What amplifier do I need - new to Hi-Fi?
Discussion
My old man has recently upgraded his Hi-Fi speakers, and has gifted me his old ones. They say "Dali Suite 3.5" on the back, and a bit of googling turned up the manual / specs:
https://www.dali-speakers.com/media/3396/suite-ser...
I would like to set them up for use with my TV - mainly films and a PS4 console. I'd also like to listen to music through them occasionally, which could be done via the TV.
My question is, what amplifier do I need? I live in a flat so don't need anything absurdly powerful, but am leaning towards getting something decent enough. My TV has digital audio output only, not analogue, so I presume that is just a case of getting one of those DAC converters from Amazon?
I had a look at the website of a local place and saw this as a starting point, probably a bit more than I was planning to spend initially but I could be persuaded to get a reasonably decent one that will last as opposed to a cheap one that will break:
https://www.holburnonline.co.uk/collections/integr...
I should add that i know next to nothing about home cinema / Hi-Fi, so this is all a bit new to me. Any thoughts, or glaring omissions from the PH collective?
https://www.dali-speakers.com/media/3396/suite-ser...
I would like to set them up for use with my TV - mainly films and a PS4 console. I'd also like to listen to music through them occasionally, which could be done via the TV.
My question is, what amplifier do I need? I live in a flat so don't need anything absurdly powerful, but am leaning towards getting something decent enough. My TV has digital audio output only, not analogue, so I presume that is just a case of getting one of those DAC converters from Amazon?
I had a look at the website of a local place and saw this as a starting point, probably a bit more than I was planning to spend initially but I could be persuaded to get a reasonably decent one that will last as opposed to a cheap one that will break:
https://www.holburnonline.co.uk/collections/integr...
I should add that i know next to nothing about home cinema / Hi-Fi, so this is all a bit new to me. Any thoughts, or glaring omissions from the PH collective?
I assume the speakers you've been given are the Dali pair of floorstanders without the other surround speakers?
If so, then although the Rega IO is a good amp (Rega make some really high quality stuff) it's probably not right for you as it lacks digital inputs and is only 30w. There's a tonne of decent amps around that price point that do have more power and co-ax and optical digital inputs (so no need for an external DAC from amazon as the DAC is built in).
I'd have a look at Richer Sounds website and narrow down the amps based on budget, size, looks, digital inputs, bluetooth (if that's something that might be useful to you in the future) and DAB radio and look for something with at least 40w, preferably a bit more. I know you said you're in a flat, but 40w is still not huge and you don't want things to sound strained.
As a starter for 10, have a look at this, it offers a tonne of flexibility at a good price and even has streaming services built in for the future: https://www.richersounds.com/hi-fi/amplifiers-rece...
If so, then although the Rega IO is a good amp (Rega make some really high quality stuff) it's probably not right for you as it lacks digital inputs and is only 30w. There's a tonne of decent amps around that price point that do have more power and co-ax and optical digital inputs (so no need for an external DAC from amazon as the DAC is built in).
I'd have a look at Richer Sounds website and narrow down the amps based on budget, size, looks, digital inputs, bluetooth (if that's something that might be useful to you in the future) and DAB radio and look for something with at least 40w, preferably a bit more. I know you said you're in a flat, but 40w is still not huge and you don't want things to sound strained.
As a starter for 10, have a look at this, it offers a tonne of flexibility at a good price and even has streaming services built in for the future: https://www.richersounds.com/hi-fi/amplifiers-rece...
Edited by AndrewGP on Friday 22 January 14:29
They look like they're passive so you do need an amp.
Look in the manuals and it will tell you what sort of power your amplifier needs to drive them.
Then go look to find an amp which will output that sort of power.
Without reading the manuals I'm going to guess something up to about 100 W per channel into 8 Ohm.
Loads of options to suit your budget, but really you can't really go wrong with something from Marantz, Yamaha, or Nad etc. Try something British (ish) if you like, Arcam, Audiolab, Cambridge Audio etc.
