Help me understand my home cinema please
Discussion
I have this amplifier:
https://europe.yamaha.com/en/audio/home-audio/prod...
These front speakers:
https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STAGE+A170.html
Plus a set of 4 smaller Tannoy satellites, centre speaker and a Tannoy active sub.
I've always had if connected in a simple 5.1 mode but now I have a dedicated cinema/party room and would like to make sure I'm making the most of my setup.
These are my options:
What is the best setup for mix use: music and movie watching? I don't understand the 5.1.2 mode, why is is showing 4 front speakers?
Is bi-amp better for music? Is it worth it for music over additional 2 speakers in 7.1 mode for movies?
Also, what is the reasonable wire gauge to power these speakers? 1.5mm2 will be still OK for me to run but 2.5mm2 would be difficult. Is there even a point?
Thank you for your help
https://europe.yamaha.com/en/audio/home-audio/prod...
These front speakers:
https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STAGE+A170.html
Plus a set of 4 smaller Tannoy satellites, centre speaker and a Tannoy active sub.
I've always had if connected in a simple 5.1 mode but now I have a dedicated cinema/party room and would like to make sure I'm making the most of my setup.
These are my options:
What is the best setup for mix use: music and movie watching? I don't understand the 5.1.2 mode, why is is showing 4 front speakers?
Is bi-amp better for music? Is it worth it for music over additional 2 speakers in 7.1 mode for movies?
Also, what is the reasonable wire gauge to power these speakers? 1.5mm2 will be still OK for me to run but 2.5mm2 would be difficult. Is there even a point?
Thank you for your help
Edited by mudnomad on Tuesday 15th July 10:52
5.1.2 means a 5.1 surround sound setup (front left, centre, front right, rear left, rear right, subwoofer) plus two extra height channels at the front - that's the '.2' at the end and those are the extra speakers shown in the setup graphic.
I'm assuming that you want a dual-purpose setup for movies and music in the same room? In which case, I'd be using the JBLs as the front left and right, and the small Tannoys for all the other channels.
You could set them up in a 5.1.2 or 7.1 configuration and which one you go for depends on which sounds better to you - connect them up in both configurations and have a play. Bearing in mind though, that the extra two speakers are front height channels in a 5.1.2 setup, but in 7.1 they are centre left and right, so you'd need to re-position the extra speakers accordingly.
As to the bi-amping facility, it depends on what your ratio of music to movie listening is. If you listen to a lot more two channel, then I'd be inclined to bi-amp the Jamos and just stick with a 5.1 setup. If you prioritise movies, though, you'll get a bigger change from using the extra amplifier channels to drive the two extra surround speakers
I'm assuming that you want a dual-purpose setup for movies and music in the same room? In which case, I'd be using the JBLs as the front left and right, and the small Tannoys for all the other channels.
You could set them up in a 5.1.2 or 7.1 configuration and which one you go for depends on which sounds better to you - connect them up in both configurations and have a play. Bearing in mind though, that the extra two speakers are front height channels in a 5.1.2 setup, but in 7.1 they are centre left and right, so you'd need to re-position the extra speakers accordingly.
As to the bi-amping facility, it depends on what your ratio of music to movie listening is. If you listen to a lot more two channel, then I'd be inclined to bi-amp the Jamos and just stick with a 5.1 setup. If you prioritise movies, though, you'll get a bigger change from using the extra amplifier channels to drive the two extra surround speakers
From the sound of it, you had the 5.1 Tannoy speaker kit, but now you've added the JBLs to replace the front L & R Tannoys, so you have two Tannoy speakers surplus. The toss up then is whether to use those two extra speakers for additional surround effects, or to give the JBLs the extra power by using the Yamaha's Bi-Amp mode.
The answer depends on several factors.
The case for extra channels - Your choices here are 4x speakers at the back of the room to make 7.1, or putting the speakers at the front of the room, high up, and wider than the layout of the front stereo pair.
In a 5.1 layout, the surround speakers should be at the side of the listening position rather than firing from behind. I think that if you can't get the 5.1 surround speaker position where it should be, then it's pointless going 7.1 which is where the extra two speakers fire from behind. The user manual shows the layouts, angles and spacing.
Another factor in the 5.1 vs 7.1 decision is how much content you have that supports the extra rear channel speakers. If you're watching mostly Blu-ray and 4K disc content, then you have a fair shout that the extra channel info will be there rather than being magic'd up by the amp. Where you're mostly watching TV and streamed content, you're not going to find any real 7.1 soundtracks. 5.1 is as good as you're going to get.
The other choice here then is using those extra two speakers at the front of the room for Surround Presence duties. IMO, this is the more effective use.
Doing this means that you tap into the Dolby Atmos content from the premium streaming services, but the speakers can also be used with the DSP 3D effects (Adventure, Sci-Fi, Spectacle, Drama). Here, I think you get a better bang for your buck. If your room allows for those Front Presence speakers to be positioned 1 to 3ft (30~90cm) wider than where you have the JBLs then it really opens up the front sound stage. You'll get the benefit with ordinary 5.1 content, and of course, the speakers are going to work when you have Atmos playing as well. If you watch movies and game more than you listen to music, then I think this one is a winner.
