Panorama - Poor America
Discussion
Simpo Two said:
One is a compulsory State insurance policy, the other is voluntary if you can afford it. Lower tax in the US means you have more money to spend on such things.
We are used to 'free' everything, but there is no rule that says somebody with no money can have a £50,000 operation paid for by everybody else. As our population rises and medical treatments get more complex and more expensive, where will it end?
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934554.htmlWe are used to 'free' everything, but there is no rule that says somebody with no money can have a £50,000 operation paid for by everybody else. As our population rises and medical treatments get more complex and more expensive, where will it end?
This is 5 years out of date, but as I understand it the figures have moved in our favour somewhat.
The US government spends, as a proportion of government spending, about the same amount on healthcare as the UK. So, for the same amount of taxation, the USA gets partially socialised healthcare for the very old, the very poor, veterans, and government employees, whereas we get fully socialised healthcare, free at the point of use for everyone in the country.
If I were a US citizen I'd be incandescent with rage at this waste. But nobody wants to frame the argument in those terms over there, so it doesn't get mentioned in the media.
Wish I'd seen it.
I find the whole American idea of healthcare insane; my Sister in Law is seeing an American Girl. She simply cannot understand why She, being the daughter of middle class Italian/Americans should not be treated better, get a higher level of care than someone who's working class - the idea that care should be based on need and rather than social standing is so alien she sees it as some sort of Communist plot to take over America.
There is no doubt, as some have mentioned the delusional who can't understand why having a PS3 sitting around whilst not being able to buy food is a bit odd, but they've got working people living in tents in major US cities.
It seems to be the average American is happier living in a society where the top 0.5% have everything and screw everyone else to various degrees rather than a fairer society in exchange for the belief that one day they could become that half a percent screwing everyone else.
I find the whole American idea of healthcare insane; my Sister in Law is seeing an American Girl. She simply cannot understand why She, being the daughter of middle class Italian/Americans should not be treated better, get a higher level of care than someone who's working class - the idea that care should be based on need and rather than social standing is so alien she sees it as some sort of Communist plot to take over America.
There is no doubt, as some have mentioned the delusional who can't understand why having a PS3 sitting around whilst not being able to buy food is a bit odd, but they've got working people living in tents in major US cities.
It seems to be the average American is happier living in a society where the top 0.5% have everything and screw everyone else to various degrees rather than a fairer society in exchange for the belief that one day they could become that half a percent screwing everyone else.
P-Jay said:
Wish I'd seen it.
I find the whole American idea of healthcare insane; my Sister in Law is seeing an American Girl. She simply cannot understand why She, being the daughter of middle class Italian/Americans should not be treated better, get a higher level of care than someone who's working class - the idea that care should be based on need and rather than social standing is so alien she sees it as some sort of Communist plot to take over America.
There is no doubt, as some have mentioned the delusional who can't understand why having a PS3 sitting around whilst not being able to buy food is a bit odd, but they've got working people living in tents in major US cities.
It seems to be the average American is happier living in a society where the top 0.5% have everything and screw everyone else to various degrees rather than a fairer society in exchange for the belief that one day they could become that half a percent screwing everyone else.
THAT'S COMMIE TALK AND UN-AMERICAN!I find the whole American idea of healthcare insane; my Sister in Law is seeing an American Girl. She simply cannot understand why She, being the daughter of middle class Italian/Americans should not be treated better, get a higher level of care than someone who's working class - the idea that care should be based on need and rather than social standing is so alien she sees it as some sort of Communist plot to take over America.
There is no doubt, as some have mentioned the delusional who can't understand why having a PS3 sitting around whilst not being able to buy food is a bit odd, but they've got working people living in tents in major US cities.
It seems to be the average American is happier living in a society where the top 0.5% have everything and screw everyone else to various degrees rather than a fairer society in exchange for the belief that one day they could become that half a percent screwing everyone else.
davepoth said:
If I were a US citizen I'd be incandescent with rage at this waste.
I'd suggest the NHS could teach them a thing or two about waste.P-Jay said:
It seems to be the average American is happier living in a society where the top 0.5% have everything and screw everyone else to various degrees rather than a fairer society in exchange for the belief that one day they could become that half a percent screwing everyone else.
