:

Simpo Two said:

Much of it goes back to the early days of sail. 'Starboard', for example, is a corruption of 'steerboard' which was a large panel lowered into the water to assist steerage, like a keel. You can still see them on Thames barges.

IIRC it came from Norse boats, Port being the opposite side of the steerboard as when you berth the boat you don't want to smash the steerboard against the dock wall.

An easy way to remember Port and Starboard and nav lights is "Port is Red that is Left on the table" - it also helps with drinking etiquette.

Starboard. Right foot forward. Port. Not right foot forward was how I was always told.

[thewave]

As already said, it's to allow easy identification of many parts of a boat, usually being shouted out, perhaps in a high wind, and also could save the life of you and your crew. No room for mistakes of trying to identify one rope from another by calling one a big rope and the other a small rope.

Jib
Main

Rather than big sail rope and little sail rope, accoustically very different.

[anonymous-user]

It's no different to any other aspect of life. Why in a car is the passenger side called the "nearside" when it's actually further away from you than the "offside"

[markmullen]

garyhun said:

It's no different to any other aspect of life. Why in a car is the passenger side called the "nearside" when it's actually further away from you than the "offside"

Its near in relation to the kerb and off away from the kerb

[pistonbroak]

garyhun said:

It's no different to any other aspect of life. Why in a car is the passenger side called the "nearside" when it's actually further away from you than the "offside"

oh no. the bloody offside argument again.......

this could take all day

[anonymous-user]

markmullen said:

garyhun said:

It's no different to any other aspect of life. Why in a car is the passenger side called the "nearside" when it's actually further away from you than the "offside"

Its near in relation to the kerb and off away from the kerb

I know that .. I was just using it as an illustration of something that's not clear from initial description.

[markmullen]

garyhun said:

markmullen said:

garyhun said:

It's no different to any other aspect of life. Why in a car is the passenger side called the "nearside" when it's actually further away from you than the "offside"

Its near in relation to the kerb and off away from the kerb

I know that .. I was just using it as an illustration of something that's not clear from initial description.

Sorry mate

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Edited by markmullen on Monday 6th August 14:34

[RobM77]

markmullen said:

garyhun said:

It's no different to any other aspect of life. Why in a car is the passenger side called the "nearside" when it's actually further away from you than the "offside"

Its near in relation to the kerb and off away from the kerb

That was abandoned in motor racing ages ago though - it's all left and right these days.

[RobM77]

thewave said:

As already said, it's to allow easy identification of many parts of a boat, usually being shouted out, perhaps in a high wind, and also could save the life of you and your crew. No room for mistakes of trying to identify one rope from another by calling one a big rope and the other a small rope.

Jib
Main

Rather than big sail rope and little sail rope, accoustically very different.

Yes, I see your point. Couldn't your argument be used the other way though? If it really is a matter of life or death and you yell something at me about sheeting in a jib to avoid heeling too much to the port side, isn't there a danger that by the time I've gone "eh, what?" we're all food for giant squids?

[DOOG]

A management consultant who dislikes obscure terminology.... hmmm

A worlds first folks.....

[RobM77]

DOOG said:

A management consultant who dislikes obscure terminology.... hmmm

A worlds first folks.....

and I'm proud of it! To me the people that demand the most respect in life are the ones that understand everything from basic principles and can explain everything in basic language. David Attenborough, Adam Hart Davies and Richard Dawkins are three examples that spring to mind. I can't stand it when people hide their ignorance or try and make themselves feel more important by using obscure terms and vague descriptions. Management Consultants that use flowery language are usually just trying to sound important and justify their high fees - it's far more honourable to be entirely down to earth and justify your fee by doing a good job!

Edited by RobM77 on Monday 6th August 14:35

[dilbert]

RobM77 said:

thewave said:

As already said, it's to allow easy identification of many parts of a boat, usually being shouted out, perhaps in a high wind, and also could save the life of you and your crew. No room for mistakes of trying to identify one rope from another by calling one a big rope and the other a small rope.

Jib
Main

Rather than big sail rope and little sail rope, accoustically very different.

Yes, I see your point. Couldn't your argument be used the other way though? If it really is a matter of life or death and you yell something at me about sheeting in a jib to avoid heeling too much to the port side, isn't there a danger that by the time I've gone "eh, what?" we're all food for giant squids?

Theres one good thing about maritime signal flags...... They show up better when it's windy!
http://www.anbg.gov.au/flags/signal-meaning.html 

[RobM77]

dilbert said:

RobM77 said:

thewave said:

As already said, it's to allow easy identification of many parts of a boat, usually being shouted out, perhaps in a high wind, and also could save the life of you and your crew. No room for mistakes of trying to identify one rope from another by calling one a big rope and the other a small rope.

Jib
Main

Rather than big sail rope and little sail rope, accoustically very different.

Yes, I see your point. Couldn't your argument be used the other way though? If it really is a matter of life or death and you yell something at me about sheeting in a jib to avoid heeling too much to the port side, isn't there a danger that by the time I've gone "eh, what?" we're all food for giant squids?

Theres one good thing about maritime signal flags...... They show up better when it's windy!
http://www.anbg.gov.au/flags/signal-meaning.html 

Crikey - don't tell me there's an exam somewhere where you need to remember all those?! And to think I was stressing over my ARDS test remember yellow, black and blue!

