Which small vocal PA?
Discussion
I may need to get a new PA system this will be mostly for vocals and perhaps keys and acoustic guitar.
Im a guitarist and putting together (yet another) covers band. This will be typical set up of electric guitar, bass, acoustic drums, keys and at least three vocal mics. We expect to play in smaller venues, pubs, small clubs etc., problem is I don’t know enough about PA systems.
As stated this will be for mainly vocals/keys. Guitar/bass will just go through their own stand alone amps, not mic or DI to PA.
What sort of wattage/output should I be looking at? 500+?
Anyone recommend a complete system including small desk?
I’ve seen this one at thomann, maybe this sort of thing?
https://www.thomann.de/pt/thomann_band_bundle_m.ht...
Thanks
Im a guitarist and putting together (yet another) covers band. This will be typical set up of electric guitar, bass, acoustic drums, keys and at least three vocal mics. We expect to play in smaller venues, pubs, small clubs etc., problem is I don’t know enough about PA systems.
As stated this will be for mainly vocals/keys. Guitar/bass will just go through their own stand alone amps, not mic or DI to PA.
What sort of wattage/output should I be looking at? 500+?
Anyone recommend a complete system including small desk?
I’ve seen this one at thomann, maybe this sort of thing?
https://www.thomann.de/pt/thomann_band_bundle_m.ht...
Thanks
languagetimothy said:
I may need to get a new PA system this will be mostly for vocals and perhaps keys and acoustic guitar.
Im a guitarist and putting together (yet another) covers band. This will be typical set up of electric guitar, bass, acoustic drums, keys and at least three vocal mics. We expect to play in smaller venues, pubs, small clubs etc., problem is I don’t know enough about PA systems.
As stated this will be for mainly vocals/keys. Guitar/bass will just go through their own stand alone amps, not mic or DI to PA.
What sort of wattage/output should I be looking at? 500+?
Anyone recommend a complete system including small desk?
I’ve seen this one at thomann, maybe this sort of thing?
https://www.thomann.de/pt/thomann_band_bundle_m.ht...
Hi.... I have an alt-country band that plays small to medium size venues. To make life easier we went completely ampless. The micro pedal world has a good range of amp sim pedals, the audience cannot tell. All pedal boards and our four mics run into a mixer with effects, which then goes out to two powered speakers and monitors. Ther system is compact, inexpensive ( in comparison) and changeable if one piece goes awry, without having to replace the whole system. The mixer is on stage at all times as it acts as an audio interface for video. Yamaha MG16 desk into Behringer Eurolive speakers and monitors. Whole lot was under a grand.
Thanks
Im a guitarist and putting together (yet another) covers band. This will be typical set up of electric guitar, bass, acoustic drums, keys and at least three vocal mics. We expect to play in smaller venues, pubs, small clubs etc., problem is I don’t know enough about PA systems.
As stated this will be for mainly vocals/keys. Guitar/bass will just go through their own stand alone amps, not mic or DI to PA.
What sort of wattage/output should I be looking at? 500+?
Anyone recommend a complete system including small desk?
I’ve seen this one at thomann, maybe this sort of thing?
https://www.thomann.de/pt/thomann_band_bundle_m.ht...
Hi.... I have an alt-country band that plays small to medium size venues. To make life easier we went completely ampless. The micro pedal world has a good range of amp sim pedals, the audience cannot tell. All pedal boards and our four mics run into a mixer with effects, which then goes out to two powered speakers and monitors. Ther system is compact, inexpensive ( in comparison) and changeable if one piece goes awry, without having to replace the whole system. The mixer is on stage at all times as it acts as an audio interface for video. Yamaha MG16 desk into Behringer Eurolive speakers and monitors. Whole lot was under a grand.
Thanks
I would echo the advice above to try really, really hard to get your guitarists to go ampless. I am generally responsible for the sound for most of the gigs I play and the difference in sound and mix quality to the front of house is astonishing if you can manage this. The worst sound always comes from gigs with old-school guitarists who insist on running to their own amps on stage and blasting everybody out of the sky. Use a decent modelling board and DI into the mixer, then run dedicated mixes to each band member (or, if monitors and/or space is an issue, you will at least need a vocal-biased monitor for the singers, and a blended mix for the rest of the band, not forgetting the drummer). My next challenge is to get everybody using IEMs but we're a way off that yet.
I can also strongly recommend that you get a modern digital mixer such as the Behringer X AIR series. Absolute game changer, again. Everybody plugs into the mixer and then get a mate with a decent ear to wander around the venue with an iPad tweaking levels and effects on the fly. Again makes a huge difference when you have somebody in control who can actually hear what you sound like as you play.
As to the actual PA - I will say that if you do all the above then the quality of the PA is the last thing you need to be worried about. So long as it has enough headroom that you aren't pushing too hard and getting distortion then the acoustics (and punters!) in your average gig venue will not allow for any real differentiation here. I would venture that a few hundred quid on Ebay will see you with a perfectly acceptable PA that will serve you well in any cover band situation.
