Star Wars IX: The Rise of Skywalker
Discussion
Halb said:
Rumblestripe said:
And we're back to posting links to You Tube rants.
FFS no-one cares, or should care, that much.
FFS no-one cares, or should care, that much.
- Irony
and we're back to dissing the people who post whatever, irony indeed. FFS fella, you don't like it, fine, scroll past, but stop getting your knickers inna twist over people who wanna post links or chat about them, you're not the f
king king of this place!Guvernator said:
Posting multiples times on a Star Wars thread that people are getting too precious about the films and should stop posting about them.
I also love the fact that terms like nerds and people living in basements are constantly being thrown around in a derogatory fashion when a large part of the Star Wars fan base is made of fans who are quite into the franchise. Something that various posters, the general media and indeed Disney seem to be very keen to denegrate when it's exactly because of those fans that the interest in Star Wars has survived so long.
ThisI also love the fact that terms like nerds and people living in basements are constantly being thrown around in a derogatory fashion when a large part of the Star Wars fan base is made of fans who are quite into the franchise. Something that various posters, the general media and indeed Disney seem to be very keen to denegrate when it's exactly because of those fans that the interest in Star Wars has survived so long.
Which was also what made the films so profitable. All those devoted fans buying the merchandise, magazines etc.
I think TFA started off pretty well, it wasn't brilliant but it managed to capture at least some of the Star Wars feel and magic, Rey was a charismatic and interesting character and I enjoyed watching her story. Finn was also interesting and Kylo Ren had potential if a little bit too emo for my liking. The other characters weren't brilliant tbf but not awful.
The re-tread of the story of ANH was a bit formulaic and the New Order seemed to have sprung up from nowhere, bigger and badder than the previous Empire which was pretty much unexplained but you could forgive a lot of it's foibles due to getting most of the other elements right and a bit of good will.
TLJ however pretty much destroyed all of that goodwill so RoSW was always going to have a massive uphill struggle to fix the issues TLJ caused and to be fair, it had a good stab at it but it was never going to be 100% successful as there was just too much to fix.
Really have no idea how or why they dropped the ball so much with TLJ, tbh. It really is the film that breaks this part of the franchise for me. It just makes the trilogy feel very incoherent. For such a large franchise they really should have got a more coherent story together and ideally got the same person to direct all 3 with a clear vision of what the story was going to achieve.
It really shouldn't be that hard to make a decent Star Wars trilogy tbh but they've tried twice now since the OT and pretty much cocked it up both times, very strange.
The re-tread of the story of ANH was a bit formulaic and the New Order seemed to have sprung up from nowhere, bigger and badder than the previous Empire which was pretty much unexplained but you could forgive a lot of it's foibles due to getting most of the other elements right and a bit of good will.
TLJ however pretty much destroyed all of that goodwill so RoSW was always going to have a massive uphill struggle to fix the issues TLJ caused and to be fair, it had a good stab at it but it was never going to be 100% successful as there was just too much to fix.
Really have no idea how or why they dropped the ball so much with TLJ, tbh. It really is the film that breaks this part of the franchise for me. It just makes the trilogy feel very incoherent. For such a large franchise they really should have got a more coherent story together and ideally got the same person to direct all 3 with a clear vision of what the story was going to achieve.
It really shouldn't be that hard to make a decent Star Wars trilogy tbh but they've tried twice now since the OT and pretty much cocked it up both times, very strange.
Guvernator said:
It really shouldn't be that hard to make a decent Star Wars trilogy tbh but they've tried twice now since the OT and pretty much cocked it up both times, very strange.
Not really that strange as there was a clear reason for bothFor the prequels George Lucas surrounded himself with yes men and had become a very lazy filmmaker (watch the Plinkett reviews for the full detail on that).
For the sequels they just had the wrong showrunner (in Kennedy) who didn't seem to care about continuity and was more interested in making political statements.
Guvernator said:
Really have no idea how or why they dropped the ball so much with TLJ, tbh. It really is the film that breaks this part of the franchise for me. It just makes the trilogy feel very incoherent. For such a large franchise they really should have got a more coherent story together and ideally got the same person to direct all 3 with a clear vision of what the story was going to achieve.
Have a look at the table here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_WarsIt tells you why VIII is the odd man out and why VII - IX are so clunky as a trilogy.
IV-VI like I-III all have a single story writer. VII and IX have JJ Abrams plus others, with JJA also involved in the screenwriting and directing.
But VIII is a Rian Johnson project, so much so that they might as well have called it “Rian Johnson’s Star Wars Intermission”. You have a change of direction and then an attempt in IX to gather it back towards where it was going.
