Game of Thrones - vol II - NO SPOILERS
Discussion
FourWheelDrift said:
Jim and Brian being daft during interviews 
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LEbbKktwL4
A joy. Brian is nutty and Jim is dry and foreign. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LEbbKktwL4funnily enough, I started watching this today
What Happened To These Characters? - Game of Thrones Season 8 (End Game)
https://youtu.be/WyTRWeUqtsU
What Happened To These Characters? - Game of Thrones Season 8 (End Game)
https://youtu.be/WyTRWeUqtsU
motorizer said:
It would have felt even more forced than it already did if they had tried to shoehorn in every person the main characters had met throughout the series....
It's unrealistic to expect everyone to either die or play a part in the story right to the end.
There would have been even more loose ends iif I had written it, on purpose.
The more I see vidoes like that the more it becomes obvious that people would have been unhappy with the ending whatever they did.
Yeah true. SOme characters we don't need to see. Jaquen for example. We don't even see him in the HOuse of B&W in the books.It's unrealistic to expect everyone to either die or play a part in the story right to the end.
There would have been even more loose ends iif I had written it, on purpose.
The more I see vidoes like that the more it becomes obvious that people would have been unhappy with the ending whatever they did.
Quaithe was a character that needed something more. THat's the problem with D&D not knowing who/what the secondary characters are.
Meera though, definitely, and probably Lord Glover too.
designforlife said:
I am by no means a GoT superfan, I actually don't rate it particularly highly at all as the "fantasy" series it's supposed to be, but as a political drama it's always more or less delivered.
I thought the same, the first, maybe the second time I read the books, until I realised what GRR had accomplished with it. It's more than a 'fantasy' work, and is so layered it's easy to understand the delays.JagLover said:
The reason why many love ASOIAF is its sense of historical realism.
For me, what elevates it above other 'fantasy/scifi/horror' works are the mysteries GRR has layered into the work. If I ever get the chance, one-in-one, I'd love to know the answers to a few questions I gave.JagLover said:
There are many mysteries in the books that are not flagged up as such but become so when you start thinking about them.
A few examples of the top of my head
The lemon trees Dany remembers from her childhood.
The story brought to Ned about conflict in the Riverlands.
Stuff like that yeah, as well as the obvious questions, like the book Roose finds in Harrenhal, but there are mysteries that you don't even exist if you are a casual reader. One that springs to mind is the mutiny at Craster's Keep, they are roasting (a large animal, forget which) and are eating with grease running down their arms, but they talk of starvation, and then mutiny. The actions depict one scene and the words another. One reason why GRR doesn't like the omniscient narrator.A few examples of the top of my head
The lemon trees Dany remembers from her childhood.
The story brought to Ned about conflict in the Riverlands.
blueg33 said:
Isn't Sansa fond of Lemon Cakes - a link to Dany or common ground?
GRR has created a situation where what we are told about Dani's early childhood by Viserys, doesn't wholly match up to Dani's personal memories.Vis says they spent all of her early childhood in Bravos. Dani remembers a red door and a lemon tree. Lemon trees don't grow in Bravos. THis isn't all in one paragraph, it's sprinkled through the whole series, like gems to uncover, along with dozens of others. It's partly why the editing takes so long. GRR can take years to edit. SO the clues/connections for the deeper readers add up.
otolith said:
In case you couldn't be bothered writing it out, pretty much what you were talking about.
Ah I see, I thought I had written out the bare bones. I didn't wanna put too much spin on it, I'm all for the reader to read the stuff and decide for themselves (like the ending of the Sopranos), some things GRR will never disclose. Probably save in person. THat guy uses the 'tinfoil' moniker quite a bit, and I think he misses the point on the Dorne, but he obviously loves the series enough to try and figure out the mysteries, which is good work for the mind, a brain needs books like a sword needs a whetstone etc. I think some people bring up the 'writer error' too much though, it would mean an awful lot of errors for such a careful and measured planner.I intend to start the series again, sometime in the autumn...with my third eye open.
I'm also gonna be 'close' to GRRs house at some point this year...I am tinkering with dropping by, like some mad fan....
Guvernator said:
The Hound was definitely one of my favourite characters throughout the show. Brutal and to the point. His "redemption" also played out very well IMO.
Plus I thought Cleganebowl was awesome, despite all the cool kids clamouring to say how rubbish it was.
Good old fashioned piece of brotherly hate theatre as far as I am concerned and the visuals where some of the best I've seen on screen.
I thought it looked extremely good, awesome even, but the cleganbowl was stupid and destroys the Hound's development. I won't denigrate the opinion of those who liked it though.Plus I thought Cleganebowl was awesome, despite all the cool kids clamouring to say how rubbish it was.
Good old fashioned piece of brotherly hate theatre as far as I am concerned and the visuals where some of the best I've seen on screen.StuTheGrouch said:
For me, the mountain caving in Oberyn's head was one of the most brutal scenes.
Ahh, er yeah, I forgot that, that was singularly the most revolting...I think...I've no doubt forgotten others.Alapeno said:
If we're doing brutal scenes...
The one that sticks with me is when the Hound rode down the Arya's friend, the butcher's boy and nearly cut him in half, just because he was there when Arya started fighting with Joffrey. Probably because it was early on and we hadn't gotten used to it yet.
We don't see that, but we do see him strapped across the Hound's horse like a hog.The one that sticks with me is when the Hound rode down the Arya's friend, the butcher's boy and nearly cut him in half, just because he was there when Arya started fighting with Joffrey. Probably because it was early on and we hadn't gotten used to it yet.
Guvernator said:
I've seen this said so often and I just don't get it tbh. Please explain your thinking, why was it stupid?