I can also strongly recommend that you get a modern digital mixer such as the Behringer X AIR series. Absolute game changer, again. Everybody plugs into the mixer and then get a mate with a decent ear to wander around the venue with an iPad tweaking levels and effects on the fly. Again makes a huge difference when you have somebody in control who can actually hear what you sound like as you play.
As to the actual PA - I will say that if you do all the above then the quality of the PA is the last thing you need to be worried about. So long as it has enough headroom that you aren't pushing too hard and getting distortion then the acoustics (and punters!) in your average gig venue will not allow for any real differentiation here. I would venture that a few hundred quid on Ebay will see you with a perfectly acceptable PA that will serve you well in any cover band situation.
I wouldn't push them too hard to go ampless if they don't want to! However, if they do use their amps then they really should mic them up, or have them very elevated. Tilting them up isn't an option if they need to be pointing at the crowd. Pack a couple of extra mics anyway, just in case they're needed.
I recently bought a small living room PA and can pass on what I've learnt:
- 1000W peak / 500W RMS (or not too much less than that) will allow you to mic up your bassist and drummer with much less risk of burning them up at high volumes.
- Those Behringers seem rather underpowered (465W peak/150W RMS), so you may risk burning them out in a larger gig or if your drummer/bassist needs micing up.
- Not all limiters are created equal. PAs can still burn out if their limiter algorithms don't take into account the duration of load (heating). Some cheap PAs have the double-whammy of being underpowered and lacking thermal protection, making them highly susceptible to burnout.
- 12" is generally the best-selling speaker size, over 10" or 15", as it's a good compromise between frequency range and durability.
- Higher dispersion values are better, especially horizontal dispersion. My PA has an internal line array filter giving it 120 degrees horizontal dispersion, which is amazing and also justifies a lower power rating. You won't have to deafen the people right in front of the speakers for everyone else to hear.
- Given that vertical line arrays of speakers can achieve better horizontal dispersion, column PA systems have a lot going for them as an idea. I'm not familiar with them however.
- 'Active' PAs have a built in amplifier, whereas 'passive' needs a separate amplifier.
- Some PAs have multiple inputs and a built-in mixer (convenience). Won't have as many inputs as a decent desk though.
- PA sound quality can vary wildly, so please visit a guitar store to listen to some back-to-back. Try normal vs column if you can.
- Not much to say about mixers. Our cheap RCA has been ok, but some dials have recently started to sound scratchy because dust gets under them over the years. A digital mixer would not have had this issue.
If it feels like you're being pushed beyond your budget, consider used equipment but only if you can give it a good hard test first!
I recently bought a small living room PA and can pass on what I've learnt:
- 1000W peak / 500W RMS (or not too much less than that) will allow you to mic up your bassist and drummer with much less risk of burning them up at high volumes.
- Those Behringers seem rather underpowered (465W peak/150W RMS), so you may risk burning them out in a larger gig or if your drummer/bassist needs micing up.
- Not all limiters are created equal. PAs can still burn out if their limiter algorithms don't take into account the duration of load (heating). Some cheap PAs have the double-whammy of being underpowered and lacking thermal protection, making them highly susceptible to burnout.
- 12" is generally the best-selling speaker size, over 10" or 15", as it's a good compromise between frequency range and durability.
- Higher dispersion values are better, especially horizontal dispersion. My PA has an internal line array filter giving it 120 degrees horizontal dispersion, which is amazing and also justifies a lower power rating. You won't have to deafen the people right in front of the speakers for everyone else to hear.
- Given that vertical line arrays of speakers can achieve better horizontal dispersion, column PA systems have a lot going for them as an idea. I'm not familiar with them however.
- 'Active' PAs have a built in amplifier, whereas 'passive' needs a separate amplifier.
- Some PAs have multiple inputs and a built-in mixer (convenience). Won't have as many inputs as a decent desk though.
- PA sound quality can vary wildly, so please visit a guitar store to listen to some back-to-back. Try normal vs column if you can.
- Not much to say about mixers. Our cheap RCA has been ok, but some dials have recently started to sound scratchy because dust gets under them over the years. A digital mixer would not have had this issue.
If it feels like you're being pushed beyond your budget, consider used equipment but only if you can give it a good hard test first!
Thanks all for your detailed replies. I didn’t really want to go for the all Mic set up buts it’s worth considering. I’ve done it quite a few times at larger venues but then we’ve had a sound guy. I know that’s not always necessary at small gigs. in other bands, when playing in pubs for example, we just use the PA for vocals only and do a sound check to get a balance (yes, I’m the guitarist with a Fender Twin who is only allowed on “2” !)
I saw a friends band recently who had a great sound all DI or Mic and they were using in-ear monitors. All in a bar sized venue with acoustic drums.
Hmm… more research need from me.
Thanks all again.
I saw a friends band recently who had a great sound all DI or Mic and they were using in-ear monitors. All in a bar sized venue with acoustic drums.
Hmm… more research need from me.
Thanks all again.
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