Oh I know it was Rian Jonson's version of Star Wars, what I don't get is why he was allowed to go so far off tangent, smack bang in the middle of a 3 part trilogy and one of Disney's biggest IP's. It just seems like a very bizarre decision to me.
Did no one at the top echelons of Disney read the script and think, hang on this isn't right. My only thinking is they left KK in charge and trusted her to deliver something coherent but she went off on that tangent with RJ and it was too far along before anyone noticed.
Did no one at the top echelons of Disney read the script and think, hang on this isn't right. My only thinking is they left KK in charge and trusted her to deliver something coherent but she went off on that tangent with RJ and it was too far along before anyone noticed.
I think you have to look at all 5 films together, solo was an absolute disaster and rogue 1 was a great scifi film but not a true star wars film.
At its heart is the lack of a Feige type leader to bring a central mind to the franchise.
It is kind of strange how Disney are pushing the strong female character message, it kind of mirrors the single dad message of the original princess cartoons.
At its heart is the lack of a Feige type leader to bring a central mind to the franchise.
It is kind of strange how Disney are pushing the strong female character message, it kind of mirrors the single dad message of the original princess cartoons.
BlackWidow13 said:
Have a look at the table here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars
It tells you why VIII is the odd man out and why VII - IX are so clunky as a trilogy.
IV-VI like I-III all have a single story writer. VII and IX have JJ Abrams plus others, with JJA also involved in the screenwriting and directing.
But VIII is a Rian Johnson project, so much so that they might as well have called it “Rian Johnson’s Star Wars Intermission”. You have a change of direction and then an attempt in IX to gather it back towards where it was going.
Would have been so much easier to read had you written numbers instead of Roman numerals...It tells you why VIII is the odd man out and why VII - IX are so clunky as a trilogy.
IV-VI like I-III all have a single story writer. VII and IX have JJ Abrams plus others, with JJA also involved in the screenwriting and directing.
But VIII is a Rian Johnson project, so much so that they might as well have called it “Rian Johnson’s Star Wars Intermission”. You have a change of direction and then an attempt in IX to gather it back towards where it was going.
The Empire Strikes Back was written by George Lucas, Leigh Brackett, whose contribution was not really used but who was still credited (possibly as a mark of respect because she died during production), Irwin Kershner, the director and Lawrence Kasdan. The story and plot was constantly being tweaked and reshot even during filming, which meant that the film went massively over budget and nearly bankrupted Lucasfilm which had fronted the entire project.
Return of the Jedi was written by Lucas, Kasdan, Howard Kazanjian and Richard Marquand (who directed).
By the way what did plot elements did The Last Jedi introduce that weren't resolved by the following film?
Return of the Jedi was written by Lucas, Kasdan, Howard Kazanjian and Richard Marquand (who directed).
By the way what did plot elements did The Last Jedi introduce that weren't resolved by the following film?
warch said:
The Empire Strikes Back was written by George Lucas, Leigh Brackett, whose contribution was not really used but who was still credited (possibly as a mark of respect because she died during production), Irwin Kershner, the director and Lawrence Kasdan. The story and plot was constantly being tweaked and reshot even during filming, which meant that the film went massively over budget and nearly bankrupted Lucasfilm which had fronted the entire project.
Gary Kurtz also had huge input into EMpire (and Star Wars). Irwin Kershner was a actor's director, which is why Empire is a character study and different to Star Wars. It was a nice move.Halb said:
warch said:
The Empire Strikes Back was written by George Lucas, Leigh Brackett, whose contribution was not really used but who was still credited (possibly as a mark of respect because she died during production), Irwin Kershner, the director and Lawrence Kasdan. The story and plot was constantly being tweaked and reshot even during filming, which meant that the film went massively over budget and nearly bankrupted Lucasfilm which had fronted the entire project.
Gary Kurtz also had huge input into EMpire (and Star Wars). Irwin Kershner was a actor's director, which is why Empire is a character study and different to Star Wars. It was a nice move.I have a copy of J W Rinzler's Making of books for Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, must get a copy of the one for Return of the Jedi (getting quite expensive now).
I think using Irwin Kershner was a really bold move especially as the Empire Strikes Back was not guaranteed to be a success, and failure at the box office could've sunk Lucasfilm.
George Luca's prequel trilogy suffered from his inability to write decent dialogue (which he admits in the Star Wars book), and failing to get a proper script doctor who wasn't a yes man to edit his scripts. As I understand it the lines in A New Hope were very clunky, so much so that Fisher and Ford rebelled and coerced the director into making some adjustments, which clearly no one felt able to do in the prequels. I understand that he also adopts a very lackadaisical directing style which some actors struggled with.
That said I love how people like Peter Cushing and later Christopher Lee coped with Luca's script writing, presumably as Hammer veterans they were used to dealing with shonky script writing and delivered their lines like true professionals.
