Star Wars: The Last Jedi (CONTAINS SPOILERS)
Discussion
r11co said:
Script re-writes are as common as sex-pests in Hollywood
Plus Carrier herself was a script doc on this film...and funnily enough, her sceens are the ones I like! Who wuuda thunk it!?!?
chris watton said:
Hands up those who are going to pay good money to re-watch this at the cinema!
I think I have watched RO more because of the aesthetics, more so than TFA. I love the 'lived in' look, and the weather-decade remnants of the old republic, I can sense the history of a massive struggle when watching certain scenes. I could tell is made by people who cared about/painstakingly researched the history/lore - even though I knew how it ended, and the characters weren't perhaps fleshed out as much as I would have liked, it is still a very enjoyable re-watch movie for me because it fits perfectly with that universe.
I fear that Disney has become a behemoth of a company, and professional critics maybe apprehensive about writing truthful reviews - I cannot believe for a second that Mark Kermode, who I have listened to for a couple of decades couldn't see the gaping flaws in this movie and instead just praise it. It makes little sense.
I won't be, I watched TFA three times, not because I thought it was amazing, but different friends went at different times, and I was curious as to what a second viewing would reveal (I know that second viewings are generally more appreciative of a film), and because I was still in awe of the whole, Star Wars is back thing. I watched Rogue 1 because it looked so amazing, and it is the best Star Wars film since RotJ for me. I'll rewatch that over the years. As you, I loved the realistic feel of it.I think I have watched RO more because of the aesthetics, more so than TFA. I love the 'lived in' look, and the weather-decade remnants of the old republic, I can sense the history of a massive struggle when watching certain scenes. I could tell is made by people who cared about/painstakingly researched the history/lore - even though I knew how it ended, and the characters weren't perhaps fleshed out as much as I would have liked, it is still a very enjoyable re-watch movie for me because it fits perfectly with that universe.
I fear that Disney has become a behemoth of a company, and professional critics maybe apprehensive about writing truthful reviews - I cannot believe for a second that Mark Kermode, who I have listened to for a couple of decades couldn't see the gaping flaws in this movie and instead just praise it. It makes little sense.
And as you, I really am puzzled over Kermode, now Disney is so powerful, more than we could have possibly imagined, I reckon reviews will be fudged.
I just came away after seeing it feeling disappointed.
TFA had set up some good story points and RJ just took a huge dump all over them.
These bits should never have been allowed to happen:
Laser Sword - No, just no.
Casino Land - Boring and unneccessary
Rose - Pointless character to appease the chinese market
Snoke - Why get rid of the main villain
Leia - Flying around in space and surviving. That should have been the moment they killed her off.
Phasma - Hopefully she's not dead. If she is, what a waste of another potentially good villain.
Kylo Ren - Isnt a good enough villain to be the main villain. He isnt even a Vader.
That being said, there was some good stuff in the film. It was ok, better than Rogue One, but not great.
TFA had set up some good story points and RJ just took a huge dump all over them.
These bits should never have been allowed to happen:
Laser Sword - No, just no.
Casino Land - Boring and unneccessary
Rose - Pointless character to appease the chinese market
Snoke - Why get rid of the main villain
Leia - Flying around in space and surviving. That should have been the moment they killed her off.
Phasma - Hopefully she's not dead. If she is, what a waste of another potentially good villain.
Kylo Ren - Isnt a good enough villain to be the main villain. He isnt even a Vader.
That being said, there was some good stuff in the film. It was ok, better than Rogue One, but not great.
The one thing that I didn't like about Phasma.... her voice wasn't at all disguised.
What's her name from GoT, her voice needed 'gruffing up' in some way. Most people in SW wearing full face helmets usually have a bit of synth on the comms.... she didn't and therefore didn't convey any authority or menace to me.
Anyone else think her character was weak?
What's her name from GoT, her voice needed 'gruffing up' in some way. Most people in SW wearing full face helmets usually have a bit of synth on the comms.... she didn't and therefore didn't convey any authority or menace to me.
Anyone else think her character was weak?
Was really looking forward to seeing this and finally saw it today.
What a shocking excuse for a film - absolutely dire. So disappointed.
Way too long, have no connection with any of the new characters, pointless scenes (the casino place) and the villains are terrible - even Kylo Ren is annoying.
Luke milking a space walrus - err, no thanks. Leia flying around in space!
If they kill off Chewbacca or melt down R2-D2 in the next one, I'll be well and truly
off!
What a shocking excuse for a film - absolutely dire. So disappointed.
Way too long, have no connection with any of the new characters, pointless scenes (the casino place) and the villains are terrible - even Kylo Ren is annoying.
Luke milking a space walrus - err, no thanks. Leia flying around in space!
If they kill off Chewbacca or melt down R2-D2 in the next one, I'll be well and truly
off! Edited by P4ulB on Thursday 21st December 19:17
Guvernator said:
It's DIsney's modus operandi, if fans don't like a film, they get their media shills to start attacking the fan-base saying they are racist,sexist or just geeks with a grudge. The exact same thing happened with the new Ghostbusters, those who didn't like it were immediately accused of being sexist and threatened by "girl power" to try to take focus away from the fact that the film was rubbish. What an absolute crock of bullcrap.
I’m not sure if it’s Disney’s MO, but I wouldn’t bet against it.Agreed though, I was told I didn’t like Ghostbusters because I was a pig headed sexist - but in actual fact it was because it was a septic wound of a film.
Now I didn’t like TLJ because I’m old and cannot accept that my childhood heroes aren’t perfect and I need to move on... yeah, don’t piss in my pocket and tell me it’s raining.
TTmonkey said:
The one thing that I didn't like about Phasma.... her voice wasn't at all disguised.
What's her name from GoT, her voice needed 'gruffing up' in some way. Most people in SW wearing full face helmets usually have a bit of synth on the comms.... she didn't and therefore didn't convey any authority or menace to me.
Anyone else think her character was weak?
What's her name from GoT, her voice needed 'gruffing up' in some way. Most people in SW wearing full face helmets usually have a bit of synth on the comms.... she didn't and therefore didn't convey any authority or menace to me.
Anyone else think her character was weak?
, very, glad she was binned off, felt like flavour of the month casting to me. Glad Snoke is gone too, a very poor Emperor clone, hopefully now this time of upheaval is over the next one will be cracking...but it needs no earth jokes, like yo momma and phones calls.
The PR operation seems to be in full swing attacking 'fan boys' and basically saying the audience are wrong rather than it being a not particularly good film.
They'd be better off keeping their mouths shut rather than insulting their customers - it's not like it'll actually help the reaction is it? And attacking your core audience on a franchise is a particularly terrible idea.
As has been mentioned it all has the smell of what happened with Ghostbusters.
They'd be better off keeping their mouths shut rather than insulting their customers - it's not like it'll actually help the reaction is it? And attacking your core audience on a franchise is a particularly terrible idea.
As has been mentioned it all has the smell of what happened with Ghostbusters.
How can they say it's a good film?
Yes it had good elements and some of the storyline wasn't terrible.
Buy the main story was abysmal, the treatment of existing characters disgusting, whole sections of irrelevant drivel distracting from the ham fisted handling of the main plot etc.
Unlike the last 2 movies this was garbage.
Yes it had good elements and some of the storyline wasn't terrible.
Buy the main story was abysmal, the treatment of existing characters disgusting, whole sections of irrelevant drivel distracting from the ham fisted handling of the main plot etc.
Unlike the last 2 movies this was garbage.
Watched at the BFI Imax today - I enjoyed the first half, but started to get doubts half way in. Overall, it was at best fine
Quite like some of the comedic aspects, but it's too long, and really when you look at it, nothing happens - apart from the deaths, the status quo is exactly the same at the end of the film as it was at the start. I'm struggling to understand the point of it because the characters don't even really advance all that much.
I think you could easily remove half of the stuff that happens in this film (everything to do with Luke, Leia, etc.) without anyone noticing.
I'm still unclear as to what TFA and TLJ are supposed to be - they really don't feel like sequels given that they are just rehashing stuff from A New Hope and Empire.
Quite like some of the comedic aspects, but it's too long, and really when you look at it, nothing happens - apart from the deaths, the status quo is exactly the same at the end of the film as it was at the start. I'm struggling to understand the point of it because the characters don't even really advance all that much.
I think you could easily remove half of the stuff that happens in this film (everything to do with Luke, Leia, etc.) without anyone noticing.
I'm still unclear as to what TFA and TLJ are supposed to be - they really don't feel like sequels given that they are just rehashing stuff from A New Hope and Empire.
Jonesy23 said:
The PR operation seems to be in full swing attacking 'fan boys' and basically saying the audience are wrong rather than it being a not particularly good film.
They'd be better off keeping their mouths shut rather than insulting their customers - it's not like it'll actually help the reaction is it? And attacking your core audience on a franchise is a particularly terrible idea.
You're right. That's basically the same error Chris Evans made when he got bad reviews on Top Gear.They'd be better off keeping their mouths shut rather than insulting their customers - it's not like it'll actually help the reaction is it? And attacking your core audience on a franchise is a particularly terrible idea.
Just back from seeing it a second time to see if I had the same reaction. Watched it the first time with eldest son who was not a big fan. It's very diversive and I can understand why some/many have taken against it but second time round you can get a different feel for the film.
For me, after a second watch, these are my thoughts on some of the more diversive elements:
Main plot line - slow chase through space. It doesn't make sense and I have to agree but how many other points in the Star Wars universe make no sense either, all the way back to Star Wars. Eg why drop into the trench miles away from the exhaust port, why not just before you get to the right point? It's not a hard physics story but easier to have gone for the cruiser on the edge of range of a tractor beam and having to be a full power to stay at range. Same story and time pressure but more consistent to Star Wars universe.
Humour - bit more Guardians of Galaxy than Star Wars but I have to say I liked almost all of it.
Leia - when she was blown out of the ship, I was amazed at the braveness of killing her off like that, thought it was a great decision and really made everyone vulnerable. Oh, she's survived.....worst part of the film for me as it's always difficult to recover the peril required to keep the story going.
Luke - liked bits of his story including throwing the light saber away but bits grated "laser sword". Not a big fan of another ghost either.
Casino/Rose - Really messed with the pacing, seemed an overly complicated way to progress the plot. Boyega who gave a lot of energy and humour to TFA had much less to work with this time.
Snoke - happy to see him killed off and can live without the back story although I think it will get filled in at some point in next film.
Weirdly for me it almost felt like the end of the trilogy rather than the middle episode. Wonder if there will have to be a time leap of at least 10-15 years for the next one or will JJ take up arms against it and have Rey do a double take meeting Luke and say she's just had a terrible vision of what could happen and retcon the whole movie out!
For me, after a second watch, these are my thoughts on some of the more diversive elements:
Main plot line - slow chase through space. It doesn't make sense and I have to agree but how many other points in the Star Wars universe make no sense either, all the way back to Star Wars. Eg why drop into the trench miles away from the exhaust port, why not just before you get to the right point? It's not a hard physics story but easier to have gone for the cruiser on the edge of range of a tractor beam and having to be a full power to stay at range. Same story and time pressure but more consistent to Star Wars universe.
Humour - bit more Guardians of Galaxy than Star Wars but I have to say I liked almost all of it.
Leia - when she was blown out of the ship, I was amazed at the braveness of killing her off like that, thought it was a great decision and really made everyone vulnerable. Oh, she's survived.....worst part of the film for me as it's always difficult to recover the peril required to keep the story going.
Luke - liked bits of his story including throwing the light saber away but bits grated "laser sword". Not a big fan of another ghost either.
Casino/Rose - Really messed with the pacing, seemed an overly complicated way to progress the plot. Boyega who gave a lot of energy and humour to TFA had much less to work with this time.