I had (still have, it's in the loft) the previous version of this Marantz amp -
https://www.richersounds.com/promotions/sale-hi-fi...
and it is great.
Some years back I had a NAD 3020, also nice, and which is probably not as good as this -
https://www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk/p-38740-...
which is a bit cheaper
About 1 million other options for integrated amplifiers from well known brands in a reasonable price.
Assuming your TV has an optical output, you could use a more compact and cheaper things like this -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AD18-Bluetooth-Digital-De...
Don't forget to buy an optical cable too.
Or buy an AV receiver which will handle more speakers and more inputs if you want to go full on surround sound. Yamaha seem to make great AV receivers.
There are loads of Chinese made amplifiers which will accept an optical input. SMSL seems to get good reviews though.
I use a Fiio amplifier for headphones and it is fantastic.
HTH
Look in the manuals and it will tell you what sort of power your amplifier needs to drive them.
Then go look to find an amp which will output that sort of power.
Without reading the manuals I'm going to guess something up to about 100 W per channel into 8 Ohm.
Loads of options to suit your budget, but really you can't really go wrong with something from Marantz, Yamaha, or Nad etc. Try something British (ish) if you like, Arcam, Audiolab, Cambridge Audio etc.
I had (still have, it's in the loft) the previous version of this Marantz amp -
https://www.richersounds.com/promotions/sale-hi-fi...
and it is great.
Some years back I had a NAD 3020, also nice, and which is probably not as good as this -
https://www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk/p-38740-...
which is a bit cheaper
About 1 million other options for integrated amplifiers from well known brands in a reasonable price.
Assuming your TV has an optical output, you could use a more compact and cheaper things like this -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AD18-Bluetooth-Digital-De...
Don't forget to buy an optical cable too.
Or buy an AV receiver which will handle more speakers and more inputs if you want to go full on surround sound. Yamaha seem to make great AV receivers.
There are loads of Chinese made amplifiers which will accept an optical input. SMSL seems to get good reviews though.
I use a Fiio amplifier for headphones and it is fantastic.
HTH
Try one of the Yamaha RN series of amps (303, 402, 602) recent thread here -
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Optical in for sound from your TV/PS (make sure TV output set to stereo).
Will take Bluetooth from your phone and also Spotify etc from MusicCast app.
Again assuming you have only 2 floorstanding speakers - you need a different product for 5.1.
All the floorstanders look like a reasonably easy load, so should be no problem to drive.
Whatever you decide, enjoy your music/gaming.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Optical in for sound from your TV/PS (make sure TV output set to stereo).
Will take Bluetooth from your phone and also Spotify etc from MusicCast app.
Again assuming you have only 2 floorstanding speakers - you need a different product for 5.1.
All the floorstanders look like a reasonably easy load, so should be no problem to drive.
Whatever you decide, enjoy your music/gaming.
SD_1 said:
My old man has recently upgraded his Hi-Fi speakers, and has gifted me his old ones. They say "Dali Suite 3.5" on the back, and a bit of googling turned up the manual / specs:
https://www.dali-speakers.com/media/3396/suite-ser...
I would like to set them up for use with my TV - mainly films and a PS4 console. I'd also like to listen to music through them occasionally, which could be done via the TV.
My question is, what amplifier do I need? I live in a flat so don't need anything absurdly powerful, but am leaning towards getting something decent enough. My TV has digital audio output only, not analogue, so I presume that is just a case of getting one of those DAC converters from Amazon?
I had a look at the website of a local place and saw this as a starting point, probably a bit more than I was planning to spend initially but I could be persuaded to get a reasonably decent one that will last as opposed to a cheap one that will break:
https://www.holburnonline.co.uk/collections/integr...
I should add that i know next to nothing about home cinema / Hi-Fi, so this is all a bit new to me. Any thoughts, or glaring omissions from the PH collective?