I think using Irwin Kershner was a really bold move especially as the Empire Strikes Back was not guaranteed to be a success, and failure at the box office could've sunk Lucasfilm.
George Luca's prequel trilogy suffered from his inability to write decent dialogue (which he admits in the Star Wars book), and failing to get a proper script doctor who wasn't a yes man to edit his scripts. As I understand it the lines in A New Hope were very clunky, so much so that Fisher and Ford rebelled and coerced the director into making some adjustments, which clearly no one felt able to do in the prequels. I understand that he also adopts a very lackadaisical directing style which some actors struggled with.
That said I love how people like Peter Cushing and later Christopher Lee coped with Luca's script writing, presumably as Hammer veterans they were used to dealing with shonky script writing and delivered their lines like true professionals.
JagLover said:
Guvernator said:
Posting multiples times on a Star Wars thread that people are getting too precious about the films and should stop posting about them.
I also love the fact that terms like nerds and people living in basements are constantly being thrown around in a derogatory fashion when a large part of the Star Wars fan base is made of fans who are quite into the franchise. Something that various posters, the general media and indeed Disney seem to be very keen to denegrate when it's exactly because of those fans that the interest in Star Wars has survived so long.
ThisI also love the fact that terms like nerds and people living in basements are constantly being thrown around in a derogatory fashion when a large part of the Star Wars fan base is made of fans who are quite into the franchise. Something that various posters, the general media and indeed Disney seem to be very keen to denegrate when it's exactly because of those fans that the interest in Star Wars has survived so long.
Which was also what made the films so profitable. All those devoted fans buying the merchandise, magazines etc.
Some of us simply find it a bit odd when adults want to buy and play with dollies and other children's toys though.
Reading kiddie magazines too. Then justifying it by suggesting they are the real fans and the producers of the films can thank them for wanting to play with dollies and not only bolstering profits but want everyone to know these films would never have been made without them. It's for this reason you get some of us posting multiple times, to poke fun at you.
But don't worry, it is only a fleeting thing in the moment when a Thread like this tops the table and is easily seen, lending itself to ridicule by those who see the fanboys getting all worked up about stuff all. 
Like all movies, Star Wars will be enjoyed, dismissed and disliked in various measure, equally some will want to dissect and get really serious about them and very disappointed and condemn aspects that don't live up to their personal expectation's. Apart from those pushing stupid agenda's, it is all good, no-one expects everyone to like everything.
And it's fine, dress up like a Jedi or a Stormtrooper and go and play but expect to be taken the mick out of if you start thinking that franchises only exist because of you and the merchandise you buy - you are just additional marketing tools. The vast majority of folks who buy the merch for their kids, watch the movies etc aren't all that bothered beyond immediate moment.
warch said:
I think using Irwin Kershner was a really bold move especially as the Empire Strikes Back was not guaranteed to be a success, and failure at the box office could've sunk Lucasfilm.
George Luca's prequel trilogy suffered from his inability to write decent dialogue (which he admits in the Star Wars book), and failing to get a proper script doctor who wasn't a yes man to edit his scripts. As I understand it the lines in A New Hope were very clunky, so much so that Fisher and Ford rebelled and coerced the director into making some adjustments, which clearly no one felt able to do in the prequels. I understand that he also adopts a very lackadaisical directing style which some actors struggled with.
That said I love how people like Peter Cushing and later Christopher Lee coped with Luca's script writing, presumably as Hammer veterans they were used to dealing with shonky script writing and delivered their lines like true professionals.
I think the benefit of having actors with over 100 years of experience helped him immeasurably. I posted a snippet of a Guinness interview in the STar Wars thread. He was promised half a point of the take for all the extra work/help he had done with the words/script. So clearly Lucas really appreciated it. The famous story is that Guinness got .25 on the contract once it was written down.George Luca's prequel trilogy suffered from his inability to write decent dialogue (which he admits in the Star Wars book), and failing to get a proper script doctor who wasn't a yes man to edit his scripts. As I understand it the lines in A New Hope were very clunky, so much so that Fisher and Ford rebelled and coerced the director into making some adjustments, which clearly no one felt able to do in the prequels. I understand that he also adopts a very lackadaisical directing style which some actors struggled with.
That said I love how people like Peter Cushing and later Christopher Lee coped with Luca's script writing, presumably as Hammer veterans they were used to dealing with shonky script writing and delivered their lines like true professionals.
I've been musing through old star wars stuff on the youtube, there's lots of great takes and alternative scenes.
Halb said:
I think the benefit of having actors with over 100 years of experience helped him immeasurably. I posted a snippet of a Guinness interview in the STar Wars thread. He was promised half a point of the take for all the extra work/help he had done with the words/script. So clearly Lucas really appreciated it. The famous story is that Guinness got .25 on the contract once it was written down.