Snoke - happy to see him killed off and can live without the back story although I think it will get filled in at some point in next film.
Weirdly for me it almost felt like the end of the trilogy rather than the middle episode. Wonder if there will have to be a time leap of at least 10-15 years for the next one or will JJ take up arms against it and have Rey do a double take meeting Luke and say she's just had a terrible vision of what could happen and retcon the whole movie out!
Rumblestripe said:
Chemical Ali said:
The feeling of upset I feel is that I have been conned into purchasing tickets to see a movie of Star Wars and this is not true to Star Wars.
Did the nasty anti-semites make you watch non-white people and ladies in spaceships? For shame!Welcome to the 21st Century.
You're saying that if someone likes the other Star Wars movies but doesn't like TLJ its because they're sexist and racist? Even though the other Star Wars movies have "non-white people and ladies in spaceships" (as you put it) too. I'm not sure if you're a raving moron or if I've been trolled and deserve a whoosh parrot.
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 22 December 04:59
Why kill off the main baddie with an episode to go?
Luke goes to the trouble of hiding his shack in a partial secret map from 2 sources in case his help is ever needed, then when found he's like... aah, well done, now fk off!
Why have Luke bottle it and die from straining on the rock rather than face Kylo Ren in person? He's going to die anyway, he must know...
Would Luke really earlier try to kill his nephew who is showing dark force tendencies when years ago he went on a suicide mission to try to turn the most evil user of the dark side of the force in the galaxy to the light?
Why waste 45 minutes on the stupid code breaker/casino sub-plot?
What happened to Rey's training?
Phasma was a joke.
R2DT scans the rebel base for a back door, can't find it. Crystal foxes run out the hole in the back of the base. Let's play follow the fox.
Why didn't Laura Dern tell Poe about her plan to prevent a mutiny and a waste of time? Why didn't she set the autopilot & escape before doing the hyperdrive shunt?
Bitty.
What happened to the Knights of Ren?
Fuel tanks low. I mean, WTF?!
Misjudged/too much humour.
One x-wing can destroy a dreadnought?
Leia Poppins' death/return.
How come Snoke (who is powerful enough with the force to force-join Rey & Ren across a galaxy without either of them knowing) can't tell that a lightsaber is being manipulated a few inches away from him?
So many other points...
There are so many things wrong with TLJ that don't make character arc/contextual sense when viewed alongside any other Star Wars film.
It's just a bad film that in places looks quite pretty.
I think my 6/10 was generous.
Luke goes to the trouble of hiding his shack in a partial secret map from 2 sources in case his help is ever needed, then when found he's like... aah, well done, now f
k off!Why have Luke bottle it and die from straining on the rock rather than face Kylo Ren in person? He's going to die anyway, he must know...
Would Luke really earlier try to kill his nephew who is showing dark force tendencies when years ago he went on a suicide mission to try to turn the most evil user of the dark side of the force in the galaxy to the light?
Why waste 45 minutes on the stupid code breaker/casino sub-plot?
What happened to Rey's training?
Phasma was a joke.
R2DT scans the rebel base for a back door, can't find it. Crystal foxes run out the hole in the back of the base. Let's play follow the fox.
Why didn't Laura Dern tell Poe about her plan to prevent a mutiny and a waste of time? Why didn't she set the autopilot & escape before doing the hyperdrive shunt?
Bitty.
What happened to the Knights of Ren?
Fuel tanks low. I mean, WTF?!
Misjudged/too much humour.
One x-wing can destroy a dreadnought?
Leia Poppins' death/return.
How come Snoke (who is powerful enough with the force to force-join Rey & Ren across a galaxy without either of them knowing) can't tell that a lightsaber is being manipulated a few inches away from him?
So many other points...
There are so many things wrong with TLJ that don't make character arc/contextual sense when viewed alongside any other Star Wars film.
It's just a bad film that in places looks quite pretty.
I think my 6/10 was generous.
Edited by zygalski on Friday 22 December 06:19
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