Star Wars: The Last Jedi (CONTAINS SPOILERS)
Discussion
r11co said:
Robster said:
Hmmm so lukes story was told
Luke's story was untold you mean. The character that we were supposed to believe was Luke Skywalker behaved completely and inexplicably out of character for almost all of the movie for no endRobster said:
reys parents explained
You think that was an explanation? It was a weak cop-out masquerading as social comment....Robster said:
anyone can be a 'jedi'
Yeah, anyone can be a soldier, doctor, rocket scientist. No training required.....
Kind of forgot about this bit.
The introduction to Rose scene. Was Fin deserting? I thought that after he picked up the tracker that Leia dropped, (if that's what it was) he was going to find Rey. It seemed that he tried to explain that to Rose but I can't remember the dialogue. Rose then shocked him and called him a coward for wanting to rescue his friend instead of fighting the enemy.
She then went on to say to him later that they should be saving eachother instead of trying to kill the enemy.
That right? Or did I miss a bit. Not trying to be clever just can't remember.
The introduction to Rose scene. Was Fin deserting? I thought that after he picked up the tracker that Leia dropped, (if that's what it was) he was going to find Rey. It seemed that he tried to explain that to Rose but I can't remember the dialogue. Rose then shocked him and called him a coward for wanting to rescue his friend instead of fighting the enemy.
She then went on to say to him later that they should be saving eachother instead of trying to kill the enemy.
That right? Or did I miss a bit. Not trying to be clever just can't remember.
Mr_Yogi said:
Quick question regarding Rey's parents; I assumed the "They were nobody's" line that Emo Boy trotted out was just to try and persuade Rey to join him, not necessarily the truth?
I tink it was more Rian ripping up all the stuff set up in TFA, in the way new managers do to old managers.Robster said:
end credits shown anyone can be a 'jedi'
Not quite - it shows that force sensitive people can reside in any walk of life - but you cant make a Jedi out of somebody who is not force sensitive. However the fact that Jedi can come from any walk of life was well established right from the start of the Starwars saga.
Episode 4 - Luke was an orphan farm hand.
Episode 1 - Anakin was the 'illigitimate' son of a slave.
Nowhere in the Starwars backstory has it been established (or even suggested) that the Jedi can only come from upper or noble classes so this 'revelation' is hardly groundbreaking or even original. The force has always been presented as being 'everywhere'.
Edited by Moonhawk on Friday 22 December 11:32
I read that Johnson did not want to alter the Leia storyline after Carrie Fisher's death, and didn't want to edit her footage nor CGI any new scenes.
But I think this will go down as a monumental (sic) blunder. This film - and she - will be forever remembered for the "Mary Poppins in Space" moment. It's the bit that bugs me most.
It's daft, too, because they are still have to kill Leia off in some other way for the next film. I'm guessing they didn't film that yet. So they have to use CGI/editing anyway. And they made another headache for themselves - they have to find a cause of death that can't be undone by Poppins/Force magic.
But I think this will go down as a monumental (sic) blunder. This film - and she - will be forever remembered for the "Mary Poppins in Space" moment. It's the bit that bugs me most.
It's daft, too, because they are still have to kill Leia off in some other way for the next film. I'm guessing they didn't film that yet. So they have to use CGI/editing anyway. And they made another headache for themselves - they have to find a cause of death that can't be undone by Poppins/Force magic.
Moonhawk said:
Nowhere in the Starwars backstory has it been established (or even suggested) that the Jedi can only come from upper or noble classes so this 'revelation' is hardly groundbreaking or even original. The force has always been presented as being 'everywhere'.
That's true, I think Qui-Gon said that if Anakin was born on a planet closer to Coruscant he'd have been detected quickly and trained by the Jedi. Something like that anyway. Halb said:
I'm not bugged by the Leia force but, it fits to my mind, time slows down and she is able to see what is happening, so he takes a breath and protects herself as much as she is able, she was the equal of LUke though not trained.
It looked silly, but I didn't have a huge problem with it. Like you say Leia is supposed to be somewhat force sensitive. My gripes were mostly about the humour and fetch quest to Casino world.b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Rey is still in the film and I didn't walk away from TFA with a massive feeling that her parents/background needed to be or even would be central to the plot.
Finn is still in the film and ditto other than I do think he could have played a bigger part.
Luke/Leia well, again not sure what people really expected there that wasn't delivered on?
Snoke, well I don't recall the Emperor having that much of a backstory in the original triology so I don't struggle with Snoke not being the arch protagonist that people expected from TFA.
I'm genuinely struggling to see all these massive things that weren't deliver on if you walked into this clean having just watched TFA like I did having done my best to avoid any spoilers and just wanting to walk into the cinema and appreciate whatever was coming at face value.
All points missed. Pivotal one though is Snoke - his back-story is irrelevant. He's powerful enough in the force to suspend Rey in mid-air and orchestrate the force-link between her and Ren (pivotal to what can be tenuously called plot) but didn't notice the lightsabre moving to kill him?!?Finn is still in the film and ditto other than I do think he could have played a bigger part.
