Star Wars: The Last Jedi (CONTAINS SPOILERS)
Discussion
Guvernator said:
This is the Red Letter media review, I usually agree with a lot of their views. It's kind of long but they get a lot of it absolutely spot on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9hwGZFPSmw
+1. There's definitely a consensus forming.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9hwGZFPSmw
chris watton said:
I note that those who defend this (comparably) sub par movie with the excuse that it's 'Just for kids anyway', that's the kind of empty excuse some use when their back is against the wall and scream 'Racist' for no real reason except that that is all they have left to throw at you.
Agreed.When I wrote it was an obvious kids film with lots of whizz bangs but no story, I nearly stopped and corrected myself because some of the best films I've seen have been arguably aimed at kids but with cracking plots - Pixar stuff as a simple example.
It's not an excuse at all.
the other problem with this movie is where we left off after tfa, that film ended with ren and luke staring at each other and the rebels on a base, just after blowing up the star killer base.
we start this film with the remainder of the rebels on one cruiser and a few medical frigates, being chase by a fleet of star destroyers and snoke now on his own ridiculously oversized ship, with only enough fuel for one more jump and dispite only just blowing up the first orders biggest weapon, all hope of the rebels lost in the galaxy.
but ren and luke are still staring at each other?
Or am I missing something
we start this film with the remainder of the rebels on one cruiser and a few medical frigates, being chase by a fleet of star destroyers and snoke now on his own ridiculously oversized ship, with only enough fuel for one more jump and dispite only just blowing up the first orders biggest weapon, all hope of the rebels lost in the galaxy.
but ren and luke are still staring at each other?
Or am I missing something
C2996 said:
the other problem with this movie is where we left off after tfa, that film ended with ren and luke staring at each other and the rebels on a base, just after blowing up the star killer base.
we start this film with the remainder of the rebels on one cruiser and a few medical frigates, being chase by a fleet of star destroyers and snoke now on his own ridiculously oversized ship, with only enough fuel for one more jump and dispite only just blowing up the first orders biggest weapon, all hope of the rebels lost in the galaxy.
but ren and luke are still staring at each other?
Or am I missing something
Their is a massive glaring error that the cruiser had 18hours of fuel, but rey had 2 overnight stays at the lukes holiday home. The time line is screwed.we start this film with the remainder of the rebels on one cruiser and a few medical frigates, being chase by a fleet of star destroyers and snoke now on his own ridiculously oversized ship, with only enough fuel for one more jump and dispite only just blowing up the first orders biggest weapon, all hope of the rebels lost in the galaxy.
but ren and luke are still staring at each other?
Or am I missing something
Just watched it.
I have not read this thread since Iast posted or RLM, Georg or Kermode. Though I've seen comments of friends on FB.
My thoughts...I was definitely bored by the first two thirds. Misjudged humour...I think Disney have this idea that everything they make has to have meaningless throwaway bits to make ppl laugh every so often, like a film may bore people of they don't chuckle frequently. Overuse cheapens everything, so a genuine chortle soon gets watered down.
Felt some of the scenes/acting felt like first takes, the head of the army of the baddies is a bit OTT.
And far too much dialogue is lifted from earlier films, it doesn't sound half as good when not spoken by McDiarmid/Cushing or Guinness.
Having dais that, there were two scenes in the first two thirds that worked and drew me in...just tonally different, and then the whole thing changed and it worked and became magic and Star Wars. THe final change jarred and it really flt to me like there was more than one director or guiding hand on this.
I have to say, the first bit was so blah I had visions of the horror stories of the Solo film, as well as thinking I wouldn't waste my money on another Star Wars film. And I was a card carrying member of the LUcasfilm Fan Club too!
But after the last third, where expectations rose and what was seeming formulaic dispensed with what had come and genuinely seemed to be going somewhere new, well it as pretty damn good and the stuff with Leia and Luke, dusty, knowing what happened to Carrie.
The first bits of the film superficially were like Empire, but not really, but then (and referenced in the dialogue too) the film chose to stop imitating(where it was always weak) and decided to create, and thank goodness.
Rey had some pretty weak takes in earlier scenes and I was again thinking, she wasn't much cop, but she upped her game later on. Driver was excellent all throughout.
Now to read this thread.
edit to add, there were funny bits and jokes in the last third, but they felt earned and had weight.
I have not read this thread since Iast posted or RLM, Georg or Kermode. Though I've seen comments of friends on FB.
My thoughts...I was definitely bored by the first two thirds. Misjudged humour...I think Disney have this idea that everything they make has to have meaningless throwaway bits to make ppl laugh every so often, like a film may bore people of they don't chuckle frequently. Overuse cheapens everything, so a genuine chortle soon gets watered down.