I've been musing through old star wars stuff on the youtube, there's lots of great takes and alternative scenes.
Are they alternative scenes that were actually filmed or fan theory stuff? If it's stuff that was actually filmed and dropped on the cutting room floor I'll have to try and find them, they must be fascinating.I've been musing through old star wars stuff on the youtube, there's lots of great takes and alternative scenes.
And as the poster you replied to mentioned the dialogue etc, there was the apparent famous moment when Harrison ford told GL - "you can write this s
t George, but you can't say it" (or words to that effect).AshVX220 said:
Are they alternative scenes that were actually filmed or fan theory stuff? If it's stuff that was actually filmed and dropped on the cutting room floor I'll have to try and find them, they must be fascinating.
And as the poster you replied to mentioned the dialogue etc, there was the apparent famous moment when Harrison ford told GL - "you can write this st George, but you can't say it" (or words to that effect).
One was Ben fighting Vader and the dialogue is not from the film, but similar. And as the poster you replied to mentioned the dialogue etc, there was the apparent famous moment when Harrison ford told GL - "you can write this s
t George, but you can't say it" (or words to that effect).THere's also a Han audition bit, and the dialogue is...ergh, clunky as f
k, Harrison is still as slick as can be but the dialogue. 
I'll post them in the other thread.
I think (it's only a guess) that George was happy for others to mould the dialogue if he felt he could trust them.
Coolbanana said:
Calm down all, it is just light-hearted jesting albeit at your expense if you take it all too seriously, granted.
Some of us simply find it a bit odd when adults want to buy and play with dollies and other children's toys though. Reading kiddie magazines too. Then justifying it by suggesting they are the real fans and the producers of the films can thank them for wanting to play with dollies and not only bolstering profits but want everyone to know these films would never have been made without them.
It's for this reason you get some of us posting multiple times, to poke fun at you. But don't worry, it is only a fleeting thing in the moment when a Thread like this tops the table and is easily seen, lending itself to ridicule by those who see the fanboys getting all worked up about stuff all.
Like all movies, Star Wars will be enjoyed, dismissed and disliked in various measure, equally some will want to dissect and get really serious about them and very disappointed and condemn aspects that don't live up to their personal expectation's. Apart from those pushing stupid agenda's, it is all good, no-one expects everyone to like everything.
And it's fine, dress up like a Jedi or a Stormtrooper and go and play but expect to be taken the mick out of if you start thinking that franchises only exist because of you and the merchandise you buy - you are just additional marketing tools. The vast majority of folks who buy the merch for their kids, watch the movies etc aren't all that bothered beyond immediate moment.
I don't dress up like a stormtrooper or play with dollies but I don't really have a problem with those who do either, live and let live tbh. I do enjoy watching sci-fi movies though so have every right to voice my dissatisfaction when I think someone has made a bad film in one of the sci-fi franchises that I like. If that makes me a nerd in your eyes than so be it, trust me I won't lose any sleep over it.Some of us simply find it a bit odd when adults want to buy and play with dollies and other children's toys though.
Reading kiddie magazines too. Then justifying it by suggesting they are the real fans and the producers of the films can thank them for wanting to play with dollies and not only bolstering profits but want everyone to know these films would never have been made without them. It's for this reason you get some of us posting multiple times, to poke fun at you.
But don't worry, it is only a fleeting thing in the moment when a Thread like this tops the table and is easily seen, lending itself to ridicule by those who see the fanboys getting all worked up about stuff all. Like all movies, Star Wars will be enjoyed, dismissed and disliked in various measure, equally some will want to dissect and get really serious about them and very disappointed and condemn aspects that don't live up to their personal expectation's. Apart from those pushing stupid agenda's, it is all good, no-one expects everyone to like everything.
And it's fine, dress up like a Jedi or a Stormtrooper and go and play but expect to be taken the mick out of if you start thinking that franchises only exist because of you and the merchandise you buy - you are just additional marketing tools. The vast majority of folks who buy the merch for their kids, watch the movies etc aren't all that bothered beyond immediate moment.
It's also the sci-fi fans and nerds that will continue to support a franchise like this, long after most people have moved on and is one of the main reasons why Star Wars is still a thing, 40 years on.
Your post is also a prime example of the type of dinosaur thinking that unfortunately is still all too prevalent in society. I've got some bad news for you though, nerds will inherit the earth, it's happening as we speak in fact. Some of the biggest companies in the world are tech companies run by the biggest (and richest) nerds in history, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Tesla to name but a few and guess what, they are turning a whole new generation of people into nerds so better get used to seeing a lot more of us around.
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