Refuelling Stations? - air and sea

[Burba]

I guess this applies to both air and sea, but you seem to see a lot of indication that their exists large refuelling ships in the middle of the seas and the same again applying for refuelling ships at high altitude.

Do they really exist? Anyone have information, links, pics?

[Stu R]

There's loads of supply ships and barges out there for the ships who don't refuel when alongside.

If you really want to see pics I'll dig a couple out, but they're really not that interesting

[dirty boy]

Saw Ross Kemp searching for pirates on Sky last night, the Navy vessel he was on refueled at sea alongside a large tanker, 200 tonnes they took on board!

[Eric Mc]

The only air to air refueling is undertaken by the military.

[Semi hemi]

Burba said:

I guess this applies to both air and sea, but you seem to see a lot of indication that their exists large refuelling ships in the middle of the seas and the same again applying for refuelling ships at high altitude.

Do they really exist? Anyone have information, links, pics?

The Dive Support Vessel I was working on back in Feruary off of West Africa bunkered at sea, quite common down there.

[dr_gn]

Eric Mc said:

The only air to air refueling is undertaken by the military.

Not strictly true if you mean that both refueller and refuelled are both military.

I was very surprised to see this company advertising in an aviation trade magazine recently:

http://www.omegaairrefueling.com/vms/

Civilian tanker for military aircraft (or any other aircraft which could be suitably equipped presumably)

Cheers.

[bobthemonkey]

They have been around for a while now.

They are used quite frequently to ease the strain on the mainstream tankers. For instance, they may cover an exercise while other assets are engaged in operations.

[ninja-lewis]

The RAF's next generation of tanker aircraft (FSTA) is supposed to be a PFI scheme rather than fully owned RAF aicraft. A civilian company will purchase, adapt and run/crew the aircraft (A330), and the RAF will buy their services on an as-required basis. They were intending to charter out the aircraft to third parties when the RAF didn't need them but that seems to have died a death.

[bobthemonkey]

ninja-lewis said:

The RAF's next generation of tanker aircraft (FSTA) is supposed to be a PFI scheme rather than fully owned RAF aicraft. A civilian company will purchase, adapt and run/crew the aircraft (A330), and the RAF will buy their services on an as-required basis. They were intending to charter out the aircraft to third parties when the RAF didn't need them but that seems to have died a death.

It's a monumentally stupid idea.

[phumy]

When i was in the RN in the 70's and on route from port to port, we would RAS (Replenish at Sea) from an Auxiliary tanker/supply ship from the RFA (Royal Fleet Auxiliary)around every 4 to 5 days, depending on what we were up to. Its important to keep a minimum of around 65 - 75% fuel and stores on board at all times just incase youre called "off-station" to get to an unforseen incident. Thats how it used to be in <pirate voice on> Them thar olden days, ooo aarrr <voice off>

And its probably much the same today, i dont hink merchant shipping has this facility, its too costly for them, i think you will find its only military who do it, as the risks of accidents are too great.

[andy400]

phumy said:

When i was in the RN in the 70's and on route from port to port, we would RAS (Replenish at Sea) from an Auxiliary tanker/supply ship from the RFA (Royal Fleet Auxiliary)around every 4 to 5 days, depending on what we were up to. Its important to keep a minimum of around 65 - 75% fuel and stores on board at all times just incase youre called "off-station" to get to an unforseen incident. Thats how it used to be in <pirate voice on> Them thar olden days, ooo aarrr <voice off>

And its probably much the same today, i dont hink merchant shipping has this facility, its too costly for them, i think you will find its only military who do it, as the risks of accidents are too great.

Much the same today. Ships on deployment will get most of their fuel at sea by RAS. Aim is never to drop below 50% - need CinC permission to do so.

Fast backdowns are fun!!

[Eric Mc]

dr_gn said:

Eric Mc said:

The only air to air refueling is undertaken by the military.

Not strictly true if you mean that both refueller and refuelled are both military.

I was very surprised to see this company advertising in an aviation trade magazine recently:

http://www.omegaairrefueling.com/vms/

Civilian tanker for military aircraft (or any other aircraft which could be suitably equipped presumably)

Cheers.

You know what I meant.