The Dali manual shows the 3.5 version you have is a 4 ohm speaker so you'll need an amp which is happy to work into this lower impedance. The 3.5 is very sensitive so it doesn't need a powerful amp to make it play very loud. Dali suggests amplifiers from 30 to 200 watts.https://www.dali-speakers.com/media/3396/suite-ser...
I would like to set them up for use with my TV - mainly films and a PS4 console. I'd also like to listen to music through them occasionally, which could be done via the TV.
My question is, what amplifier do I need? I live in a flat so don't need anything absurdly powerful, but am leaning towards getting something decent enough. My TV has digital audio output only, not analogue, so I presume that is just a case of getting one of those DAC converters from Amazon?
I had a look at the website of a local place and saw this as a starting point, probably a bit more than I was planning to spend initially but I could be persuaded to get a reasonably decent one that will last as opposed to a cheap one that will break:
https://www.holburnonline.co.uk/collections/integr...
I should add that i know next to nothing about home cinema / Hi-Fi, so this is all a bit new to me. Any thoughts, or glaring omissions from the PH collective?
I can recommend one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sabaj-Bluetooth-Optical-D...
It might look like a toy but it is very good indeed. Plenty of inputs. Optical, analogue, USB and Bluetooth. Great sound quality. Plenty of very complimentary testimonials and feedback online too.
I use one in my dining room to drive a pair of Impulse H2 horn speakers. A couple of reviewers rated these as the best speakers you could buy back in the early 1990s...........the A3 amp works incredibly well with them.
Model 3.5 speakers produce 91.5dB when fed with 1Watt of power. The Sabaj A3 is rated at 80Watts in the 4 ohm load presented by the Dali 3.5 and would be capable of making them play very loud. Should be plenty for the flat
Edited by Crackie on Saturday 23 January 07:49
Thanks for all the responses, that has been a big help. One thing I should have clarified is that it is just the two big floor standing speakers. No axillary ones.
On the impedance point, is it the case that for 4 ohm speakers I need to match this impedance and get an amplifier which also is 4 ohms?
Those little ones on Amazon look very impressive - stupid question, but given that they are physically considerably smaller than say that Yamaha posted earlier, is there any significant downside? Or is it just different technology / more features?
On the impedance point, is it the case that for 4 ohm speakers I need to match this impedance and get an amplifier which also is 4 ohms?
Those little ones on Amazon look very impressive - stupid question, but given that they are physically considerably smaller than say that Yamaha posted earlier, is there any significant downside? Or is it just different technology / more features?
I have no experience of the smaller amps so cannot comment on them.
Yamaha are a well respected manufacturer
One downside of a small box for an amp is that all components are squashed together leading to potential interference - it is good to have a bigger box with more space if possible.
The Yamaha amps can also stream music without an external device (save needing to be connected to your network)
Yamaha are a well respected manufacturer
One downside of a small box for an amp is that all components are squashed together leading to potential interference - it is good to have a bigger box with more space if possible.
The Yamaha amps can also stream music without an external device (save needing to be connected to your network)
Wow, a thread on PH where everyone is in broad agreement about something (ie the Yamaha RN Amps), it'll never catch on 
SD_1 said:
On the impedance point, is it the case that for 4 ohm speakers I need to match this impedance and get an amplifier which also is 4 ohms?
The majority of amps will cope with 4 to 8 ohms, but it's always worth checking the specs. It's only really speakers lower than 4 ohms that need real care with matching an amp. The RN303D I linked to above at Richer Sounds lists it's power into 2/4/6 and 8 ohms so should be fine. There's no real need to worry about speaker impedance in the 4-8 ohm range.
The figure that should be checked is the efficiency (it's the level of sound output for a fixed input). The higher the better.
Anything 90 or above is very good.Low figures below about 85 should be avoided unless you have a very powerful amp.
All the Dalis are close or above that figure so will generally be no problem to drive even for a relatively low powered amp.