[Snoggledog]

dilbert said:

RobM77 said:

thewave said:

As already said, it's to allow easy identification of many parts of a boat, usually being shouted out, perhaps in a high wind, and also could save the life of you and your crew. No room for mistakes of trying to identify one rope from another by calling one a big rope and the other a small rope.

Jib
Main

Rather than big sail rope and little sail rope, accoustically very different.

Yes, I see your point. Couldn't your argument be used the other way though? If it really is a matter of life or death and you yell something at me about sheeting in a jib to avoid heeling too much to the port side, isn't there a danger that by the time I've gone "eh, what?" we're all food for giant squids?

Theres one good thing about maritime signal flags...... They show up better when it's windy!
http://www.anbg.gov.au/flags/signal-meaning.html 

That's great.. I sail under M (International 14) which means that I have a doctor onboard. Er.. That's a lie. Doctor doom perhaps

[tertius]

RobM77 said:

DOOG said:

A management consultant who dislikes obscure terminology.... hmmm

A worlds first folks.....

and I'm proud of it! To me the people that demand the most respect in life are the ones that understand everything from basic principles and can explain everything in basic language. David Attenborough, Adam Hart Davies and Richard Dawkins are three examples that spring to mind. I can't stand it when people hide their ignorance or try and make themselves feel more important by using obscure terms and vague descriptions. Management Consultants that use flowery language are usually just trying to sound important and justify their high fees - it's far more honourable to be entirely down to earth and justify your fee by doing a good job!

Edited by RobM77 on Monday 6th August 14:35

But again you are drawing analogies that don't hold water (no pun intended) - this isn't about using obscure terms for the sake of sounding important - its about using accurate terms, completely understood and well defined in their environment for the purpose of clear unambiguous communication.

Which isn't to say that some people don't do that, and not having seen the programme I don't know but I can imagine they may have over-played the "weird sailing terms" card a bit, but that's more about how TV is made than sailing.

[Mahatma Bag]

RobM77 said:

thewave said:

As already said, it's to allow easy identification of many parts of a boat, usually being shouted out, perhaps in a high wind, and also could save the life of you and your crew. No room for mistakes of trying to identify one rope from another by calling one a big rope and the other a small rope.

Jib
Main

Rather than big sail rope and little sail rope, accoustically very different.

Yes, I see your point. Couldn't your argument be used the other way though? If it really is a matter of life or death and you yell something at me about sheeting in a jib to avoid heeling too much to the port side, isn't there a danger that by the time I've gone "eh, what?" we're all food for giant squids?

In my experience of yacht racing, when it's critical that somebody does something and fast, precise language is vital,

e.g. "Take a bight of the lazy guy from leeward under the foot of the sail, flake the spinny halyard, trip the pole and letterbox it"!!

Anybody guess what we want to happen here?

[RobM77]

Mahatma Bag said:

RobM77 said:

thewave said:

As already said, it's to allow easy identification of many parts of a boat, usually being shouted out, perhaps in a high wind, and also could save the life of you and your crew. No room for mistakes of trying to identify one rope from another by calling one a big rope and the other a small rope.

Jib
Main

Rather than big sail rope and little sail rope, accoustically very different.

Yes, I see your point. Couldn't your argument be used the other way though? If it really is a matter of life or death and you yell something at me about sheeting in a jib to avoid heeling too much to the port side, isn't there a danger that by the time I've gone "eh, what?" we're all food for giant squids?

In my experience of yacht racing, when it's critical that somebody does something and fast, precise language is vital,

e.g. "Take a bight of the lazy guy from leeward under the foot of the sail, flake the spinny halyard, trip the pole and letterbox it"!!

Anybody guess what we want to happen here?

Well, if the instruction was directed at me, we'd be getting very wet, would that be what you wanted?

[RobM77]

tertius said:

RobM77 said:

DOOG said:

A management consultant who dislikes obscure terminology.... hmmm

A worlds first folks.....

and I'm proud of it! To me the people that demand the most respect in life are the ones that understand everything from basic principles and can explain everything in basic language. David Attenborough, Adam Hart Davies and Richard Dawkins are three examples that spring to mind. I can't stand it when people hide their ignorance or try and make themselves feel more important by using obscure terms and vague descriptions. Management Consultants that use flowery language are usually just trying to sound important and justify their high fees - it's far more honourable to be entirely down to earth and justify your fee by doing a good job!

Edited by RobM77 on Monday 6th August 14:35

But again you are drawing analogies that don't hold water (no pun intended) - this isn't about using obscure terms for the sake of sounding important - its about using accurate terms, completely understood and well defined in their environment for the purpose of clear unambiguous communication.

Which isn't to say that some people don't do that, and not having seen the programme I don't know but I can imagine they may have over-played the "weird sailing terms" card a bit, but that's more about how TV is made than sailing.

My apologies, that was an aside about consultancy that wasn't really directed at sailing. Every sailor I've ever met knows exactly what the terms they use mean, and I wasn't suggested that they were used to make the speaker sound important etc, I was just curious.

As for the programme, they didn't make much of the terms at all, I just found that unlike the other episodes of the series this particular one had me reaching for the dictionary a lot more!