Council charges for use of public parks
Discussion
I know it is the Daily Wail, but nonetheless the substance seems real enough. A London Council has started charging those who are, in any way, "earning money" through their use of a public park: a nanny walking her charge, a dog-walker charging for dog-walking services, a personal trainer taking a client on a run through the park, that sort of thing. £350 per year for the privilege, allegedly.
Is it just me, or is this just laughably cretinous?
Link to story
Is it just me, or is this just laughably cretinous?
Link to story
Where to draw the line though? What if someone is running a class for 10 people? What if everyone just freeloaded and moved in their businesses to council land? Mechanics setting up all their tools and servicing cars in the park? If you had an office based business you wouldn't expect just to come into a council office and take a desk for free and make money from it.
andr3w said:
Where to draw the line though? What if someone is running a class for 10 people? What if everyone just freeloaded and moved in their businesses to council land? Mechanics setting up all their tools and servicing cars in the park? If you had an office based business you wouldn't expect just to come into a council office and take a desk for free and make money from it.
The case of the mechanic would be dealt with under planning law, not to mention access arrangements, health and safety legislation, and a host of other issues. The same would be true for most examples one could come up with of "extreme abuses" of council land.I would draw the line at those tasks for which the park was "incidental" as opposed to "necessary" in the way in which it was used. A nanny walking her charge is clearly not relying upon the park in order to make a living but, instead, is using it in the same way she would for her own children. She is carrying out the same tasks that her customer would carry out, if they had the time.
Similarly, a personal trainer coaching their client on running through the park, when the client might very well be exercising in the park in any case, is similarly not using the park as a "necessary" part of their business.
To be honest, I haven't seen any need to codify this hiterto, because I haven't seen any widespread problem. I see no evidence now of a problem, either; this smacks purely of a combination of "easy money" and a desire to over-regulate.
If this sort of Council nonsense is going to continue, I'd like to see Parliament declaring all current public parks Common Lands, with nonetheless a repairing and maintaining obligation upon the local Council. Otherwise, where will this end? If I take my laptop and mobile phone into my local park in order to make a few business calls in the afternoon, should I be charged, too?
Dont see a problem with it to be honest, if your running a business on council run land why not,
I strongly suspect it will only be fitness trainers and possibly professional dog walkers, I genuinely cannot see 'parkies' or wardens checking for pram pushing nannies, that smacks of Daily Mail overkill
I strongly suspect it will only be fitness trainers and possibly professional dog walkers, I genuinely cannot see 'parkies' or wardens checking for pram pushing nannies, that smacks of Daily Mail overkill
A local fitness trainer has started taking classes in our local park, when the weather is good. He brings his class out from a nearby commercial sports centre, and they do their fitness regime on the parkland. There must be 60 people when its busy, doing high impact aerobic workouts and martial arts.
I'm guessing he doesnt pay for the privelidge, but I've got no problem with it. He uses park land thats there for the general public, and its the general public that go to his classes. I'm guessing it could be argued that seeing people do this might motivate others to join, which would be good, and that also they aren't using up resources like Air conditioning in their own gym ammenities.
Its more than a bit cheeky fo rthe council to charge people for ammenities that have already been provided by the people that pay for them in the first place. Different if they were being used for incompatible uses, but the councils should remmebr that they dont own these facilities, the people own them.
I'm guessing he doesnt pay for the privelidge, but I've got no problem with it. He uses park land thats there for the general public, and its the general public that go to his classes. I'm guessing it could be argued that seeing people do this might motivate others to join, which would be good, and that also they aren't using up resources like Air conditioning in their own gym ammenities.
Its more than a bit cheeky fo rthe council to charge people for ammenities that have already been provided by the people that pay for them in the first place. Different if they were being used for incompatible uses, but the councils should remmebr that they dont own these facilities, the people own them.
andr3w said:
Where to draw the line though? What if someone is running a class for 10 people? What if everyone just freeloaded and moved in their businesses to council land? Mechanics setting up all their tools and servicing cars in the park? If you had an office based business you wouldn't expect just to come into a council office and take a desk for free and make money from it.
You draw the line on using facilties for their rightful purposes. Your arguement about a mechanic is plainly stupid. But someone using a park to get exercise and fresh air, even if paying a personal trainer to help them, is suitable use of facilities.Ever take a business call on your mobile whilst out of the office? Surely, with your arguement, you should be paying for doing that?
I am just finishing reading a dissertation from a student who asked walkers on the West Highland Way how their mood was during the various stages of the walk.
It shows that the more time people spend outdoors exercising, the better they feel.
So now we are going to tax it - you really couldn't make it up!
It shows that the more time people spend outdoors exercising, the better they feel.
So now we are going to tax it - you really couldn't make it up!
Many years back a school headmaster was using our local park for his pupils to take their exercise, regular basis every week it transpires. The Council decided that use of its grass running track and goal mouths was costing ratepayers money, it introduced a reasonable charge to cover this expenditure. The school Headmaster declined to pay and was, as a result of non payment, barred from use of facilities. Seemed to me to be fair as the Council were charging rate payers for use of other sports facilities. Given that the Headmaster was running his own business as a private school, and using public service property as part of his business, what else could he expect but to be charged a fee for use of facilities?
crankedup said:
Many years back a school headmaster was using our local park for his pupils to take their exercise, regular basis every week it transpires. The Council decided that use of its grass running track and goal mouths was costing ratepayers money, it introduced a reasonable charge to cover this expenditure. The school Headmaster declined to pay and was, as a result of non payment, barred from use of facilities. Seemed to me to be fair as the Council were charging rate payers for use of other sports facilities. Given that the Headmaster was running his own business as a private school, and using public service property as part of his business, what else could he expect but to be charged a fee for use of facilities?
Most private schools are charities. Not all, and this one may not have been, but most are. The Charity Commission now expects private schools to make things like their sports facilities available to the general public, without charge.The pupils are "members of the public". As such IMHO they have every right to use the sports facilities. If somebody other than the Council is going to pay for proper training and supervision of them then so much the better!
"Mr Mucha, who charges clients around £45 an hour, said the warden ‘asked if I had got the licence to be in the park.."
I'm guessing that the money wont be used to properly train f
kwits in uniforms who 'patrol' these parks. This country and society gets worse by the second it seems, the only thing important is money. Look like your're doing well? fk you , give us your money. Want to give yourself a leg up in life? fk you give us your money. Business taking off and might provide you with a living? fk you give use your money.
Councils, regardless of their political colour are pretty much run by power crazed sociopathic criminals who care nothing for the communities they represent. In the worst recession since the war, what have the local council done where I live? Put up five new signs for the village when there was nothing wrong with the old ones in anyway. Plus a few 30mph signs that light up, in parts that people didnt speed though in the first place. What a criminal waste of public money.
Money is obviousley an important part of life, but the persuit of it at all costs and the way people now see it as the only thing required to be considered a success is terrible. They way councils and governments go after out cash is nothing sort of mental illness. As a poster on another thread said. Government is ther to facilitate our journey through life, not place ever increasing obsticales in our way and regulate our lives to the hilt. Public unrest can't come soon enough.
I'm guessing that the money wont be used to properly train f
kwits in uniforms who 'patrol' these parks. This country and society gets worse by the second it seems, the only thing important is money. Look like your're doing well? fk you , give us your money. Want to give yourself a leg up in life? fk you give us your money. Business taking off and might provide you with a living? fk you give use your money. Councils, regardless of their political colour are pretty much run by power crazed sociopathic criminals who care nothing for the communities they represent. In the worst recession since the war, what have the local council done where I live? Put up five new signs for the village when there was nothing wrong with the old ones in anyway. Plus a few 30mph signs that light up, in parts that people didnt speed though in the first place. What a criminal waste of public money.
Money is obviousley an important part of life, but the persuit of it at all costs and the way people now see it as the only thing required to be considered a success is terrible. They way councils and governments go after out cash is nothing sort of mental illness. As a poster on another thread said. Government is ther to facilitate our journey through life, not place ever increasing obsticales in our way and regulate our lives to the hilt. Public unrest can't come soon enough.
SON IS 'A MEMBER OF PUBLIC'
skwdenyer said:
Most private schools are charities. Not all, and this one may not have been, but most are. The Charity Commission now expects private schools to make things like their sports facilities available to the general public, without charge.
The pupils are "members of the public". As such IMHO they have every right to use the sports facilities. If somebody other than the Council is going to pay for proper training and supervision of them then so much the better!
Its a wind up reply right? The private school referenced to in my comment is a 'for profit' school. As such by the FOC use of publicly owned facilities is simply asking the rate payer to subsidise their business. I don't think this would be tolerated anywhere by rate payers who are in their right mind. Every person is a member of public, would you defend such a person the right to free use of office equipment in a Police Station for example.? The pupils are "members of the public". As such IMHO they have every right to use the sports facilities. If somebody other than the Council is going to pay for proper training and supervision of them then so much the better!
neilr said:
"Mr Mucha, who charges clients around £45 an hour, said the warden ‘asked if I had got the licence to be in the park.."
I'm guessing that the money wont be used to properly train fkwits in uniforms who 'patrol' these parks. This country and society gets worse by the second it seems, the only thing important is money. Look like your're doing well? fk you , give us your money. Want to give yourself a leg up in life? fk you give us your money. Business taking off and might provide you with a living? fk you give use your money.
Councils, regardless of their political colour are pretty much run by power crazed sociopathic criminals who care nothing for the communities they represent. In the worst recession since the war, what have the local council done where I live? Put up five new signs for the village when there was nothing wrong with the old ones in anyway. Plus a few 30mph signs that light up, in parts that people didnt speed though in the first place. What a criminal waste of public money.
Money is obviousley an important part of life, but the persuit of it at all costs and the way people now see it as the only thing required to be considered a success is terrible. They way councils and governments go after out cash is nothing sort of mental illness. As a poster on another thread said. Government is ther to facilitate our journey through life, not place ever increasing obsticales in our way and regulate our lives to the hilt. Public unrest can't come soon enough.
Good luck in leading it!I'm guessing that the money wont be used to properly train f
kwits in uniforms who 'patrol' these parks. This country and society gets worse by the second it seems, the only thing important is money. Look like your're doing well? fk you , give us your money. Want to give yourself a leg up in life? fk you give us your money. Business taking off and might provide you with a living? fk you give use your money. Councils, regardless of their political colour are pretty much run by power crazed sociopathic criminals who care nothing for the communities they represent. In the worst recession since the war, what have the local council done where I live? Put up five new signs for the village when there was nothing wrong with the old ones in anyway. Plus a few 30mph signs that light up, in parts that people didnt speed though in the first place. What a criminal waste of public money.
Money is obviousley an important part of life, but the persuit of it at all costs and the way people now see it as the only thing required to be considered a success is terrible. They way councils and governments go after out cash is nothing sort of mental illness. As a poster on another thread said. Government is ther to facilitate our journey through life, not place ever increasing obsticales in our way and regulate our lives to the hilt. Public unrest can't come soon enough.
This story really is boiling my piss.
Its a perfect example of the depths the money grabbing council will go to, to squeeze a couple of extra ££ out of us.
I cant be bothered comparing scenarios but FFS - charging people to exercise outdoors?
Its a perfect example of the depths the money grabbing council will go to, to squeeze a couple of extra ££ out of us.
I cant be bothered comparing scenarios but FFS - charging people to exercise outdoors?
Edited by Torquey on Wednesday 27th April 16:27
Is this really an issue?
A PT taking individual bookings would be charged £350 per annum. That's under £30 per month, which is the square root of fk all for a successful PT...
One on this morning's news said that as he takes groups 'of up to 40 people, for a couple of hours a day' he'd be charged IIRC, £1200 per annum.
£100 per month to pay for 1000 hours of use (based on a average group of 25, for 2 hours a weekday) is to my mind bloody good value. How much would a leisure centre charge for those 40 hours a month? A damn sight more than that, for a room capable of handling 25 - 40 people....
Plus, what about the other users of the park? 25 people paying for an hours run are unlikely to be the most considerate people in the world.
Little old granny taking her daily stroll, only to come across a mob of people running towards her, with a PT alongside barking encouragement. Nice.
Lastly, if parks are there for all, to do as they please with (legally and within reason), what do you think the reaction would be from Mr PT if I decided I was going to tag along, or join in with the excercises on the field? I'd imagine I'd be told to fk off sharpish, otherwise, why are people paying the PT?
A PT taking individual bookings would be charged £350 per annum. That's under £30 per month, which is the square root of f
k all for a successful PT... One on this morning's news said that as he takes groups 'of up to 40 people, for a couple of hours a day' he'd be charged IIRC, £1200 per annum.
£100 per month to pay for 1000 hours of use (based on a average group of 25, for 2 hours a weekday) is to my mind bloody good value. How much would a leisure centre charge for those 40 hours a month? A damn sight more than that, for a room capable of handling 25 - 40 people....
Plus, what about the other users of the park? 25 people paying for an hours run are unlikely to be the most considerate people in the world.
Little old granny taking her daily stroll, only to come across a mob of people running towards her, with a PT alongside barking encouragement. Nice.
Lastly, if parks are there for all, to do as they please with (legally and within reason), what do you think the reaction would be from Mr PT if I decided I was going to tag along, or join in with the excercises on the field? I'd imagine I'd be told to f
k off sharpish, otherwise, why are people paying the PT? crankedup said:
We are all going to have to get used to it, as Councils are apparently finding themselves short of cash they will inevitably become increasingly creative in finding ways to extract our cash.
Yep. When you're ste at running an authority because, frankly, you haven't had to and your job was to just get by and think up new ways of wasting taxpayers' money, especially if you had money spare, it's far easier to increase taxes than to streamline without making any cuts. 
That's what I think, but, of course, at one local council, maybe the branded motivational chocolates I saw were imaginary. And that's just the start.This is a weird one.
Part of me thinks that yes, fine, if someone's making money from the park then perhaps it's only right that they pay a contribution the same as, say, a fast food vendor would.
On the other hand though, it does seem a potential way of creating non-jobs as, presumably, someone has to enforce and administer all of this.
Part of me thinks that yes, fine, if someone's making money from the park then perhaps it's only right that they pay a contribution the same as, say, a fast food vendor would.
On the other hand though, it does seem a potential way of creating non-jobs as, presumably, someone has to enforce and administer all of this.
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