Felt some of the scenes/acting felt like first takes, the head of the army of the baddies is a bit OTT.
And far too much dialogue is lifted from earlier films, it doesn't sound half as good when not spoken by McDiarmid/Cushing or Guinness.
Having dais that, there were two scenes in the first two thirds that worked and drew me in...just tonally different, and then the whole thing changed and it worked and became magic and Star Wars. THe final change jarred and it really flt to me like there was more than one director or guiding hand on this.
I have to say, the first bit was so blah I had visions of the horror stories of the Solo film, as well as thinking I wouldn't waste my money on another Star Wars film. And I was a card carrying member of the LUcasfilm Fan Club too!
But after the last third, where expectations rose and what was seeming formulaic dispensed with what had come and genuinely seemed to be going somewhere new, well it as pretty damn good and the stuff with Leia and Luke, dusty, knowing what happened to Carrie.The first bits of the film superficially were like Empire, but not really, but then (and referenced in the dialogue too) the film chose to stop imitating(where it was always weak) and decided to create, and thank goodness.
Rey had some pretty weak takes in earlier scenes and I was again thinking, she wasn't much cop, but she upped her game later on. Driver was excellent all throughout.
Now to read this thread.
edit to add, there were funny bits and jokes in the last third, but they felt earned and had weight.
ukaskew said:
I also found it quite jarring how forced some of the humour was. I have no qualms with Star Wars doing humour, it’s an important part of it, but so much of it simply didn’t feel earned. TFA had moments that felt pretty natural (such as Finn and Rey playing off one another) but I thought TLJ had some really misjudged moments (particularly one with Luke near the end).
Which one?justinio said:
Foliage said:
Their is a massive glaring error that the cruiser had 18hours of fuel, but Rey had 2 overnight stays at Luke's holiday home. The time line is screwed.
You're assuming of course that Luke's planet has 24 hour days.Seeing as this film borrowed a lot from Empire Strikes Back I can imagine the final film will have a second improved Starkiller type base, some sort of speeder bike chase and of course a final battle between Rey and Kylo. I think Benicio Del Toro's character will end up in some gangster den reminiscent of Jabba the Hutt's palace.
Like others have said, I came out thinking it wasnt a bad film, but something wasnt right enough for it to be a good film. I much preferred Force Awakens to this. So many nods to Empire Strikes back, such as Rebels being chased from their base, main heroes split up to follow their own stories. Luke's Island could have been Dagobah, hell it even had his X-wing submerged under the water. Batlle on the salt covered plain was so much like the battle of Hoth. Rey being challenged like Luke had in a dark mysterious place. It was interesting to note that Rey had nicked the Jedi texts and stashed them on the Falcon.
Like others have said, I came out thinking it wasnt a bad film, but something wasnt right enough for it to be a good film. I much preferred Force Awakens to this. So many nods to Empire Strikes back, such as Rebels being chased from their base, main heroes split up to follow their own stories. Luke's Island could have been Dagobah, hell it even had his X-wing submerged under the water. Batlle on the salt covered plain was so much like the battle of Hoth. Rey being challenged like Luke had in a dark mysterious place. It was interesting to note that Rey had nicked the Jedi texts and stashed them on the Falcon.
Some situational humour is acceptable but the "on hold" scene actually had me cringing. I'm guessing they were going for the Han talks to the prison supervisor angle from ANH but that was to a faceless nobody and actually fit in with the story.
Undermining one of the main bad guys, not once but repeatedly so that he goes from being a credible threat in TFA to comedy sidekick material is just one of many many bad decisions in this film.
Comedy bad guys, you can tell this ship is being well and truly steered by Disney now.
Undermining one of the main bad guys, not once but repeatedly so that he goes from being a credible threat in TFA to comedy sidekick material is just one of many many bad decisions in this film.
Comedy bad guys, you can tell this ship is being well and truly steered by Disney now.
ukaskew said:
Halb said:
Which one?
Brushing his shoulder after taking fire. Not as bad as the 'on hold' bit (or Hux in general) but not good.TFA nailed the humour (little bits like the stormtroopers turning back when they hear Kylo having a hissy fit), TLJ just didn't.
I agree with another poster earlier around a lot of things in this film being to "earth based". The On hold joke, laser sword, God reference. That was very jarring. The on hold bit was terrible. I'm sat in the cinema wondering if a long time a go in a galaxy far far away they have to deal with automated phone systems to report a problem with their spaceship to the dealership. It would have worked better if they had used it as being a pretend bad communication line only. It would have been funny, but more subtle and in keeping with the setting.
