Thinking of a weekend powerboat...info/advice please!

[Monki]

Hi all!

I assume this is the right forum

We're thinking of getting a 25-40foot powerboat for weekend trips (so need to be able to sleep / cook / shower etc) around the south coast and was wondering what people on here would recommend? We're quite new to boating but I do have some minor experience from when I was 15 and used a speed boat between Moraira and Calpe in Spain on a daily basis

So I guess my questions are....

1) What sort of boat would you recommend ? We're looking at a top price of £80k and would be for sea usage around the Solent with overnight stays on a weekend. We had looked at the Sealine S34 which seemed ideal, is there anything similar ?

2) What would be a good place to go for powerboat training / dayskipper training etc? I have found a few sites such as fivestarsailing but do not know if they're any good (ie we want somewhere that will teach us correct methods rather than teaching to pass a test). We're also interested in gaining motoryacht expereince so would be looking to do that too

3) Besides the cost of the boat itself and the berth at the marina, are there any hidden costs such as annual "boat" tax and is there a boat version of the mot?

Thanks in advance, have struggled to find a useful forum besides PH but that might be due to me not knowing what to google :P

[B16JUS]

you can get a brand new glastron gs289 for that look at essex boat yards its not a powerboat but still a 5.0l

annual lift out antifoul general clean, engine service, and general marina costs water/elec etc

Edited by B16JUS on Thursday 27th August 10:10

[B16JUS]

[SeeFive]

There will be at least an annual crane out, engine service and as you are using in salt water, antifoul. This is not a cheap thing, it would be IRO £400 for the crane out, plus DIY antifouling and an engine service (in your case 2) which will run into 4 figures. You may want to leave it out for the winter to dry out which at the right marina should not cost extra. Check out the boatscrubber services for keeping the hull clean whilst in the water.

It's worth checking out the local Boat Safety Scheme examiners if you wish to have your boat inspected for seaworthiness.

Boat insurance is a must - I had mine with Haven Knox Johnson.

Keeping safety equipment in date (flares, jackets etc) is important - these things do not last forever even in their bags in the lockers.

Marina fees can be high. I had my boat originally at Port Solent with Premier Marinas. Decent enough place, good value for money with lots of restaurants and bars, but the lock was a pain in the bum in summer. Long queues in and out, and rag and stick brigade ignoring any protocol of the queue. We moved down to Gosport Marina (another Premier Marinas location) which was just acquired by premier and less celubrious at the time, but right on the exit of Portsmouth Harbour, so in 5 minutes you could untie and be in the Solent on the plane. Remember that marina fees are LOA, so if you have a tender hanging off the back, and a pulpit up front, your 34 footer can quickly turn into 40footer marina fees.

Fuel - budget for about 3/4 to 1 and 1/4 of a mile to the gallon. These things are seriously inefficient.

Courses. RYA schemes are available at all levels throughout the Solent, and "own boat" would be the way to go IMO. This lets you do the work on your own kit, and would make sense to take someone (up to 3 others typical maximum) with you who is always likely to be on board with you (your partner?) for the same daily rate. It's worth having a qualified mate for when you fall in and they have to execute MOB to get you back on board - training helps.

Sealine S34. Nice boat. Sealines can suffer osmosis like any other GRP plastic boat, so make sure you get a survey done pre-purchase by a qualified marine engineer (at 80k I guess it is a few years old and could be in the age bracket for some de-lamination). Try to make sure it has a bowthruster - there is very little of the boat in the water and a lot of freeboard - at low speed, the wind plays havoc with the bow which can be handled ok on twin throttles, but is easier with a thruster and will help your helmsman skills.

Options - Fairline Targa, BMB (Bavaria Motor Boats) are in the similar quality bracket to Sealine at that size but Fairline may stretch the budget a bit more. Personally, I would look for a Sealine f33/34 to get the added benefit of a flybridge for not much more money.

Remember, owning a boat means that this will be the last time you have £80k in your pocket. I sold mine in 2005 because I was just not getting to use it enough in the UK weather. About 5 times a year, it was a very expensive floating hotel. Instead of buying a boat, you could simply set fire to a large pile of £50 notes once a month. My next boat will be outside of the UK waters and weather to get more usage and value for money.

Finally, did Blair give up the use of red diesel for pleasure craft to the EU? Check out the price of fuel at the marina pumps and Solent fuel barges.

