Engines - Useable Power
Discussion
Hi all; Was flicking thru the net as you do on a Sunday night two weeks back, and came across the Ultima on Stigs site. My world is now totally obsessed with these cars, and as a result last week I have re-mortgaged my house and I am going to visit Ted in the next two weeks. As I am still in the budgeting stage I would prefer to allow more fundage for a "proper" engine. As I live near Heathrow, I know an engine builder called Real Steel, which is only 2 miles away. I was wondering if anyone else has used an engine by them and if so how reliability had been? Would also appreciate any comments from owners of American Speed engines, and if the dyno readings match the rated readings and claimed reliability. As I think that as 400bhp is enough useable everyday power, I was going to go down the fuel injected and n2o route, so I could add another 250 horses with “the” button. What thinks you? PS Mad Max rules :-)
Cheers, Simon
Cheers, Simon
Simon,
Glad you like the site. It seems that I'm becoming responsible for more than a few re-mortgages these days
I hope you're respective partners don't come and lynch me!!!
Anyway, obviously I was in the same boat. Real Steel seem to have a fairly good reputation, but you'll be looking at about 7k for a 350bhp turnkey engine (someone else on here has one which is where I got these figs). American Steel give you a lot for your money. The thought of importing is initially a bit off putting, but these guys REALLY know their stuff AND, perhaps more importantly, are very familiar with Ultima installations. Things like sump dimensions and carb heights all play a part and you don't want to end up paying for something that you'll have to modify to fit.
The importation side is pretty straightforward to as they're well used to sending crated engines over to the UK. Gail's started work on my monsta today as I understand it, so I'll keep you informed of the in's and out's of getting one over here.
Good luck!
Glad you like the site. It seems that I'm becoming responsible for more than a few re-mortgages these days
I hope you're respective partners don't come and lynch me!!! Anyway, obviously I was in the same boat. Real Steel seem to have a fairly good reputation, but you'll be looking at about 7k for a 350bhp turnkey engine (someone else on here has one which is where I got these figs). American Steel give you a lot for your money. The thought of importing is initially a bit off putting, but these guys REALLY know their stuff AND, perhaps more importantly, are very familiar with Ultima installations. Things like sump dimensions and carb heights all play a part and you don't want to end up paying for something that you'll have to modify to fit.
The importation side is pretty straightforward to as they're well used to sending crated engines over to the UK. Gail's started work on my monsta today as I understand it, so I'll keep you informed of the in's and out's of getting one over here.
Good luck!
Christ you gave me fright then Mr.Stig.
Had quick shooftey @ you're site, Very slick BTW I like it, and saw a name I recognised.
I thought for a second the one I had sorely misjudged one of my university lecturers, fortunately the photo evedience prove this wasn't the case.
Keep up the good work,
Mouse.
...if I had a house to remortgage...
Had quick shooftey @ you're site, Very slick BTW I like it, and saw a name I recognised.
I thought for a second the one I had sorely misjudged one of my university lecturers, fortunately the photo evedience prove this wasn't the case.
Keep up the good work,
Mouse.
...if I had a house to remortgage...
Thanks for your advice Stig, I will just have to wait an' see as to what Father Christmas has brought for you early until I make my decision. Reel Steel quoted me just over £8K this morning for a turnkey mill.
Anyway, what are you doin postin on here...shouldn't you be in the garage? he he.
Anyway, what are you doin postin on here...shouldn't you be in the garage? he he.
Potential engine suppliers.
www.beckracingengines.com
And I would love to see somebody use a little 24 heures du mans and get the street version of the C5-R corvette. It's under ls1/ls6 engines on the right.
www.katechengines.com
7 litres and 585hp naturally aspirated @ $27,000
www.beckracingengines.com
And I would love to see somebody use a little 24 heures du mans and get the street version of the C5-R corvette. It's under ls1/ls6 engines on the right.
www.katechengines.com
7 litres and 585hp naturally aspirated @ $27,000
Thanks Pib for your words of advice, I'm gonna email them to check them out. As Stig rightly points out, one advantage of using American Speed is that I know everything will fit as they are used to supplying for these cars, but for the money involved it warrants a call.