Chemical Ali said:
Weak link? If only it were so. With PM there was always the next film, with this just about everyone has died a pointless death so the next film really needs to start from scratch. That I guess I can eventually understand, but give their demise meaning at least. I mean Snoke may as well have choked to death on piece of steak in the death star canteen and Luke in a freak wave whilst fishing on Ahch-to.
penne all'arrabiata?
Guvernator said:
Some situational humour is acceptable but the "on hold" scene actually had me cringing. I'm guessing they were going for the Han talks to the prison supervisor angle from ANH but that was to a faceless nobody and actually fit in with the story.
Undermining one of the main bad guys, not once but repeatedly so that he goes from being a credible threat in TFA to comedy sidekick material is just one of many many bad decisions in this film.
Comedy bad guys, you can tell this ship is being well and truly steered by Disney now.
I was thinking that if anyone had tried to pull the same thing on Grand Moff Tarkin, they'd have been vapourised at the first instance.Undermining one of the main bad guys, not once but repeatedly so that he goes from being a credible threat in TFA to comedy sidekick material is just one of many many bad decisions in this film.
Comedy bad guys, you can tell this ship is being well and truly steered by Disney now.
HorneyMX5 said:
Bit of a non story. Star Wars has always been pretty inclusive with strong female characters. As each decade has passed its been right in step with the times.
TLJ is a bit crap for many reasons, the multicultural and gender diverse cast is very far from being one of them. It’s more basic lack of coherent story telling, terrible editing and not sticking to a franchises internal logic.
Indeed, I can recall pointing out just how strong and intrinsic Leia is to the success of the first film to a twit of a friend who started up with all that 'no strong female' character twaddle to me a whileback, one only has to watch the bloomin film to see how she certainly isn't a damsel in distress.TLJ is a bit crap for many reasons, the multicultural and gender diverse cast is very far from being one of them. It’s more basic lack of coherent story telling, terrible editing and not sticking to a franchises internal logic.
I usually try not to comment on PC'ness in films as it seems to have become an integral part of nearly every blockbuster that comes out of Hollywood these days and yes the original trilogy had a very strong female lead decades ago.
However in TLJ you can't help but notice the blatant PC barrage. Without fail almost every male character is weak, incompetent and or has issues
Kylo Ren - Whiney emo with anger issues
Hux - Angry incompetent reduced to comedy sidekick
Poe - Annoying, arrogant alpha male hot head who gets put in his place by not one but two stronger females
Finn - Incompetent coward until a women redeems him
Compare this to the females
Leia - Leader of the resistance that everyone looks up to, puts the upstart Poe in his place
Pink Hair Lady - Takes over from Leia, has a master plan to save everyone, put's Poe in his place, sacrifices herself heroically
Rey - Super strong in the force, can fly a ship, use a light-sabre with no training and lift tonnes of rocks without trying
Rose - Lowly mechanic who knows how to do EVERYTHING and is the good conscience to Finns weaker character
Add in the very blatant and jarring messages about "rich people are bad", war is bad" and I really can't help but see Star Wars being used as a platform for someone's political agenda's.
Can we not have one blockbuster these days that doesn't feel the need to pointlessly eulogise or carry the brand for particular causes?
However in TLJ you can't help but notice the blatant PC barrage. Without fail almost every male character is weak, incompetent and or has issues
Kylo Ren - Whiney emo with anger issues
Hux - Angry incompetent reduced to comedy sidekick
Poe - Annoying, arrogant alpha male hot head who gets put in his place by not one but two stronger females
Finn - Incompetent coward until a women redeems him
Compare this to the females
Leia - Leader of the resistance that everyone looks up to, puts the upstart Poe in his place
Pink Hair Lady - Takes over from Leia, has a master plan to save everyone, put's Poe in his place, sacrifices herself heroically
Rey - Super strong in the force, can fly a ship, use a light-sabre with no training and lift tonnes of rocks without trying
Rose - Lowly mechanic who knows how to do EVERYTHING and is the good conscience to Finns weaker character
Add in the very blatant and jarring messages about "rich people are bad", war is bad" and I really can't help but see Star Wars being used as a platform for someone's political agenda's.
Can we not have one blockbuster these days that doesn't feel the need to pointlessly eulogise or carry the brand for particular causes?
Halb said:
Chemical Ali said:
Weak link? If only it were so. With PM there was always the next film, with this just about everyone has died a pointless death so the next film really needs to start from scratch. That I guess I can eventually understand, but give their demise meaning at least. I mean Snoke may as well have choked to death on piece of steak in the death star canteen and Luke in a freak wave whilst fishing on Ahch-to.
penne all'arrabiata?
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