'Fair' sounds lovely great but does it mean giving the poor and feckless free money, free houses and free everything? As we have found to our cost in the UK, it just breeds a dependant underclass and it's getting bigger. Perhas US citizens have a more realistic view of things - if you can't afford it, you don't get it. That's why so many penniless immigrants grew to be successful - motivation. If they'd just been given money to spend on fags and a free house, they'd still be penniless.Contentious and off-message no doubt but that's the big picture IMHO.
Simpo Two said:
'Fair' sounds lovely great but does it mean giving the poor and feckless free money, free houses and free everything? As we have found to our cost in the UK, it just breeds a dependant underclass and it's getting bigger. Perhas US citizens have a more realistic view of things - if you can't afford it, you don't get it. That's why so many penniless immigrants grew to be successful - motivation. If they'd just been given money to spend on fags and a free house, they'd still be penniless.
Contentious and off-message no doubt but that's the big picture IMHO.
Certainly not, the biggest 'crime' of the current economic crisis is we're trying to fix all our problems in a crisis rather than when we had more economic room to do it, I'm not holding up the UK as the ideal, but we're a lot closer to it than the US IMHO.Contentious and off-message no doubt but that's the big picture IMHO.
One of the great problems the average Joe American has is their view is skewed by decades of political propaganda -anything that promotes a balanced society is 'un-American'. The more ruthless the better, pursuit of money and power is 'the American dream' and once you've got money you can quite morally use it to influence the powers that be, to further feed your greed to the point where people with multi-billon dollar fortunes and incomes to match pay a much lower % rate of income tax than the min-wage-slave workers. If you do get found breaking the rules the likelihood is you'll avoid jail and prison because their legal system is played like a game, but the poor can spends years in jail before a judge even looks at their case.
Simpo Two said:
davepoth said:
If I were a US citizen I'd be incandescent with rage at this waste.
I'd suggest the NHS could teach them a thing or two about waste.OECD report on US Heath expenditure said:
In 2007, the total spending for health care accounted for 16% of the country’s GDP, the highest share among the OECD and almost double the OECD average
On a per capita basis also the U.S. spent the highest with a total of $7,290 which is two-and-half times the OECD average
Despite spending the most, the U.S. provides health care coverage for only the elderly, disabled and some of the poor people
In comparison, the same amount is enough to provide universal health care insurance by the government for all citizens in other OECD countries
On a per capita basis also the U.S. spent the highest with a total of $7,290 which is two-and-half times the OECD average
Despite spending the most, the U.S. provides health care coverage for only the elderly, disabled and some of the poor people
In comparison, the same amount is enough to provide universal health care insurance by the government for all citizens in other OECD countries
P-Jay said:
the idea that care should be based on need and rather than social standing is so alien she sees it as some sort of Communist plot to take over America.
That, in a nutshell, is the historical truth of the matter.
The NHS was long regarded by the Americans as some kind of Soviet inspired plot. The Soviets have gone but the accusation remains.
im said:
P-Jay said:
the idea that care should be based on need and rather than social standing is so alien she sees it as some sort of Communist plot to take over America.
That, in a nutshell, is the historical truth of the matter.
The NHS was long regarded by the Americans as some kind of Soviet inspired plot. The Soviets have gone but the accusation remains.
The only thing that can't be argued about is that by every definition and standard available, the US taxpayer is paying enough in taxes to pay for a socialised healthcare system but isn't getting one.
Simpo Two said:
'Fair' sounds lovely great but does it mean giving the poor and feckless free money, free houses and free everything? As we have found to our cost in the UK, it just breeds a dependant underclass and it's getting bigger. Perhas US citizens have a more realistic view of things - if you can't afford it, you don't get it.
Its one thing not being able to afford a new car and no being supported by the state to get one, but its an entirely different thing where you don't get provided with basic healthcare.State supported healthcare (probably what we'd consider a staple part of a civilised nation) would not in itself lead to a dependent underclass.
Wasnt very nice to watch
but at the same time, I dont think the people interviewed are 100% victims.
I mean that one guy who had a big house with a hot tub. He was an auto repair man. Ok its a cool job and it probably earns a decent wage but to be honest it sorta sounds like they were sailing very close to the wind and hadnt made a safety net of their own. The coma patient bit was just OTT, what a joke those people are.
but at the same time, I dont think the people interviewed are 100% victims.
I mean that one guy who had a big house with a hot tub. He was an auto repair man. Ok its a cool job and it probably earns a decent wage but to be honest it sorta sounds like they were sailing very close to the wind and hadnt made a safety net of their own. The coma patient bit was just OTT, what a joke those people are.
Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff