Alan Hansen apologises for using the 'C' word on tele...

[paddyhasneeds]

mrmr96 said:

I have close member of my family who uses a wheelchair, so I probably have given it a bit more thought.

Would they be offended by the term "wheelchair bound"?

I do agree there is, of course, a difference between someone who has no choice and someone who has limited mobility and uses a wheelchair some of the time.

You've hit the nail on the head whether it's colour, race, wheelchairs, epilepsy, which is that if it's something that affects you, you'll give it more thought than most other people - which is why it's a bit bizarre when you see these media witch hunts where it's clear to anyone with half a brain that no offence was intended.

[Munter]

TheHeretic said:

mrmr96 said:

There's a subtle difference between "She is Italian" and "She is an Italian".

Jeez... I have a fked ankle, and limp sometimes... Would you describe me as having a limp, or being with limp? Be careful, I may be offended.

Is Crip out then?

this is a joke and not serious. Oh ffs even jokes have to have disclaimers on them now.

[MX7]

mrmr96 said:

Yes.

Saying "She is Italian" would mean to me that you're telling me her nationality and nothing else.
Saying "She is an Italian" would mean to me that you're telling me about her nature as a result of her nationality.

Maybe that's my problem not your problem? Because from what you've said, I take it that you'd use the phrases interchangeably and I would therefore be getting the wrong end of the stick by reading more into what was said than what was intended.

Wow. Yes, to me, there is no difference implied or otherwise.

[TheHeretic]

Munter said:

Is Crip out then?

this is a joke and not serious. Oh ffs even jokes have to have disclaimers on them now.

Right, you'll be hearing from my solicitor, he deals with these cripple cases... Oh, I've gone and said it! Damn...

[mrmr96]

paddyhasneeds said:

mrmr96 said:

I have close member of my family who uses a wheelchair, so I probably have given it a bit more thought.

Would they be offended by the term "wheelchair bound"?

I do agree there is, of course, a difference between someone who has no choice and someone who has limited mobility and uses a wheelchair some of the time.

You've hit the nail on the head whether it's colour, race, wheelchairs, epilepsy, which is that if it's something that affects you, you'll give it more thought than most other people - which is why it's a bit bizarre when you see these media witch hunts where it's clear to anyone with half a brain that no offence was intended.

I think that if no offence it intended then no offence should be taken. And that goes for pretty much anything other than the most crass of comments.

I can't speak for her and say whether she'd find it offensive to be called "wheelchair bound". I don't like it myself because I feel that it's inaccurate, as she uses her wheelchair to get about outside, but will come and join us on the sofa etc when we're at home. I'm not one of these hand wringers who will get exceedingly upset on someone else's behalf, unless I felt that they had been offended but were too meek to stand up for themselves, which would be pretty rare.

So if we're out and about and someone who rarely encounters a wheelchair uses uses a "wrong phrase" or whatever, I'll know that no offence was intended, and so none would be taken. The only reason for speaking out about my feelings on the subtle differences is because we have this thread running that discusses them. Anywhere else and I'd let them pass by without a seccond though as no offence was intended.

[mrmr96]

MX7 said:

mrmr96 said:

Yes.

Saying "She is Italian" would mean to me that you're telling me her nationality and nothing else.
Saying "She is an Italian" would mean to me that you're telling me about her nature as a result of her nationality.

Maybe that's my problem not your problem? Because from what you've said, I take it that you'd use the phrases interchangeably and I would therefore be getting the wrong end of the stick by reading more into what was said than what was intended.

Wow. Yes, to me, there is no difference implied or otherwise.

Fair enough, I guess that's part of the fun of language!

[JuniorD]

shauniebabes said:

Its all explained in this handy offical guide:

http://www.wcheshirepct.nhs.uk/downloader.asp?file...

That's quality.

Strangely, in the contents, under Race and Ethnicity they have a list of all sorts of races/ethicities including 6.4 'Rotherham'.

However subpara in the body text 6.4 has the title 'Black'. Either someone has fked up the document or Rotherham is like downtown Lagos. I don't know, I've never been to Rotherham! But talk about tarring Rotherham people with the same brush

[carmonk]

paddyhasneeds said:

You've hit the nail on the head whether it's colour, race, wheelchairs, epilepsy, which is that if it's something that affects you, you'll give it more thought than most other people

Why would anybody consider themselves 'affected' by race? Conversely, isn't everyone? In my mind it's not even the same discussion as disability and I don't give it any thought. If a black / brown / white person is sensitive about their race for whatever reason then that's their problem, I'm not going to pussyfoot around them.

[Murph7355]

JuniorD said:

That's quality.

Strangely, in the contents, under Race and Ethnicity they have a list of all sorts of races/ethicities including 6.4 'Rotherham'.

However subpara in the body text 6.4 has the title 'Black'. Either someone has fked up the document or Rotherham is like downtown Lagos. I don't know, I've never been to Rotherham! But talk about tarring Rotherham people with the same brush

To be fair one of the most offensive things you could say to me would be to say I was from Rotherham

[Kinky]

shauniebabes said:

Its all explained in this handy offical guide:

http://www.wcheshirepct.nhs.uk/downloader.asp?file...

Quite interesting. Relating to Irish people, it says:

NHS guide said:

It is unacceptable to use certain terms to describe people from these groups, for example, 'paddy' to denote a person of Irish ethnic origin. Even though many people do not consider terms such as this racist, they are defined as racist and illegal under the Race Relations Act 1976.

Being Irish myself (and proud of it), I have absolutely no qualms about being called Paddy, or 'a/the paddy'. Same goes for 'Mick'. Even some of my fellow PHers call me that. My Chinese mates call me a 'honkey'. Again, I'm not fussed in the slightest.

