Ceiling Speakers - Advice needed
Discussion
Hello,
I'm hoping someone here can help with some advice regarding installing two pairs of ceiling speakers.
We're replacing a conservatory and will be moving over to a insulated roofed structure and a new kitchen.
I was thinking of using a streaming amp that has two zones as a source and some pretty big (8") ceiling speakers in the spots indicated in Yellow.
Question is, where can you demo ceiling speakers? How does it work with getting the cabling done? Any installers that are recommended?
Any help \ suggestions greatly appreciated.
I'm hoping someone here can help with some advice regarding installing two pairs of ceiling speakers.
We're replacing a conservatory and will be moving over to a insulated roofed structure and a new kitchen.
I was thinking of using a streaming amp that has two zones as a source and some pretty big (8") ceiling speakers in the spots indicated in Yellow.
Question is, where can you demo ceiling speakers? How does it work with getting the cabling done? Any installers that are recommended?
Any help \ suggestions greatly appreciated.
Easiest way is to be there when the builders are doing the ceiling. I just wired up mine myself. It's not hard. Builders then boarded the ceiling and plastered the walls.
I have gallo speakers in 7.2 which are cool looking and sound great for unobtrusive speakers... Funnily enough bought from plotloss on PH years ago.
A demo for ceiling speakers won't tell you that much as none are as good as a proper floor stander and your room shape and ceiling void will be very different which can totally change the sound.
Also... You'll struggle to buy a rubbish speaker these days if you spend a decent amount.
I have gallo speakers in 7.2 which are cool looking and sound great for unobtrusive speakers... Funnily enough bought from plotloss on PH years ago.
A demo for ceiling speakers won't tell you that much as none are as good as a proper floor stander and your room shape and ceiling void will be very different which can totally change the sound.
Also... You'll struggle to buy a rubbish speaker these days if you spend a decent amount.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
Easiest way is to be there when the builders are doing the ceiling. I just wired up mine myself. It's not hard. Builders then boarded the ceiling and plastered the walls.
I have gallo speakers in 7.2 which are cool looking and sound great for unobtrusive speakers... Funnily enough bought from plotloss on PH years ago.
A demo for ceiling speakers won't tell you that much as none are as good as a proper floor stander and your room shape and ceiling void will be very different which can totally change the sound.
Also... You'll struggle to buy a rubbish speaker these days if you spend a decent amount.
Cheers, I might rope in some handy mates and just do the wiring myself then. The ceiling above the kitchen might remain as is. Certainly food for thought.I have gallo speakers in 7.2 which are cool looking and sound great for unobtrusive speakers... Funnily enough bought from plotloss on PH years ago.
A demo for ceiling speakers won't tell you that much as none are as good as a proper floor stander and your room shape and ceiling void will be very different which can totally change the sound.
Also... You'll struggle to buy a rubbish speaker these days if you spend a decent amount.
Speaker wise (I know i'm on a hiding to nothing sound quality wise) I was thinking of two pairs of Monitor Audio CP-CT380-IDC being fed by a EVO 150 or something similar. Possibly overkill but meh, it's a project I want to install and forget for at least a few years.
If there is no room above those spaces I'd rather have an open back speaker that the Monitor Audio you've linked to, as you will get a deeper and warmer bass response.
If you have the space, 8" are a worthwhile improvement over 6-61/2" in-ceiling speakers.
There aren't many places to test in-ceiling speakers, and the sound can vary so much depending on installation. As others have said, you can't go wrong with the quality brands such as B&W, Monitor Audio, Origin Acoustic, Dynaudio, Sonance etc.
Much like choosing a traditional speaker the tonality and 'sound signature' of the main brands will be similar to their other products.
I'm not familiar with the Cambridge Audio product. Does it offer simple two zone control through their app, or would you be better off with a couple of seperate Sonos amps?
If you have the space, 8" are a worthwhile improvement over 6-61/2" in-ceiling speakers.
There aren't many places to test in-ceiling speakers, and the sound can vary so much depending on installation. As others have said, you can't go wrong with the quality brands such as B&W, Monitor Audio, Origin Acoustic, Dynaudio, Sonance etc.
Much like choosing a traditional speaker the tonality and 'sound signature' of the main brands will be similar to their other products.
I'm not familiar with the Cambridge Audio product. Does it offer simple two zone control through their app, or would you be better off with a couple of seperate Sonos amps?
JimexPL said:
If there is no room above those spaces I'd rather have an open back speaker that the Monitor Audio you've linked to, as you will get a deeper and warmer bass response.
If you have the space, 8" are a worthwhile improvement over 6-61/2" in-ceiling speakers.
There aren't many places to test in-ceiling speakers, and the sound can vary so much depending on installation. As others have said, you can't go wrong with the quality brands such as B&W, Monitor Audio, Origin Acoustic, Dynaudio, Sonance etc.
Much like choosing a traditional speaker the tonality and 'sound signature' of the main brands will be similar to their other products.
I'm not familiar with the Cambridge Audio product. Does it offer simple two zone control through their app, or would you be better off with a couple of seperate Sonos amps?
Got real allergies regarding SONOS, to the point I gave their stuff away and built some Raspberry Pi based streamers to replace them with. How they treated their older customers IMHO was grim. If you have the space, 8" are a worthwhile improvement over 6-61/2" in-ceiling speakers.
There aren't many places to test in-ceiling speakers, and the sound can vary so much depending on installation. As others have said, you can't go wrong with the quality brands such as B&W, Monitor Audio, Origin Acoustic, Dynaudio, Sonance etc.
Much like choosing a traditional speaker the tonality and 'sound signature' of the main brands will be similar to their other products.
I'm not familiar with the Cambridge Audio product. Does it offer simple two zone control through their app, or would you be better off with a couple of seperate Sonos amps?
Back on topic, the Cambridge Audio EVO 150 supports 2 pairs of speakers and I'm guessing they can be used independently or together. The other option would be using 2 Blusound Node amps but I'd prefer using a single unit (plus it's one item to provide power for).
I thought you had to use fire hoods? One set of speakers is above a bedroom. I think you have to use fire hoods if they're below a room that might be occupied? To be honest I figured I'd put the hoods in regardless, safety first and all that
I've never yet heard any ceiling speaker installation that's got within a country mile of my sound expectations.
If you've got the space and the money have a look at speakers like the Totem Tribes.
https://totemacoustic.com/product/tribe-i/
If you've got the space and the money have a look at speakers like the Totem Tribes.
https://totemacoustic.com/product/tribe-i/
(Opps this got a bit long - sorry)
Running speaker cable in is a piece of p*ss. Choose your point, use a mid-grade fire-rated cable and run it from speaker point to kitchen cupboard that will house your streamer/s. Dont forget you will need power and ideally a network point in said cupboard.
As has been said, in-ceilings can be a compromise, but it depends what you want from your music. Generally you can get a closer performance to an on-wall version if you go with a sealed enclosure. But the sound will be coming from above rather than in front so another compromise. Again as said, you may not have the void depth for them, and you will still need firehoods for the habitable rooms above (general rule of thumb, check with your Building Inspector)
An alternative is have your builder build you an enclosure out of the same plasterboard as the ceiling that ends up behind the speaker hole, and pad it with rockwall, this is then your fire break not the ceiling the speaker is mounted to.
One interesting option could be an angled, in-ceiling, where the whole driver unit sits at an angle to drive sound towards you rather than down. (Cheaper in ceiling have just adjustable tweeters) i use the GoldenEar HTR7000's as my centre (odd room setup) and atmos channels (in my personal GoldenEar 5.2.2 lounge system) and you genuinely wouldn't know the sound is coming from the ceiling.
So these could be a consideration especially as there is now a bigger 8000 version. But the speaker positions would need to be well in front of the MLP (Main Listening Point/Position)
For the kitchen, i wouldn't bother with anything other than a matching pair of contractor series speakers. To many hard reflective surfaces that will kill sound performance, so imo not really worth trying to hard.
Finally Steamers. I don't know of a retail streamer box that will give two independent and controllable streams, so i would check your spec. NAD & Monitor Audio both to a BlueOS installer quad streamer which then need independent amplification. Or you could just go with BlueSound Nodes, for just two zones its probably cheaper and you could get a bundle deal if you know who to ask 😉
Sorry, brain dump
Running speaker cable in is a piece of p*ss. Choose your point, use a mid-grade fire-rated cable and run it from speaker point to kitchen cupboard that will house your streamer/s. Dont forget you will need power and ideally a network point in said cupboard.
As has been said, in-ceilings can be a compromise, but it depends what you want from your music. Generally you can get a closer performance to an on-wall version if you go with a sealed enclosure. But the sound will be coming from above rather than in front so another compromise. Again as said, you may not have the void depth for them, and you will still need firehoods for the habitable rooms above (general rule of thumb, check with your Building Inspector)
An alternative is have your builder build you an enclosure out of the same plasterboard as the ceiling that ends up behind the speaker hole, and pad it with rockwall, this is then your fire break not the ceiling the speaker is mounted to.
One interesting option could be an angled, in-ceiling, where the whole driver unit sits at an angle to drive sound towards you rather than down. (Cheaper in ceiling have just adjustable tweeters) i use the GoldenEar HTR7000's as my centre (odd room setup) and atmos channels (in my personal GoldenEar 5.2.2 lounge system) and you genuinely wouldn't know the sound is coming from the ceiling.