[dictys]

When I looked at buying a power boat earlier in the year it was the costs here that in uk put us off

Our requirements were 40 knt+, under 80, sleeps 4 and miami vice looks

The boats we looked at were 37ft and 41ft Sunseeker Tomahawks 40-50knots

Mooring on the south coast = 6-7k per year (marina berth)

Fuel: £1350 per tank which will get you around 160-300 miles depending on engine spec and speed.

Annual upkeep costs, servicing etc 1.5k

So we ended up not buying.

Now moving abroad where the fuel cost are 18p per litre and the skies are sunny!!! so will be buying a tomahawk or similar next year

[Monki]

Thanks for the suggestion B16JUS, that's actually ideal Do you know of any other boats with similar specs? Like I say, we're a bit new to the world of boating!

Seefive - Thanks for all the advice, is it possible to do the antifouling and engine servicing yourself? I usually service my own cars and so I cannot imagine a boat diesel engine been too different as essentially they have the same function? Feel free to swear at me if I am wrong

Ref: Red diesel, yep, winky and blair made sure that you can no longer use red diesel on pleasure craft, however I have heard of lots of people using biofuel so I think there are some cheaper options out there....afterall, it's eco-friendly / saves the environment and all that nonsense

Dictys: Where are you thinking of moving to? We'll probably stick in the UK for a couple of years but then thinking of a move to France or possibly Oz if my sister starts her career out there

Thanks again folks, and please feel free to add more info

Oh and is there a tax on boat usage like road tax? And is there a boating version of the mot?

Thanks

[B16JUS]

some rivers you need a river license and insurance apart from that the sea is yours to play lol service yes you can do its a engine so filters and oil is about it and again antifoul you can do yourself all to save money.

dependant how often you are going to use the boat some marinas offer a park and launch system where your boat is kept on a trailer and when you want to use it ring them and they launch it and put it on a mooring this sometimes works out cheaper

fairline and sealine make some fantastic boats but i would deff recommend if you like the look of the glastron take a look at one its nicely priced and brand new so warranty etc

have a look at sc29 sealine fantastic 29ft boat with a fold back roof so no mucking about having to store loads of canvas when in use think they might be slightly more than your budget but worth a look.

doral is another make to look at take a look here for some ideas http://www.essexboatyards.com/boats/?a%5Bname%5D=S...

glastron as a make i know from a mx175 and it never let me down and the engines ( mercury ) are bulletproof

J

Edited by B16JUS on Thursday 27th August 18:16

Edited by B16JUS on Thursday 27th August 18:18

[B16JUS]

glastron gs249 25ft version of the gs289 £50k brand new

http://www.essexboatyards.com/boats/view.php/9/Gla...

sealine s25 £40k second hand

http://www.essexboatyards.com/boats/view.php/478/S...

doral 28ft £42k second hand

http://www.essexboatyards.com/boats/view.php/417/D...

sunseeker portifino £50k second hand proper old skool

http://www.essexboatyards.com/boats/view.php/415/S...

[Rum Runner]

Monki
Call me if you like i am a chief instructor, agent for boatshed North Wales and have charter biz,and x charte skipper, qualified in yacht design and eng, so maybe able to help with some of your questions.
I have many boats on our the books that may suit your needs

Edited by Rum Runner on Tuesday 1st September 23:20

[DBSV8]

I have also been looking at similar boats like these

Mainly a Fairline Taga 34-40

I would be looking at keeping the boat in Egypt , El Gouna
looking at the website

http://www.abutig-marina.com/

It mentions
Berthing Fees & general service charges 2009
All prices in U.S. DOLLARS ($)

30 - 50m 675$ year
Fuel is around 7p litre

formalities
All boats must check into a Port of Entry to Egypt before coming to Abu Tig Marina.

Ports of Entry to Egypt are:

- Alexandria
- Port Said
- Suez (Port Tawfik)
- Sharm El Sheikh
- Taba Heights
- Hurghada
- Safaga
- Qusseir
- Port Ghalib
Documents required in Egypt:

- Port Clearance from your last Port of Call
- Ships Registration Certificate
- VHF Radio Liscence
- Insurance Certificate
- Crew List

- Ship's stamps are always good to have but not essential

N.B.: All the above should be in date (valid) and original copy
Rough Cost Estimation for Official Fees for one day up to 1 month stay: US$ 180, Cost Breakdown: Agency Fee US$ 50, Various Port Fees (calculated on LOA and tonnage), etc (US$ 43), Customs Fee (1 month) & stamps (US$ 40), Marine Inspection (US$ 20) Immigration & Police (US$ 20) Quarantine (US$ 7) plus a Visa for each Passport US$ 15.