The figure that should be checked is the efficiency (it's the level of sound output for a fixed input). The higher the better.
Anything 90 or above is very good.Low figures below about 85 should be avoided unless you have a very powerful amp.
All the Dalis are close or above that figure so will generally be no problem to drive even for a relatively low powered amp.
SD_1 said:
Thanks for all the responses, that has been a big help. One thing I should have clarified is that it is just the two big floor standing speakers. No axillary ones.
On the impedance point, is it the case that for 4 ohm speakers I need to match this impedance and get an amplifier which also is 4 ohms?
Those little ones on Amazon look very impressive - stupid question, but given that they are physically considerably smaller than say that Yamaha posted earlier, is there any significant downside? Or is it just different technology / more features?
I'm a fan of Yamaha gear and use one of their amps for my TV/Cinema system; the RN series amps mentioned have a good reputation but I've not heard any of them myself.On the impedance point, is it the case that for 4 ohm speakers I need to match this impedance and get an amplifier which also is 4 ohms?
Those little ones on Amazon look very impressive - stupid question, but given that they are physically considerably smaller than say that Yamaha posted earlier, is there any significant downside? Or is it just different technology / more features?
The small unit on Amazon is still an 80watt per channel unit ( into the 4 ohm model 3.5 you have ).
It uses one of these digital amp chips which has a great reputation for sound quality. The reason i suggested it was that is seemed to fit your brief for the TV sound requirement for a very reasonable price. The 400 Amazon reviews are pretty compelling too. https://www.st.com/en/audio-ics/sta326.html#overvi...
Miserablegit said:
I have no experience of the smaller amps so cannot comment on them.
Yamaha are a well respected manufacturer
One downside of a small box for an amp is that all components are squashed together leading to potential interference - it is good to have a bigger box with more space if possible.
The Yamaha amps can also stream music without an external device (save needing to be connected to your network)
Regarding the bold..........Here's a couple of links to amps which are tiny, with components close together, but thought by some to be state of the art performance wise. There are guys on the AV forums who've binned their megabucks High End ( Krell, Mark Levinson, Audio Research ) amps for the class D. One I read about a couple of days ago is using a £100 Temple Audio Stealth to drive a £25000 pair of speakers Yamaha are a well respected manufacturer
One downside of a small box for an amp is that all components are squashed together leading to potential interference - it is good to have a bigger box with more space if possible.
The Yamaha amps can also stream music without an external device (save needing to be connected to your network)
https://www.templeaudio.net/stealth.htmlIt is a natural reaction to think these tiny amps can't possibly work as well as standard sized 430mm wide old school hi-fi gear but get past that and listen to to them with an open mind; the good ones are superb. Interference isn't an issue at all with competently designed class D and class T. The donkey work is done by multi million dollar chip companies like ST, Texas Instruments and Analog Devices.
Companies like Temple Audio know how to implement the peripheral coupling caps, coils etc which is a vital part of making class D work well. They also design good power supplies or select high quality external PSUs.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/05...
Edited by Crackie on Saturday 23 January 13:37
Crackie said:
Regarding the bold..........Here's a couple of links to amps which are tiny, with components close together, but thought by some to be state of the art performance wise. There are guys on the AV forums who've binned their megabucks High End ( Krell, Mark Levinson, Audio Research ) amps for the class D. One I read about a couple of days ago is using a £100 Temple Audio Stealth to drive a £25000 pair of speakers
https://www.templeaudio.net/stealth.html
It is a natural reaction to think these tiny amps can't possibly work as well as standard sized 430mm wide old school hi-fi gear but get past that and listen to to them with an open mind; the good ones are superb. Interference isn't an issue at all with competently designed class D and class T. The donkey work is done by multi million dollar chip companies like ST, Texas Instruments and Analog Devices.
Companies like Temple Audio know how to implement the peripheral coupling caps, coils etc which is a vital part of making class D work well. They also design good power supplies or select high quality external PSUs.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/05...
