White House Farm murders - ITV series

White House Farm murders - ITV series

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Welshbeef

49,633 posts

204 months

Friday 31st January 2020
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youngsyr said:
Welshbeef said:
Let’s look at reality.

I’d wager those poor boys were killed first possibly with only the Gran somewhere upstairs
Gran gets it next
Grandad rushes upstairs takes 4 shots falls (killer assumes dead)
Killer goes downstairs
Grandad come to and tries to get downstairs adrenaline pumping catches the killer and have a fight/wrestle the gun away fails and takes 4 more killing him.

So either the mum did it murder suicide if so she then had time to make any moves in the house and kill herself per the 2018 documentary which proves you can pull the trigger if that size and in that gun (another poster has linked a similar video)
Or it’s someone else did the killer use the phone to KO the sister after the boys were killed then killer came back to kill her.
At what point does the killer reload a single magazine with 10 bullets, twice over?
Why wouldn’t the killer have been carrying plenty of ammo?

Tyre Smoke

23,018 posts

267 months

Friday 31st January 2020
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Because if it wasn't Bamber, his sister was wearing a pocket less night dress.

And a silencer would have been needed otherwise the first shot and all hell would have broken loose.


Welshbeef

49,633 posts

204 months

Friday 31st January 2020
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
Because if it wasn't Bamber, his sister was wearing a pocket less night dress.

And a silencer would have been needed otherwise the first shot and all hell would have broken loose.
And if it was neither what then?

thebraketester

14,657 posts

144 months

Friday 31st January 2020
quotequote all
It was a complete cluster fk of an investigation let’s face it.

Nice Volvo 240 estate in the 3rd episode though :-)

youngsyr

14,742 posts

198 months

Friday 31st January 2020
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Why wouldn’t the killer have been carrying plenty of ammo?
You're missing the point: it takes time to load 10 rounds into a magazine twice.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

204 months

Friday 31st January 2020
quotequote all
youngsyr said:
Welshbeef said:
Why wouldn’t the killer have been carrying plenty of ammo?
You're missing the point: it takes time to load 10 rounds into a magazine twice.
How many builders did each victim have?

We’re the injuries enough to give time for reloading? Was the Grandad actually in the house when it started or out in the outbuilding tending to his livestock?

Was there any formal time of death verified for all victims or was the range 9pm up to 3/4am when pilidd cc’de found them?

Digger

15,139 posts

197 months

Friday 31st January 2020
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
How many builders did each victim have?

We’re the injuries enough to give time for reloading? Was the Grandad actually in the house when it started or out in the outbuilding tending to his livestock?

Was there any formal time of death verified for all victims or was the range 9pm up to 3/4am when pilidd cc’de found them?
I wish you would take the time to check your posts before hitting Submit. It is not too difficult.

The Don of Croy

6,090 posts

165 months

Friday 31st January 2020
quotequote all
thebraketester said:
It was a complete cluster fk of an investigation let’s face it.

Nice Volvo 240 estate in the 3rd episode though :-)
At last - this is PH after all. What about the Mk1 GTE? Tasty as **ck.

Mark Addy is a class act. Whether he is like the real DS isn’t important, he’s carrying this imho.

The Dad of the twins is in for a nasty surprise. Not sure how you’d deal with this. Quite incredible.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

204 months

Friday 31st January 2020
quotequote all
The Don of Croy said:
At last - this is PH after all. What about the Mk1 GTE? Tasty as **ck.

Mark Addy is a class act. Whether he is like the real DS isn’t important, he’s carrying this imho.

The Dad of the twins is in for a nasty surprise. Not sure how you’d deal with this. Quite incredible.
Agreed Mk1 GTE is lovely - wonder if it’s a PH owned car?

The Mad Monk

10,594 posts

123 months

Friday 31st January 2020
quotequote all
Digger said:
Welshbeef said:
How many builders did each victim have?

We’re the injuries enough to give time for reloading? Was the Grandad actually in the house when it started or out in the outbuilding tending to his livestock?

Was there any formal time of death verified for all victims or was the range 9pm up to 3/4am when pilidd cc’de found them?
I wish you would take the time to check your posts before hitting Submit. It is not too difficult.
He's Welsh.

He's worried about the game tomorrow against Italy.

He knows they are likely to lose.

Blue62

9,356 posts

158 months

Saturday 1st February 2020
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Just stated watching on catch up to avoid the interminable adverts. I know there’s poetic licence, but were the coppers really so incompetent? I thought Essex was highly regarded as a regional force, so are they being short changed by this drama, which I think is excellent by the way. Nice period cars, decent acting and well produced.

nonsequitur

20,083 posts

122 months

Saturday 1st February 2020
quotequote all
Blue62 said:
Just stated watching on catch up to avoid the interminable adverts. I know there’s poetic licence, but were the coppers really so incompetent? I thought Essex was highly regarded as a regional force, so are they being short changed by this drama, which I think is excellent by the way. Nice period cars, decent acting and well produced.
Agree. It does say in the opening credits that 'some scenes have been invented for dramatic purposes'. I think this is SOP for true life stories adapted for film or TV. It is primarily entertainment after all.