For a longer stay, you will have to pay US$ 280 for each 4 month period, PLUS the Customs Fee on top (e.g. first 4 months add LE 250, next 4 months add LE 500 and so on). This US$ 280 includes all the various fees in Hurghada Port and the Agency fee.

Foreign flagged boats may stay up to one year from the date of arrival. After the one year boats need to be bonded for four months or leave the country for the same period. (This period is calculated from the day you entered Egypt - not the day you arrived at the marina.)

Customs Fee:
LE 250 for the first four months
LE 500 for the next four months
LE 1000 for the final four months
LE 100 for yachts staying less than one month (you can not pay month by month - either 1 month or a 4 month period).

(Egyptian Pound currently LE 5.68 to the US $ - June 07)

What would be the cost of exporting a boat to Egypt from the UK / Europe? Guessing by container ship to Port Said ?
is there any import tax ? and what is the Bonding procedure ?

thanks

Edited by DBSV8 on Sunday 30th August 16:31

[SeeFive]

Monki said:

Seefive - Thanks for all the advice, is it possible to do the antifouling and engine servicing yourself? I usually service my own cars and so I cannot imagine a boat diesel engine been too different as essentially they have the same function? Feel free to swear at me if I am wrong

Oh and is there a tax on boat usage like road tax? And is there a boating version of the mot?

Thanks

Antifouling - a bit like home decorating but far more toxic. This will be required, typically annually if your boat is to be left in salt water. No need in fresh water. To refresh the antifoul, you will need to power sand off the existing stuff without going through the gelcoat below, and reapply new coats with a roller. It is very toxic, so a coverall and mask is critical here. I used to do mine myself, about 2 days work with some drying time in there too. But typically it's February time, so a bloody cold exercise (yes, I have been under the boat in the snow - brrr!!). You will save quite a bit of money DIYing this.

Engine Service. I didn't do this myself as my boat was still pretty new and under warrantee. The thing about this is that a prospective purchaser for a boat will look for history just like buying a car. If you know diesels, then the engine should offer you no challenges, and provision of receipts for parts etc should cover it. However, the history stamp is valuable - just judging if it is worth what it costs is the hard thing depending on the age and history of your purchase. But a boat service will also include checks on electricals and things like water heating and other ancillary stuff like annual replacement of sacrificial anodes (easy if you know where they are). Also, the judgment of a professional on the seacocks condition, how long, for example and leg gaiters and other things that stop the big blue sea underneath from being a deckhand will last would have been beyond me. Perhaps you could get an engineer to appraise it, and then do the work yourself where practical.

Not so sure about the laws now, but there was no boat MOT 4 years ago. My guess is that if there was such a thing, the BSS mentioned earlier, or a derivative would form the foundation.

The other thing to remember is that topside GRP deteriorates quite badly in the sun and goes dull. You will spend quite a few weekends in the year with cutting pastes and p20000 and soap keeping the shine on your pride and joy. And any teak decking will go silver without regular maintenance through the year. But to have a gleaming boat, it's well worth the effort. It's great to be pottering around the boat, and in a pair of shorts, on the water in a nice marina when the sun is shining, it doesn't seem such hard work as polishing the car on a dull drive.

[Rum Runner]

DBSV8 said:

I have also been looking at similar boats like these

Mainly a Fairline Taga 34-40

I would be looking at keeping the boat in Egypt , El Gouna
looking at the website

http://www.abutig-marina.com/

It mentions
Berthing Fees & general service charges 2009
All prices in U.S. DOLLARS ($)

30 - 50m 675$ year
Fuel is around 7p litre

formalities
All boats must check into a Port of Entry to Egypt before coming to Abu Tig Marina.