So these could be a consideration especially as there is now a bigger 8000 version. But the speaker positions would need to be well in front of the MLP (Main Listening Point/Position)
For the kitchen, i wouldn't bother with anything other than a matching pair of contractor series speakers. To many hard reflective surfaces that will kill sound performance, so imo not really worth trying to hard.
Finally Steamers. I don't know of a retail streamer box that will give two independent and controllable streams, so i would check your spec. NAD & Monitor Audio both to a BlueOS installer quad streamer which then need independent amplification. Or you could just go with BlueSound Nodes, for just two zones its probably cheaper and you could get a bundle deal if you know who to ask 😉
Sorry, brain dump
voram said:
I've never yet heard any ceiling speaker installation that's got within a country mile of my sound expectations.
If you've got the space and the money have a look at speakers like the Totem Tribes.
https://totemacoustic.com/product/tribe-i/
Heard the Totem range at a trade show 3weeks ago and even on a show floor the soundbars and on-walls sounded stunning. They have a range of in-walls and ceilings too, i think using the same drivers. Can find out more if needed.If you've got the space and the money have a look at speakers like the Totem Tribes.
https://totemacoustic.com/product/tribe-i/
V.
Hey Vex,
Thanks for the detailed response. I'll fill in the blanks, the current space is this using the kit below:
Blusound Node 2i
Audiolab 8000S
B&W CM8's
So I'm really looking for as good a sound as I can get and accept that this space will no longer be used for "critical listening" (which is a shame) but the space is destined for a very minimalist aesthetic and I can do nought but damage limitation.
This representation doesn't really convey the stark reality that will be the "seating space" but it's a fair idea of what ceiling space I have to play with.
I read that 8" units will be much better at filling a space, interesting points on the ceiling voids, I'll chat to the builder once we're past the planning permission phase.
I'll also have a look at the totem offerings, on the streamer side of things the Cambridge Audio Evo 150 looks like a good candidate as it does manage two zones. Still looking at options.
Half tempted to do a POC and use some existing kit and wire up some speakers into existing ceiling.
Thanks for the info!
Totem seem to be the go to, these are looking like the best option for me.
Expensive but I'm not looking at constantly changing them.
Thanks for the detailed response. I'll fill in the blanks, the current space is this using the kit below:
Blusound Node 2i
Audiolab 8000S
B&W CM8's
So I'm really looking for as good a sound as I can get and accept that this space will no longer be used for "critical listening" (which is a shame) but the space is destined for a very minimalist aesthetic and I can do nought but damage limitation.
This representation doesn't really convey the stark reality that will be the "seating space" but it's a fair idea of what ceiling space I have to play with.
I read that 8" units will be much better at filling a space, interesting points on the ceiling voids, I'll chat to the builder once we're past the planning permission phase.
I'll also have a look at the totem offerings, on the streamer side of things the Cambridge Audio Evo 150 looks like a good candidate as it does manage two zones. Still looking at options.
Half tempted to do a POC and use some existing kit and wire up some speakers into existing ceiling.
Thanks for the info!
Totem seem to be the go to, these are looking like the best option for me.
Expensive but I'm not looking at constantly changing them.
Edited by T1berious on Saturday 23 October 11:15
Edited by T1berious on Sunday 24th October 10:35
Interesting thread as we're planning an extension (as mentioned in plenty of other threads!).
Our kitchen won't have any rooms above so does that mean we don't need fire hood and I can ensure there is a suitable void around the speakers?
I'm planning 2 zones as well, one over the kitchen area and the other over the dining table.
I'm considering 8" speakers, POLK RC80i get good reviews.
Do you sell them Vex?
Our kitchen won't have any rooms above so does that mean we don't need fire hood and I can ensure there is a suitable void around the speakers?
I'm planning 2 zones as well, one over the kitchen area and the other over the dining table.
I'm considering 8" speakers, POLK RC80i get good reviews.
Do you sell them Vex?
T1berious said:
Totem seem to be the go to, these are looking like the best option for me.
Expensive but I'm not looking at constantly changing them.
We do the Totems, where are you based i might be able to get you a visit to a demo suite. Expensive but I'm not looking at constantly changing them.
Edited by T1berious on Saturday 23 October 11:15
Edited by T1berious on Sunday 24th October 10:35
heisthegaffer said:
Interesting thread as we're planning an extension (as mentioned in plenty of other threads!).
Our kitchen won't have any rooms above so does that mean we don't need fire hood and I can ensure there is a suitable void around the speakers?
I'm planning 2 zones as well, one over the kitchen area and the other over the dining table.