Perhaps I go against the grain here?

Or perhaps, more realistically, this is real life; and not some ideal.

[paddyhasneeds]

carmonk said:

paddyhasneeds said:

You've hit the nail on the head whether it's colour, race, wheelchairs, epilepsy, which is that if it's something that affects you, you'll give it more thought than most other people

Why would anybody consider themselves 'affected' by race? Conversely, isn't everyone? In my mind it's not even the same discussion as disability and I don't give it any thought. If a black / brown / white person is sensitive about their race for whatever reason then that's their problem, I'm not going to pussyfoot around them.

In the sense that if you're black you may give more thought to how others refer to black people than a white person give it.

I'm white so might be particularly bothered by different ways of referring to white people whilst a black person would just call us all white without giving it a second thought.

Come to think of it, am I white, caucasion, anglo-saxon.. fking hell I don't even know myself so how is anyone else supposed to?!

[mybrainhurts]

paddyhasneeds said:

I don't even know myself

You don't want to know yourself, it makes you go blind...

[Munter]

paddyhasneeds said:

Come to think of it, am I white, caucasion, anglo-saxon.. fking hell I don't even know myself so how is anyone else supposed to?!

Well White and caucasion are the same thing I think. Anglo-saxon is a subset. So basically you're White British.

I would question though if you are completely Anglo-Saxon though. My mother has us traced back to being farm workers in the 1500s (I think. Could be 1700s) all apparently good British stock. But clearly there are a few bds in the line when you look at the dates of birth and when the men were away/killed in wars and wives re-married etc...

[Miguel Alvarez]

Kinky said:

Being Irish myself (and proud of it), I have absolutely no qualms about being called Paddy, or 'a/the paddy'. Same goes for 'Mick'. Even some of my fellow PHers call me that. My Chinese mates call me a 'honkey'. Again, I'm not fussed in he slightest.

Perhaps I go against the grain here?

Or perhaps, more realistically, this is real life; and not some ideal.

I think context is an issue. Some of my white friends can and have said what would be to someone outside of our circle shocking things to me. I give as good as I get. We're friends. We know each other and never is any harm felt. If I was in an unfamiliar setting and someone I didn't know said something I'd react differently.

Adding my tuppence to this thread. I wouldn't have taken offence at what Alan said. He's an old guy it was an acceptable term at the time when he was growing up. The whole context of what he was saying is fine.

[mrmr96]

Miguel Alvarez said:

Kinky said:

Being Irish myself (and proud of it), I have absolutely no qualms about being called Paddy, or 'a/the paddy'. Same goes for 'Mick'. Even some of my fellow PHers call me that. My Chinese mates call me a 'honkey'. Again, I'm not fussed in he slightest.

Perhaps I go against the grain here?

Or perhaps, more realistically, this is real life; and not some ideal.

I think context is an issue. Some of my white friends can and have said what would be to someone outside of our circle shocking things to me. I give as good as I get. We're friends. We know each other and never is any harm felt. If I was in an unfamiliar setting and someone I didn't know said something I'd react differently.

Adding my tuppence to this thread. I wouldn't have taken offence at what Alan said. He's an old guy it was an acceptable term at the time when he was growing up. The whole context of what he was saying is fine.

Exactly the point I made earlier: that if no offence was intended then none shoul be taken in all but the most crass of comments.

[Thom987]

Reading the title of the thread you would think Hansen called someone a . Will this polically correct madness ever stop?

[-Pete-]

How about "Different reflected wavelength people" ?
Or pantone colours... http://shop.colourconfidence.com/product.php/3742/...

[monkey gland]

I'm sure the Major from Fawlty Towers would have a thing or two to say about this nonsense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s4BqzHEK6o

[GestapoWatch]

Would have loved Hansen to shoot down in the flames the professionally offended imbeciles that infect the world, but unfortunately the BBC and/or a publicist will have advised otherwise and so the wheels keep turning and this cretinous stupid st is somehow justified once again.

Meanwhile in America (shock horror) court cases over Christmas (sorry Holiday) phrases, associations etc. are currently underway as they are every year. To think South Park dealt with this in 1997 and it still goes on.

I truly and utterly despair at this hand-wringing, yoghurt knitting mess of a world where nonsense like this continues to be perpetuated by complete morons who have fd all better to do with their sad little lives

[ClintonB]

GestapoWatch said:

Would have loved Hansen to shoot down in the flames the professionally offended imbeciles that infect the world, but unfortunately the BBC and/or a publicist will have advised otherwise and so the wheels keep turning and this cretinous stupid st is somehow justified once again.

Meanwhile in America (shock horror) court cases over Christmas (sorry Holiday) phrases, associations etc. are currently underway as they are every year. To think South Park dealt with this in 1997 and it still goes on.

I truly and utterly despair at this hand-wringing, yoghurt knitting mess of a world where nonsense like this continues to be perpetuated by complete morons who have fd all better to do with their sad little lives

So would I. A little common sense & perspective really would do wonders. Far, far worse things are given & received as 'armless banter, people die at war etc. Hell, how does Hansen & the new c-word is c-word compare to Eto'o @ Zaragoza, a million other things and even Futurama references to honkeyness! (which is, BTW a cracking episode). A slight faux pas, I guess if not 100% PC literate, otherwise? ??

However, at the same time, we live in a world of uneducated Meldrews (or Garnetts). Those who wish to carry the cross (any cross), but also the Asda-mong. I cringed when Wigan fans gave Suarez the bird - yes I'm fully aware why, but at the same time, Wigan is VERY white and not exactly short of BNP support. Still, intelligence is probably in shorter supply in 'ickle Wiggin than diversity.

Edited by ClintonB on Saturday 24th December 03:01