Luke/Leia well, again not sure what people really expected there that wasn't delivered on?
Snoke, well I don't recall the Emperor having that much of a backstory in the original triology so I don't struggle with Snoke not being the arch protagonist that people expected from TFA.
I'm genuinely struggling to see all these massive things that weren't deliver on if you walked into this clean having just watched TFA like I did having done my best to avoid any spoilers and just wanting to walk into the cinema and appreciate whatever was coming at face value.
My 10 year-old daugher questioned that, so if she can see the problem there why can't you?
Edited by r11co on Friday 22 December 11:47
r11co said:
All points missed. Pivotal one though is Snoke - his back-story is irrelevant. He's powerful enough in the force to suspend Rey in mid-air and orchestrate the force-link between her and Ren (pivotal to the plot) but didn't notice the lightsabre moving to kill him?!?
My 10 year-old daugher questioned that, so if she can see the problem there why can't you?
Because I'm dumber than your 10 year old daughter or maybe I just didn't overthink it.My 10 year-old daugher questioned that, so if she can see the problem there why can't you?
Honestly when I watched it I assumed Snoke was so focused on Rey that he couldn't see what was right in front of him.
Wood for the trees. Simple as that for me.
Escapegoat said:
I read that Johnson did not want to alter the Leia storyline after Carrie Fisher's death, and didn't want to edit her footage nor CGI any new scenes.
But I think this will go down as a monumental (sic) blunder. This film - and she - will be forever remembered for the "Mary Poppins in Space" moment. It's the bit that bugs me most.
It's daft, too, because they are still have to kill Leia off in some other way for the next film. I'm guessing they didn't film that yet. So they have to use CGI/editing anyway. And they made another headache for themselves - they have to find a cause of death that can't be undone by Poppins/Force magic.
They are falling into the trap of the prequels introducing new characters all the time. One of the biggest mistake in the prequels was killing off Darth maul - then having to introducing new baddies for each new film (Dooku in EP2 and Greivous in EP3).But I think this will go down as a monumental (sic) blunder. This film - and she - will be forever remembered for the "Mary Poppins in Space" moment. It's the bit that bugs me most.
It's daft, too, because they are still have to kill Leia off in some other way for the next film. I'm guessing they didn't film that yet. So they have to use CGI/editing anyway. And they made another headache for themselves - they have to find a cause of death that can't be undone by Poppins/Force magic.
They are doing the same with these movies. Laura Dern's character was totally unnecessary - and her role could have easily been fulfilled by either Leia or Admiral Akbar. As it stands - we got the afore mentioned 'Mary Poppins in space' scene for Leia, and Akbar (a relatively major character in ROTJ and TFA - as well as Starwars lore) was dispatched with barely a mention. Hardly a fitting end.
Phasma was also a big let down. She did very little in TFA and her demise at the hands of Fin just felt flat and uninteresting.
Is this done as a cynical attempt to increase merchandising opportunities - more main characters means more action figures? I suspect the evil BB8 was introduced for exactly that reason.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Honestly when I watched it I assumed Snoke was so focused on Rey that he couldn't see what was right in front of him.
Wood for the trees. Simple as that for me.
Yes - I didn't feel the Snoke death scene was jarring for that reason. His concentration was so much on Rey and his attempt to manipulate Kylo - that he couldn't see what was under his nose.Wood for the trees. Simple as that for me.
It was however just a rehash of the Emperors death in ROTJ (the emperor was so intent on hurting and killing Luke - that he didn't sense Vader turning back to the light despite being stood right next to him).
Moonhawk said:
Is this done as a cynical attempt to increase merchandising opportunities - more main characters means more action figures? I suspect the evil BB8 was introduced for exactly that reason.
I wondered the same. He was a bit like the cleaning robot from Wall-E. 
But then again, Star Wars/Kenner have never needed that excuse...Pruneface anyone?
https://youtu.be/MvE7GKg05JE
Moonhawk said:
Not quite - it shows that force sensitive people can reside in any walk of life - but you cant make a Jedi out of somebody who is not force sensitive.
However the fact that Jedi can come from any walk of life was well established right from the start of the Starwars saga.
Episode 4 - Luke was an orphan farm hand.
Episode 1 - Anakin was the 'illigitimate' son of a slave.
Nowhere in the Starwars backstory has it been established (or even suggested) that the Jedi can only come from upper or noble classes so this 'revelation' is hardly groundbreaking or even original. The force has always been presented as being 'everywhere'.
Not entirely correct regards the skywalkers, but anyone or any living thing can become a jedi. Luke was the son of Anakin and Padame, the queen of Naboo, and in PM it was stated that anikin's father was the force when Qui Gon asked Shmee (not 150) who daddy was.However the fact that Jedi can come from any walk of life was well established right from the start of the Starwars saga.
Episode 4 - Luke was an orphan farm hand.
Episode 1 - Anakin was the 'illigitimate' son of a slave.