Stig, thanks for telling me what engine your going with, now I know I just have to buy a bigger one! WITH GAS ;o)
Stig, thanks for telling me what engine your going with, now I know I just have to buy a bigger one! WITH GAS ;o)
ultimasimon said: Reel Steel quoted me just over £8K this morning for a turnkey mill.
When I spoke to Real Steel they claimed Americans inflated their figures, I beleived this but ended up with the American Speed engine due to timescales.
I am now converted and anyone doubting that it doesn't produce the claimed 526Bhp should think twice as it did an 11.4 quarter on my first attempt.
500bhp in an Ultima IS an everyday usable car, the car is that good.
Probably more reliable than an Elise as well if looked after properly!
11,4 is a good time but that says more about you and the driving
It's the mph that's says how mutch horsepower the engeine is produsing..what did you have 134mph that say your car had 400rwhp on that runn nothing more or less...
It's all about he weight off the car and the mph
>> Edited by GTRmannen on Tuesday 15th October 12:48
>> Edited by GTRmannen on Tuesday 15th October 12:49
It's the mph that's says how mutch horsepower the engeine is produsing..what did you have 134mph that say your car had 400rwhp on that runn nothing more or less...
It's all about he weight off the car and the mph
>> Edited by GTRmannen on Tuesday 15th October 12:48
>> Edited by GTRmannen on Tuesday 15th October 12:49
thanks for all your replies - isn't it strange, I keep saying to myself I will collate as much information as possible from other sources so I don't have to bother Ted with all the questions, but sure enough by the time I get to Hinckley it's gonna be more like a professional interview than a day deciding which and what to buy !
Horsepower really has a lot to do with the heads that you choose. Instead of talking to engine builders, I'd talk to cylinder head manufacturers. The larger heads will rob your low end torque, but its not that big of a deal in an Ultima. Chapman, Air Flow Research, Brodix, and Edlebrock is who I'd speak to about it. I'm running AFR 210cc race heads on a 327c.i. chevy and I make 500hp. I haven't noticed any problems with low end torque even though this head is designed for larger displacement smallblocks (383-410 c.i.). Desktop Dyno 2000 is a fairly decent computer program and can be learned by someone with very little engine building knowledge. It will calculate torque,hp, and show your powerband based on your cam selection. It also has a good instruction manual 
There are other programs out there if you are a more serious engine builder-most notably Engine Analyzer Pro by Performanc Trends.
What I love about the Chevy motor, is that there is a ton of aftermarket available for this engine. There's not exactly a whole lot of mystery to this engine- in my opinion. You might want to talk to the cyl. head guys first.
Cheers!
-Mack
There are other programs out there if you are a more serious engine builder-most notably Engine Analyzer Pro by Performanc Trends.
What I love about the Chevy motor, is that there is a ton of aftermarket available for this engine. There's not exactly a whole lot of mystery to this engine- in my opinion. You might want to talk to the cyl. head guys first.
Cheers!
-Mack
I have a real steel 350HO - they were good guys to deal with (3 years ago at least) I have noticed - with some wonder - that people are putting such big lumps in Ultima's... The thing to consider is: Big motors run like dogs anywhere but the race track, are too loud to allow you on to a race track, and tend to die very quickly! My 350HO runs really sweet, gets me on any race track in the uk, uses no oil, and still makes the car go quite fast... so tell me why the need for 10,000 Horse power, after burners and twin stage rocket launchers? Ask Ted to give it large in a stock 350HO car - and see if you need to change your underpants afterwards - or not!
shithot - I hear what you're saying, but, if you read any Ultima review they're becoming synonymous with 500+ bhp figures. This alone affects the choice if for no other reason than being to 'factory' spec. and resale value.
As for 'big' engines being a pain to live with, well, that's really down to the state of tune rather than the power. In fact, getting more power out of a smaller displacement will give you a much rougher running engine than a big cc one at a lower state of tune. The exhaust noise again, has little to do with the 'size' of the engine and a lot to do with the efficiency of the silencer.
Besides, the original question has more to do with what you get for your hard earned than where it comes from and how big it is.