Is it because he allegedly gave up violence at one point? Surely you must realise that was the standard "I'm not gonna fight anymore" routine that we've seen so often and it was never going to stick, it never does. Cleganebowl was always going to happen as soon as it became a thing as far as I was concerned, nothing in the story that happened convinced otherwise.
Personally I would have found the Hound going off to settle down and disappearing into obscurity even more odd and hugely unsatisfying. He obviously had unresolved issues with his brother, it was never going to turn out that way. His redemption was saving Arya from turning into him, he was never going to save himself.
THis is probably most likely what happens in the book, as with a lot of things, it's ambiguous and only clear to rereads/closer reading etc. I don't know if you like mysteries but if you read the books you'll see.Is it because he allegedly gave up violence at one point? Surely you must realise that was the standard "I'm not gonna fight anymore" routine that we've seen so often and it was never going to stick, it never does. Cleganebowl was always going to happen as soon as it became a thing as far as I was concerned, nothing in the story that happened convinced otherwise.
Personally I would have found the Hound going off to settle down and disappearing into obscurity even more odd and hugely unsatisfying. He obviously had unresolved issues with his brother, it was never going to turn out that way. His redemption was saving Arya from turning into him, he was never going to save himself.
GRR was a conscientious objector, and is a huge anti-war/violence guy. A lot of his stories are about how stupid violence/war are, and those characters who learn are those who can break the cycle and remove themselves from it. In the book there is a famous monologue about what happens to men in war/who fight, this monk character most likely had contact with Hound and helped him grow beyond the cycle. The show had an analogous character played by Lovejoy, not quite the same words, but the same vibe maybe, however they went for fighting and killing and a return to the violence, ignoring what the stuff in the books was about instead and the HOund was like he had always been. I think the Hound sort of gave the same type speech to Arya, and she stopped her quest. It was interesting if sloppily handled. If Arya had then gone on to kill Cersei in some 'cool' way like some wanted it would have meant nothing. In Boardwalk Empire there is a brilliant character, the Tin Woodsman (can't recall name) he's a stone cold killer but ultimately he looses his nerve because he found other things in life. It's kind of similar to the Hound (book Hound) and is the best killer who grows turn I think I've seen in tvdom.
These are just my thoughts.
Basically thee is a killer who has a rebirth thanks to a death experience, and then becomes a different person, the tv sho ignores that and simply has HOund carry on as per.
Fundoreen said:
A few weeks have elapsed and its still terrible. Never knew that Kit was so emotionally tied. I guess he lived it over and above what a viewer would.
The only note of optimism is that one day in the future we will inevitably see a re-imagining of the whole thing to suit whatever the tastes are at that time.
It gets like that.The only note of optimism is that one day in the future we will inevitably see a re-imagining of the whole thing to suit whatever the tastes are at that time.
I doubt we'll see a retread for 20/30 years.
I've seen the 2 hour doc now, it was OK. I liked the irish guy who has been in it from the start.
AshVX220 said:
I found that documentary really interesting for so many reasons. Not being involved in this industry at all it was really good and very different from other "making of" documentaries I've seen, maybe because I've become so invested in it?
A couple of stand out moments for me;
The extra Andy McKlay [?], been in it from the beginning and clearly loved being involved, he got emotional when it concluded.
Kit, again, last scene he filmed and how emotional he got, but also the table read threw when he discovered Jon and Danearys' fate, he looked properly shocked and emotional at what his character will do.
Sansa, when she did the seen with Theon's body, they also showed her after the scene being attended by someone from and she was still crying, I guess when actor's build up such emotion for a scene and get so into it, it's hard to switch it off immediately after.
Also, when the Kights King was raising the dead, all the extra's had to lie there and then move wild holding there breath, as it was so cold their breath could be seen and they're supposed to be dead.
That was just a few of the most interesting bits for me, there were many more, it's well worth seeing I think.
yeah it is worth a watch.A couple of stand out moments for me;
The extra Andy McKlay [?], been in it from the beginning and clearly loved being involved, he got emotional when it concluded.
Kit, again, last scene he filmed and how emotional he got, but also the table read threw when he discovered Jon and Danearys' fate, he looked properly shocked and emotional at what his character will do.
Sansa, when she did the seen with Theon's body, they also showed her after the scene being attended by someone from and she was still crying, I guess when actor's build up such emotion for a scene and get so into it, it's hard to switch it off immediately after.
Also, when the Kights King was raising the dead, all the extra's had to lie there and then move wild holding there breath, as it was so cold their breath could be seen and they're supposed to be dead.
That was just a few of the most interesting bits for me, there were many more, it's well worth seeing I think.
motorizer said:
I don't think any of the fans wanted the mountain to squish Oberyn's head....and yet it's one of the show's most iconic moments.
The early seasons often felt like the history of a real place rather than a made up story. Fan service isn't neccessarily bad, but it shoudn't be number one priority.
If it had all been fan service from the start we'd have had Ned Stark vs Jamie vs Khal Drogo for the final battle.....
It's quite possible that that article on how the show moved from sociological to psychological has some merit.The early seasons often felt like the history of a real place rather than a made up story. Fan service isn't neccessarily bad, but it shoudn't be number one priority.
If it had all been fan service from the start we'd have had Ned Stark vs Jamie vs Khal Drogo for the final battle.....
I suppose it comes down to whether it's gratuitous or not. If it fits the character, or it fits the arc/narrative, or if it's just inserted to make people pop, ignoring any story beforehand and what has been transgressing. The trouble with some aspects of how the shows went was that it ignored what had gone before, for cheap 'cool' shots. That's very modern hollywood and not what GoT S1-5 was about.
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