Just wondering, if its sooo good, why do the manufacturers make more expensive versions? https://www.templeaudio.net/stealth.html
It is a natural reaction to think these tiny amps can't possibly work as well as standard sized 430mm wide old school hi-fi gear but get past that and listen to to them with an open mind; the good ones are superb. Interference isn't an issue at all with competently designed class D and class T. The donkey work is done by multi million dollar chip companies like ST, Texas Instruments and Analog Devices.
Companies like Temple Audio know how to implement the peripheral coupling caps, coils etc which is a vital part of making class D work well. They also design good power supplies or select high quality external PSUs.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/05...
Edited by Crackie on Saturday 23 January 13:37
If he's driving 25k speakers with a 100 quid amp he's an idiot, either for chancing that amount of speaker on an unknown cheap amp, or because he's bought 25k speakers.
I bet he's an "influencer"
Does your TV have HDMI Arc?
If so, a Home Theatre typer receiver could be a better bet.
You connect your PS4 direct to the receiver and the tv comes out through the arc setting. HDMI CEC means the receiver turns on when the TV does, so less controls needed.
Something like the Marantz NR1510 is slimline, and has bluetooth and Spotify connect built in for music. Not as powerful as others, but if you're in a flat it should be ok.
Marantz NR1510
If so, a Home Theatre typer receiver could be a better bet.
You connect your PS4 direct to the receiver and the tv comes out through the arc setting. HDMI CEC means the receiver turns on when the TV does, so less controls needed.
Something like the Marantz NR1510 is slimline, and has bluetooth and Spotify connect built in for music. Not as powerful as others, but if you're in a flat it should be ok.
Marantz NR1510
I've played quite a bit with the various digital amps to compare to the "normal" amps I've had over the years and they do punch above their weight to some extent. They're probably worth a go for the OP - they are compact, nearly distortion free and sound good. The Dali's are easy to drive, so you won't need huge power so I'd recommend considering one of these little Class D amps or going second hand.
I have browsed this review site for about 15-20 years, I thought this amp looked like a bit of cheap fun: https://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/tpa3116_amp_e.html
If looking at second hand, you should be looking at Arcam, Rotel, Marantz and you should be able to get something decent for £100. My first amp was an Arcam 8R, I'd recommend one of these or the 7R/9.
Solid core CAT6 can also be a cost effective speaker cabling source.
I have browsed this review site for about 15-20 years, I thought this amp looked like a bit of cheap fun: https://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/tpa3116_amp_e.html
If looking at second hand, you should be looking at Arcam, Rotel, Marantz and you should be able to get something decent for £100. My first amp was an Arcam 8R, I'd recommend one of these or the 7R/9.
Solid core CAT6 can also be a cost effective speaker cabling source.
Miserablegit said:
As I say, I know nothing about these amps and haven’t heard one.
They do appear to have analogue to digital converters so even analogue signals are converted. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for them but I’ll stick with the old tech for now.
I been involved with Hi-Fi design for many years and have co-developed 4 commercial amps in the past and test measured countless class D chipsets in the process. My main active system still uses a stack of six 'conventional' Rotel power amps but there are three other systems dotted around the house which now class D. One of the class Ds is exactly the same unit as Markirl linked to in his post above; it's driving a pair of KEF Coda 7s hooked up to my son's gaming PC and sounds very good.........not just good for the money but really good, full stop.They do appear to have analogue to digital converters so even analogue signals are converted. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for them but I’ll stick with the old tech for now.
The latest class D chips are spectacularly good but I've not binned all the old kit in favour of it.
I posted a couple of links to Temple Audio gear............I've absolutely no connection with them though. Here is a review of another similarly priced but also very well respected class D amp by way of balance. https://hifipig.com/amptastic-mini-1-amplifier/
Edited by Crackie on Thursday 28th January 09:13
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