It is the military who make use of the service. Civil flying operations do not need in flight refueling.
In recent years there has been a trend for the refueling aircraft to be provided by a commercial operator - but the service is still for military use only.

I am totally against the idea - are the civilian pilots flying these aircraft subject to the same orders as their military counterparts? And would they be court martialled if they disobeyed an order?

[dr_gn]

Eric Mc said:

dr_gn said:

Eric Mc said:

The only air to air refueling is undertaken by the military.

Not strictly true if you mean that both refueller and refuelled are both military.

I was very surprised to see this company advertising in an aviation trade magazine recently:

http://www.omegaairrefueling.com/vms/

Civilian tanker for military aircraft (or any other aircraft which could be suitably equipped presumably)

Cheers.

You know what I meant.

It is the military who make use of the service. Civil flying operations do not need in flight refueling.
In recent years there has been a trend for the refueling aircraft to be provided by a commercial operator - but the service is still for military use only.

I am totally against the idea - are the civilian pilots flying these aircraft subject to the same orders as their military counterparts? And would they be court martialled if they disobeyed an order?

Yes, I know exactly what you meant. I was genuinely surprised to see an Omega advert the other day though. I'm assuming the military only use these tankers for exercises, so orders wouldn't be so much of an issue?

In theory, would it be possible for a decomissioned, privately owned jet to refuel from an Omega tanker; Vulcan, Lightning?

Cheers,

Cheers.

Edited by dr_gn on Friday 12th June 15:00

[Eric Mc]

Technically it might be possible but I doubt that any of the civil aviation regulators would clear the technique.

To be honest, there would be no need for an old, restored military jet to make use of in flight refueling.

Omega are an Irish compoany by the way - which I find slightly amusing in that the FAR now depend on the Irish for some of their services.

[anonymous-user]

Shell, BP and TESCO use converted boeing 747SP aircraft as refueling aircraft for civil aircraft crossing the Atlantic. Most airlines don't make use of the facility because it's still very expensive. It's not that well known about as there are environmental concerns regarding the impact air to air refueling has on the environment.

One of the pilots in my airline got into trouble because he was found to have made use of these refueling aircraft just to get more loyalty points when it would be cheaper for the airline if he's uploaded the fuel at Heathrow.



Here's a photo I took taking fuel from a Portuguese refueling aircraft near the Azores a while ago. I can remember who the operator was but the ACARS SATCOM receipt suggested they were linked to morrisons in some way.

Edited by el stovey on Friday 12th June 16:28

[Flanders.]

Piccy no worky.

[Eric Mc]

el stovey said:

Shell, BP and TESCO use converted boeing 747SP aircraft as refueling aircraft for civil aircraft crossing the Atlantic. Most airlines don't make use of the facility because it's still very expensive. It's not that well known about as there are environmental concerns regarding the impact air to air refueling has on the environment.

One of the pilots in my airline got into trouble because he was found to have made use of these refueling aircraft just to get more loyalty points when it would be cheaper for the airline if he's uploaded the fuel at Heathrow.



Here's a photo I took taking fuel from a Portuguese refueling aircraft near the Azores a while ago. I can remember who the operator was but the ACARS SATCOM receipt suggested they were linked to morrisons in some way.

Edited by el stovey on Friday 12th June 16:28

Shame about the picture.

I've heard that 747SPs were always a tad leaky anyway.

[IforB]

Morrisons? We had to use Tesco's in-flight refuelling. We weren't even allowed to use the 99 octane stuff. Rubbish, I'd have got another 10 bhp innit.

[thinfourth2]

Stu R said:

There's loads of supply ships and barges out there for the ships who don't refuel when alongside.

If you really want to see pics I'll dig a couple out, but they're really not that interesting

What like this



But does give some idea s to how stupidly big a VLCC is

[phumy]

thinfourth2 said:

Stu R said:

There's loads of supply ships and barges out there for the ships who don't refuel when alongside.

If you really want to see pics I'll dig a couple out, but they're really not that interesting

What like this



But does give some idea s to how stupidly big a VLCC is

Nah, theyre just playing at it, thats a bit like parking up in a layby and getting fuel from a tanker also parked. they nned to be like the real navy, doing it on the move. Imagine hossing down the motorway at NSL behind a petrol tanker and comnnecting the hose and getting your tank filled then disconnecting.