Ports of Entry to Egypt are:

- Alexandria
- Port Said
- Suez (Port Tawfik)
- Sharm El Sheikh
- Taba Heights
- Hurghada
- Safaga
- Qusseir
- Port Ghalib
Documents required in Egypt:

- Port Clearance from your last Port of Call
- Ships Registration Certificate
- VHF Radio Liscence
- Insurance Certificate
- Crew List

- Ship's stamps are always good to have but not essential

N.B.: All the above should be in date (valid) and original copy
Rough Cost Estimation for Official Fees for one day up to 1 month stay: US$ 180, Cost Breakdown: Agency Fee US$ 50, Various Port Fees (calculated on LOA and tonnage), etc (US$ 43), Customs Fee (1 month) & stamps (US$ 40), Marine Inspection (US$ 20) Immigration & Police (US$ 20) Quarantine (US$ 7) plus a Visa for each Passport US$ 15.

For a longer stay, you will have to pay US$ 280 for each 4 month period, PLUS the Customs Fee on top (e.g. first 4 months add LE 250, next 4 months add LE 500 and so on). This US$ 280 includes all the various fees in Hurghada Port and the Agency fee.

Foreign flagged boats may stay up to one year from the date of arrival. After the one year boats need to be bonded for four months or leave the country for the same period. (This period is calculated from the day you entered Egypt - not the day you arrived at the marina.)

Customs Fee:
LE 250 for the first four months
LE 500 for the next four months
LE 1000 for the final four months
LE 100 for yachts staying less than one month (you can not pay month by month - either 1 month or a 4 month period).

(Egyptian Pound currently LE 5.68 to the US $ - June 07)

What would be the cost of exporting a boat to Egypt from the UK / Europe? Guessing by container ship to Port Said ?
is there any import tax ? and what is the Bonding procedure ?

thanks

Edited by DBSV8 on Sunday 30th August 16:31

DBSV8
I have a nice Fairline Targa 40 Skipper maintained 2002 and a 2007 about to come on the books.
http://northwales.boatshed.com/fairline_targa_40-b...

[Fishtigua]

Its not what boat you buy but how you use it.

The cabin cruisers mentioned above are fine vessles if you just use it for the 5 nice weekends a year we get in the UK. A quick blast from marina to marina, running a boat like this is a very expencive way of getting 10 days holiday.

Have a look at enclosed bridge style boats too. They may not have the Miami Vice allure but can be used almost all year round, are often better seaboats, have robust fendering (for those knocks and bangs all newbies will get), fitted with a heater and can be dried out on legs. This opens up a huge new cruising ground rather just bashing from marina to marina with all the other herd.

I find being in a marina in summertime is about as much fun as staying in a poorly run campsite but with fewer bogs.

I have been in the marine business since 1986 and my family has had boats and boatyards for almost 100 years.

[ALawson]

You could also use coppercoat as opposed to normal antifoul this is supposed to last 10 years, just needs a scrub once a year at sealift in cowes (just need to make sure the power washer agitates it enough).

Personally you need to honestly think how many times you will use it or get one that is coded and try and offset some of the running costs. Either that just charter.

I reckon our 38ft yacht costs 6k a year and that is with a 4k a year mooring at Port Solent. I agree about the lock gate there but it isn't that bad.

I would suggest getting your day skipper as a minimum or whatever the Motorboat equivalent is chartering a few boats first make sure the family/friends like it. You will also see what niggles there are with each type make of boat.

[Ayahuasca]

Rum Runner said:

Monki
Call me if you like i am a chief instructor, agent for boatshed North Wales and have charter biz, so maybe able to help with some of your questions.
I have many boats on our the books that may suit your needs.

North Wales? Are you selling the topsail schooner 'Pickle'? I check her out whenever I need some boat relief and will buy her when I win the lottery...!

[pegitt]

Monki,

If your looking for a fun boat look for a Sunseeker Superhawk 34 prob the best 34ft boat built, not a huge amount of cabin space but meets all your needs but if you want somthing with a little more space a Sealine S34/37 ~(bothe the same boat just a few changes and a name change around 2005?) again a cracking boat.

One place i would point you is to Mendez marine for training Jon was the RYA Chief Motor and Powerboat Instructor and is one of the best and highley respected trainers/skippers in the UK

Also if you want to know about cost of looking after the boat and advice contact Gary (sotonboy1977) here on PH and he will point you in the best direction

[B16JUS]

the sunseeker superhawk is a very nice boat i would think he would struggle with 80k tops biggest problem i found with them was headroom downstairs

J