I'm considering 8" speakers, POLK RC80i get good reviews.
Do you sell them Vex?
RC80i are a great speaker, i used to rep them to the trade.Our kitchen won't have any rooms above so does that mean we don't need fire hood and I can ensure there is a suitable void around the speakers?
I'm planning 2 zones as well, one over the kitchen area and the other over the dining table.
I'm considering 8" speakers, POLK RC80i get good reviews.
Do you sell them Vex?
Yes i can supply. Let me check out the costs during tbe week.
So suprised that Polk havent updated their design to go Bezel-less.
Personally there are plenty of better looking speakers around that now have magnetic grills that cover the whole of the speaker including the mounting bezel.
SpeakerCraft
OSD
Are two USA that instantly come to mind along with the usual suspects of Monitor Audio, KEF, B&W etc.
Link in bio if you need me.
Personally there are plenty of better looking speakers around that now have magnetic grills that cover the whole of the speaker including the mounting bezel.
SpeakerCraft
OSD
Are two USA that instantly come to mind along with the usual suspects of Monitor Audio, KEF, B&W etc.
Link in bio if you need me.
VEX said:
So suprised that Polk havent updated their design to go Bezel-less.
Personally there are plenty of better looking speakers around that now have magnetic grills that cover the whole of the speaker including the mounting bezel.
SpeakerCraft
OSD
Are two USA that instantly come to mind along with the usual suspects of Monitor Audio, KEF, B&W etc.
Link in bio if you need me.
Cheers mate.Personally there are plenty of better looking speakers around that now have magnetic grills that cover the whole of the speaker including the mounting bezel.
SpeakerCraft
OSD
Are two USA that instantly come to mind along with the usual suspects of Monitor Audio, KEF, B&W etc.
Link in bio if you need me.
I use Nuvo p3100 with definitive technology in ceiling speakers, the only reason for the choice was that I picked them up cheaply on e-bay, I have 3 of the players, each doing 3 zones.
The speakers seem pretty well made tbh, and they do disappear well, but traditional ceiling speakers are definitely just for background music rather than dedicated listening. I think that you will be very disappointed with the sound from speakers that point straight down if you are used to a decent set up.
Running the cables is easy, but a bit of a faff depending on the construction of the house. It looks from your photos that there might be an RSJ between kitchen and seating area? If so I would make sure you can get cables through before deciding on a 2 zone amp rather than 2 individual ones.
Also just bear in mind that there will already be a load of 220v AC cables up there for lights etc all wanting to run through the same places, I used some 15mm pipe lagging just to keep speaker cables separate from electric cables to minimise chance of interference, not sure if it's necessary but seemed sensible before the ceiling went up....
The speakers seem pretty well made tbh, and they do disappear well, but traditional ceiling speakers are definitely just for background music rather than dedicated listening. I think that you will be very disappointed with the sound from speakers that point straight down if you are used to a decent set up.
Running the cables is easy, but a bit of a faff depending on the construction of the house. It looks from your photos that there might be an RSJ between kitchen and seating area? If so I would make sure you can get cables through before deciding on a 2 zone amp rather than 2 individual ones.
Also just bear in mind that there will already be a load of 220v AC cables up there for lights etc all wanting to run through the same places, I used some 15mm pipe lagging just to keep speaker cables separate from electric cables to minimise chance of interference, not sure if it's necessary but seemed sensible before the ceiling went up....
garyhun said:
I wired mine myself during my renovation. As has been covered, they are a doddle to do.
I purchased Monitor Audio 265 IDC and FX with a Denon AV amp (cheers Vex) and they sound great.
I've recently fitted the same MA speakers and as mentioned they do sound great.I purchased Monitor Audio 265 IDC and FX with a Denon AV amp (cheers Vex) and they sound great.
Also fitted fire proof hoods on advice from my electrician, does everyone fit these as a matter of course ??
VEX said:
heisthegaffer said:
Interesting thread as we're planning an extension (as mentioned in plenty of other threads!).
Our kitchen won't have any rooms above so does that mean we don't need fire hood and I can ensure there is a suitable void around the speakers?
I'm planning 2 zones as well, one over the kitchen area and the other over the dining table.
I'm considering 8" speakers, POLK RC80i get good reviews.
Do you sell them Vex?
RC80i are a great speaker, i used to rep them to the trade.Our kitchen won't have any rooms above so does that mean we don't need fire hood and I can ensure there is a suitable void around the speakers?
I'm planning 2 zones as well, one over the kitchen area and the other over the dining table.
I'm considering 8" speakers, POLK RC80i get good reviews.
Do you sell them Vex?
Yes i can supply. Let me check out the costs during tbe week.
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