Nowhere in the Starwars backstory has it been established (or even suggested) that the Jedi can only come from upper or noble classes so this 'revelation' is hardly groundbreaking or even original. The force has always been presented as being 'everywhere'.
Edited by Moonhawk on Friday 22 December 11:32
Back story strongly hints to Palpatine creating a force child somehow and that anakin is this force child, but this is not cannon. If this is the case, he is a high ranking diplomat and a posh upper class chap to boot!
Anyone can be a jedi IF force sensitive. But, no midichlorians, no powers. Supposedly.
Edited by Chemical Ali on Friday 22 December 13:23
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Because I'm dumber than your 10 year old daughter or maybe I just didn't overthink it.
Honestly when I watched it I assumed Snoke was so focused on Rey that he couldn't see what was right in front of him.
Wood for the trees. Simple as that for me.
I doubt you are. The film itself isn't that bad as a pure science fiction film. As a fan of the genre its worth a ticket to watch for me. The negativity comes from the Star Wars element, which seems to bother non Star Wars fans much less.Honestly when I watched it I assumed Snoke was so focused on Rey that he couldn't see what was right in front of him.
Wood for the trees. Simple as that for me.
A friend of mine, who is an avid trekkie, thought it was ok. For me as a Star Wars fan with a few bits of memorabilia etc it was painful to watch due to the inconsistencies with how Star Wars works in my mind.
e.g.: Leia can't fly; Rae is nowhere near powerful enough to challenge Luke; Jedi's powers affect the things around them not many light years away as with Lukes holo projection; also Hux is essentially equivalent to Tarkin. You couldn't have a bigger divergence in gravitas with Hux looking unable to control a shopping trolley let alone the largest military force in the known universe. And there are so many more.
From my understanding of Snokes death you point out, this could easily happen as force perception would be on a persons feelings not so much their literal decisions. With Snoke concentrating its fair to think he could miss this. But why write a relatively pointless death for him and luke?
Edited by Chemical Ali on Friday 22 December 13:36
Edited by Chemical Ali on Friday 22 December 13:44
Chemical Ali said:
From my understanding of Snokes death you point out, this could easily happen as force perception would be on a persons feelings not so much their literal decisions. With Snoke concentrating its fair to think he could miss this. But why write a relatively pointless death for him and luke?
Because 'let the past die, kill it if you have to' aka. Johnson to Abrams "you are past it and I'm killing your legacy". Star Wars IMO had nothing to do with it. It was really the write/director's pissing contest funded with house money.Then Johnson goes all 'I didn't know how the characters were left in TFA so I was writing blank' bulls
t.All the discussions about the film are moot when you actually read what Johnson has said since the backlash. He's covering his tracks because he knows he's been found out.
Edited by r11co on Friday 22 December 14:08
r11co said:
Because 'let the past die, kill it if you have to' aka. Johnson to Abrams "you are past it and I'm killing your legacy". Star Wars IMO had nothing to do with it. It was really the write/director's pissing contest funded with house money.
Then Johnson goes all 'I didn't know how the characters were left in TFA so I was writing blank' bullst.
All the discussions about the film are moot when you actually read what Johnson has said since the backlash. He's covering his tracks because he knows he's been found out.
Quite.Then Johnson goes all 'I didn't know how the characters were left in TFA so I was writing blank' bulls
t.All the discussions about the film are moot when you actually read what Johnson has said since the backlash. He's covering his tracks because he knows he's been found out.
Edited by r11co on Friday 22 December 14:08
"This is not going to go how you expect it" in the trailer, the trolling from the off of the film, the frequent winks throughout the movie.
Absolutely dismal.
Chemical Ali said:
e.g.: Leia can't fly; Rae is nowhere near powerful enough to challenge Luke; Jedi's powers affect the things around them not many light years away as with Lukes holo projection; also Hux is essentially equivalent to Tarkin. You couldn't have a bigger divergence in gravitas with Hux looking unable to control a shopping trolley let alone the largest military force in the known universe. And there are so many
Leia's powers being manifest I can handle, also the Rimmer projection to some point, it was a one shot deal, basically give your life to save others. But the Hux thing...just...like a 12 year old had written it, I kept thinking, you wouldn't do that with Tarkin...you wouldn't do that with Tarkin...you wouldn't do that with Tarkin. It simply reinforced how solid the first film is and it's relationships, as opposed to the Saturday morning It's A Knockout version we got for the MTV/faceapp generation.https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-h...
I am still shocked how they got it so wrong. The only logical explanation is that they want to create more than just a trilogy. Snokes death makes sense according to episode 3 as I will be expecting him to reappear again in 9 but that will mean there will not be enough film for him to come back and then die properly. Who knows as I am sure Disney are not even sure themselves.
I am still shocked how they got it so wrong. The only logical explanation is that they want to create more than just a trilogy. Snokes death makes sense according to episode 3 as I will be expecting him to reappear again in 9 but that will mean there will not be enough film for him to come back and then die properly. Who knows as I am sure Disney are not even sure themselves.
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