The case for bi-amping the JBLs - Most of the benefit here is with music reproduction. If you listen more to music than you watch films/TV or game then this one is for you. Before diving in though,the positioning of those JBLs is going to be important.
To work properly as music speakers, and that means they're running without the sub because you're using Pure Direct, the JBLs need to be away from the side walls and also quite a distance forward from the front wall. I'm talking 3ft (90cm) away from the side walls and about 2ft (60cm) forward from the front wall. For a lot of people that just isn't practical. Bi-amping is going to give most of its benefits in bass reproduction. The speakers need to be far enough away from the walls that they won't bloat and boom. If they're a lot closer to the room corners, then you're better off diverting that bass energy to the sub when it's easier to control the level.
Speaker wire thickness depends on distance. The longer the speaker wires then the thicker the cable's conducts need to be to minimise power loss.
Throwing 100W through 10m of 1.5mm will lose around 5% of the power into an 8 Ohm speaker due to cable resistance. This is for pure copper, not the crappy copper coated aluminium junk (CCA). Going up to a 2.5mm cable means losing only 3%, so it's not a life-or-death difference here. At 20m, the numbers are more like 10% and 5%.
If the speakers are 6 Ohm rather than 8, then the losses mount up a bit quicker.
10m of 1.5mm = 7%
10m of 2.5mm = 4%
20m of 1.5mm = 13%
20m of 2.5mm = 8%
The mm figures are the cable cross-sectional areas for the wire bundle going to one of the two connectors.
Your JBLs are rated at 89dB for 2.83V, but at 6 Ohms impedance. That's the equivalent of a shade under 88dB for an 8 Ohm speaker, so for a 2.5-way tower they are quite power hungry. If it was me, I'd want to minimise any power losses by using 2.5mm speaker cable. It's cheaper than buying an extra power amp.
The answer depends on several factors.
The case for extra channels - Your choices here are 4x speakers at the back of the room to make 7.1, or putting the speakers at the front of the room, high up, and wider than the layout of the front stereo pair.
In a 5.1 layout, the surround speakers should be at the side of the listening position rather than firing from behind. I think that if you can't get the 5.1 surround speaker position where it should be, then it's pointless going 7.1 which is where the extra two speakers fire from behind. The user manual shows the layouts, angles and spacing.
Another factor in the 5.1 vs 7.1 decision is how much content you have that supports the extra rear channel speakers. If you're watching mostly Blu-ray and 4K disc content, then you have a fair shout that the extra channel info will be there rather than being magic'd up by the amp. Where you're mostly watching TV and streamed content, you're not going to find any real 7.1 soundtracks. 5.1 is as good as you're going to get.
The other choice here then is using those extra two speakers at the front of the room for Surround Presence duties. IMO, this is the more effective use.
Doing this means that you tap into the Dolby Atmos content from the premium streaming services, but the speakers can also be used with the DSP 3D effects (Adventure, Sci-Fi, Spectacle, Drama). Here, I think you get a better bang for your buck. If your room allows for those Front Presence speakers to be positioned 1 to 3ft (30~90cm) wider than where you have the JBLs then it really opens up the front sound stage. You'll get the benefit with ordinary 5.1 content, and of course, the speakers are going to work when you have Atmos playing as well. If you watch movies and game more than you listen to music, then I think this one is a winner.
The case for bi-amping the JBLs - Most of the benefit here is with music reproduction. If you listen more to music than you watch films/TV or game then this one is for you. Before diving in though,the positioning of those JBLs is going to be important.
To work properly as music speakers, and that means they're running without the sub because you're using Pure Direct, the JBLs need to be away from the side walls and also quite a distance forward from the front wall. I'm talking 3ft (90cm) away from the side walls and about 2ft (60cm) forward from the front wall. For a lot of people that just isn't practical. Bi-amping is going to give most of its benefits in bass reproduction. The speakers need to be far enough away from the walls that they won't bloat and boom. If they're a lot closer to the room corners, then you're better off diverting that bass energy to the sub when it's easier to control the level.
Speaker wire thickness depends on distance. The longer the speaker wires then the thicker the cable's conducts need to be to minimise power loss.
Throwing 100W through 10m of 1.5mm will lose around 5% of the power into an 8 Ohm speaker due to cable resistance. This is for pure copper, not the crappy copper coated aluminium junk (CCA). Going up to a 2.5mm cable means losing only 3%, so it's not a life-or-death difference here. At 20m, the numbers are more like 10% and 5%.
If the speakers are 6 Ohm rather than 8, then the losses mount up a bit quicker.
10m of 1.5mm = 7%
10m of 2.5mm = 4%
20m of 1.5mm = 13%
20m of 2.5mm = 8%
The mm figures are the cable cross-sectional areas for the wire bundle going to one of the two connectors.
Your JBLs are rated at 89dB for 2.83V, but at 6 Ohms impedance. That's the equivalent of a shade under 88dB for an 8 Ohm speaker, so for a 2.5-way tower they are quite power hungry. If it was me, I'd want to minimise any power losses by using 2.5mm speaker cable. It's cheaper than buying an extra power amp.
Edited by Lucid_AV on Tuesday 15th July 23:20
Edited by Lucid_AV on Tuesday 15th July 23:28
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