Derek Smith

Original Poster:

46,422 posts

254 months

Saturday 1st February 2020
quotequote all
Blue62 said:
Just stated watching on catch up to avoid the interminable adverts. I know there’s poetic licence, but were the coppers really so incompetent? I thought Essex was highly regarded as a regional force, so are they being short changed by this drama, which I think is excellent by the way. Nice period cars, decent acting and well produced.
Essex, of that period, were a mixed ability force. Some of their specialities were class of the field. For instance, firearms. We went to them to learn a thing or two. Their training department was well regarded and I'm told their traffic unit was as good as Kent's, but without the arrogance. A big improvement.

However, their CID was much the same as any other at the time. There was little supervision and checking, so much depended on the senior investigating officer. Get a good one, and you had a good enquiry.

A team used to be a reflection of the SIO, but, at least to an extent, it changed in the late 80s, some suggest generated by this case. Many forces must have felt, there but for the grace of the Lodge goes us.

The two enquiries into the Russell Bishop murders and attempt were poles apart, and not only in results.

There's oversight now, and with the technical aids, such as HOLMES, there's a sort of safety net.

With regards the silencer, in the normal event of a mass murder, a search team would have been sent in once the initial scene investigation was over. There's little that they miss.

The scene was not preserved. That was appalling. Even if it was murder/suicide, an enquiry needs to be run properly. The coroner was upset. Also, I remember scenes of crimes ten years before this having a PC stuck on the door to log anyone coming in and to stop them until the OIC of the scene gave permission to enter.

There are some negatives to the current system, but they are minor.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

204 months

Saturday 1st February 2020
quotequote all
Didn’t this happen during the era build up to the Rettondon murders and the huge drug smuggling in by light aircraft landing on farmers fields.

Any possibility the drugs he and sister were involved in got way out of control and this might have been the end result?

ClaphamGT3

11,506 posts

249 months

Saturday 1st February 2020
quotequote all
youngsyr said:
I wonder if there's not a way to discover the truth long after the fact - presumably it takes a very "unique" individual to execute an entire family of relatives, including two young boys, in cold blood, over a reasonably prolonged period (the killer reloaded at least twice).

I would hope there would be psychological markers that would indicate whether Bamber was capable of such a heinous act.

Similarly, with his sister. Just because she was schizophrenic, it doesn't mean she was necessarily prone to such acts.

I understand that Bamber is willing to undertake a lie detector test, so it would seem he truly believes himself innocent. Again, not an indication of innocence or otherwise in itself, but certainly an indication of openness to testing.
My brother was at school with Bamber. All his school mates agree that he was more than capable of it

hepy

1,320 posts

146 months

Saturday 1st February 2020
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Didn’t this happen during the era build up to the Rettondon murders and the huge drug smuggling in by light aircraft landing on farmers fields.

Any possibility the drugs he and sister were involved in got way out of control and this might have been the end result?
Rettendon was 1995. This was mid eighties.

Bernard Mahoney will probably know someone who knows something!



85Carrera

3,503 posts

243 months

Saturday 1st February 2020
quotequote all
youngsyr said:
Another line of thought that I find compelling is that the boys were executed in cold blood, which would presumably indicate that they hadn't heard anything and woken up prior to their deaths (small mercy).

That in turn would indicate that the silencer was used, at least for some of the shots. The fact that it wasn't on the rifle, or even on the same floor of the house as the sister's body, would suggest to me that it was moved after the final shooting.

If that is the case, Bamber did it.
Or, rather, someone other than his sister. Such as, for example, the cousin who knew about the window and who stood to inherit the farm with the family dead and Bamber out of the way ...

FourWheelDrift

89,523 posts

290 months

Saturday 1st February 2020
quotequote all
So who did the police see inside the house and were trying to talk to via a megaphone for two hours before Jeremy Bamber arrived?
Police logs state "Firearms teams in conversation with person in farmhouse" while it's proven he was outside.

I still say it's the sister.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

204 months

Saturday 1st February 2020
quotequote all
FourWheelDrift said:
So who did the police see inside the house and were trying to talk to via a megaphone for two hours before Jeremy Bamber arrived?
Police logs state "Firearms teams in conversation with person in farmhouse" while it's proven he was outside.

I still say it's the sister.
Bamber was outside WITH the police offficees when they saw movements inside the house

FourWheelDrift

89,523 posts

290 months

Saturday 1st February 2020
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
FourWheelDrift said:
So who did the police see inside the house and were trying to talk to via a megaphone for two hours before Jeremy Bamber arrived?
Police logs state "Firearms teams in conversation with person in farmhouse" while it's proven he was outside.

I still say it's the sister.
Bamber was outside WITH the police offficees when they saw movements inside the house
Yes, that is what I have typed.