That's why I went for the supercharger. The engine is actually in a lower state of tune than some of the 500+ lumps (maybe less) but the blower makes up for it. In fact, the cam (which will obviously affect tickover characteristics and driveability) is not that wild really. So you get a good, low tickover (avoiding overheating problems), almost linear power with hopefully, a fair degree of reliability.
That said, I've quite happily scared people witless with a 1300cc x-flow and 69bhp
As they say, it's not what you've got - it's the way you drive it.
Of course, big power AND a decent driver, well.......
>> Edited by stig on Tuesday 15th October 14:54
As for 'big' engines being a pain to live with, well, that's really down to the state of tune rather than the power. In fact, getting more power out of a smaller displacement will give you a much rougher running engine than a big cc one at a lower state of tune. The exhaust noise again, has little to do with the 'size' of the engine and a lot to do with the efficiency of the silencer.
Besides, the original question has more to do with what you get for your hard earned than where it comes from and how big it is.
That's why I went for the supercharger. The engine is actually in a lower state of tune than some of the 500+ lumps (maybe less) but the blower makes up for it. In fact, the cam (which will obviously affect tickover characteristics and driveability) is not that wild really. So you get a good, low tickover (avoiding overheating problems), almost linear power with hopefully, a fair degree of reliability.
That said, I've quite happily scared people witless with a 1300cc x-flow and 69bhp
As they say, it's not what you've got - it's the way you drive it.
Of course, big power AND a decent driver, well.......
>> Edited by stig on Tuesday 15th October 14:54
GTRmannen said: 11,4 is a good time but that says more about you and the driving
It's the mph that's says how mutch horsepower the engeine is produsing..what did you have 134mph that say your car had 400rwhp on that runn nothing more or less...
It's all about he weight off the car and the mph
Well the yardstick is the 660bhp Mac F1 (that only weighs 150kgs more than my car) that is quoted at 11.1, I'm sure they used a better driver than me and didn't do just one run.
My genuine 360bhp 2wd cossie could only muster a 13.1 at 109mph, I doubt another 40bhp will increase its terminal by over 20mph.
In answer to sfs question:- "so tell me why the need for 10,000 Horse power, after burners and twin stage rocket launchers?" Because I can. If I could have after burners I would. I love speed. Power is a drug. Rocket launchers are even better..trafic wardens?? 
I have already been lucky enough to have a few 300hp+ cars, and wanted to have something a "tad" quicker. I had a GSXR1300R bike and still wasn't happy with the sprocketed top end. Which was in Ultima territory. I would agree with Stig's point about the resale value tho, as if you look at Autotrader, most of the second-hand Ultimas with 300ish hp are fetching less than the cars with "big" lumps in. I cannot afford to build this car at a massive loss,so it would make financial sense to spend more now and lose less then if I sell. Also if the factory demonstrators are all big mills, then that must tell me something.
Go on bolt on a nitrous kit shf, and then we won't be able to call you $hithotSLOW
I have already been lucky enough to have a few 300hp+ cars, and wanted to have something a "tad" quicker. I had a GSXR1300R bike and still wasn't happy with the sprocketed top end. Which was in Ultima territory. I would agree with Stig's point about the resale value tho, as if you look at Autotrader, most of the second-hand Ultimas with 300ish hp are fetching less than the cars with "big" lumps in. I cannot afford to build this car at a massive loss,so it would make financial sense to spend more now and lose less then if I sell. Also if the factory demonstrators are all big mills, then that must tell me something.
Go on bolt on a nitrous kit shf, and then we won't be able to call you $hithotSLOW
ultimaandy said:
GTRmannen said: 11,4 is a good time but that says more about you and the driving
It's the mph that's says how mutch horsepower the engeine is produsing..what did you have 134mph that say your car had 400rwhp on that runn nothing more or less...
It's all about he weight off the car and the mph
Well the yardstick is the 660bhp Mac F1 (that only weighs 150kgs more than my car) that is quoted at 11.1, I'm sure they used a better driver than me and didn't do just one run.
My genuine 360bhp 2wd cossie could only muster a 13.1 at 109mph, I doubt another 40bhp will increase its terminal by over 20mph.
Sorry to say it never fun to know that you are short of power but it the truth..
Amerikans mesure there horsepowers in a diffrent way....SAE and DIN
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