Trump son on safari kills variety of wildlife...
Discussion
just me said:
carmonk said:
This one certainly doesn't paint a thousand words, it paints one, and that word is 'prick'. I don't see the breeding issue as relevant, my main point is regarding the people that partake in this 'sport'. Cowardly and pathetic beyond words, with a spattering of mental illness thrown in for good measure. Hunting for food or pest control is one thing, cowering in a covered vehicle behind bodyguards whilst gunning down fine animals like that is entirely another.
Agree 100%. They could inject just as much, if not more, money simply by donating it. Or, if they wanted to feel more "involved", they could render service like the missionaries, or work with some charity organization. Why kill a beautiful animal? Why not work towards creating more habitat for them so that "manageable numbers" can be increased?
Stupid, cowardly cretins.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-sto...
carmonk said:
Who said I was an expert? Not me, I made it very clear I got my info from TV documentaries. And bear in mind we're talking about rich foreigners who 'hunt' off the back of organised tours. If you have evidence that these tours are conducted in a substantially different way to what I described then post it up.
I have the evidence of my own experience, as well as over ten years of interest in the subject which included talking to lots of hunters - amatuer, clients and professionals alike, as well as rather a lot of reading on the subject.carmonk said:
It's not danger, it doesn't even approximate to danger. They have more chance of being killed in a car crash on the way from the airport than being killed by a wild animal. They might think it's dangerous because the greatest threat they've encountered in the past is a malfunctioning photocopier but it's a subjective opinion few would share.
The PH's job is to get the client close enough to the animal in order to be able to take a humane shot. Being that close to any of the big five is inherently dangerous. However another part of the PH's job is to keep or get the client out of unneccessary trouble. But I'm not sure where you are going with this. Are you saying hunting can only be validated if the hunters are killed as well? Because there isn't a lot of danger in hunting plains game, or stalking deer or shooting pigeons and rabbits.carmonk said:
If the villagers need food then I'm sure there's a very simple way around this, assuming the will to make it happen. Firearms are no doubt controlled partially in order to preserve game for the rich paying customers, so they can leave the hungry villagers a boot-imprinted carcass when the photo opportunity's over and con themselves into believing they're not just self-obsessed cowards.
I've already said that giving locals food is a by-product of trophy hunting. And yes, controlling access to hunting is partly to preserve game for rich paying customers. Thats because they inject the cash into the local economies that pays for conservation projects and makes the conservation of wildlife an economically viable thing for a poor country to do. Edited by BruceV8 on Saturday 17th March 17:03
just me said:
They could inject just as much, if not more, money simply by donating it. Or, if they wanted to feel more "involved", they could render service like the missionaries, or work with some charity organization.
How do you know they don't? Besides, we have seen all too well what happens in Africa when you give loads of cash for nothing in return in the hope that something nice will be done with it.just me said:
Why kill a beautiful animal? Why not work towards creating more habitat for them so that "manageable numbers" can be increased?
Because thats not how the world works. How are you going to persuade people to give up productive land if there's nothing in it for them? As I've said already, hunting makes conservation economically viable. I think the guy just looks a 
.
I'm not particularly anti-bloodsports/hunting, I've done stalking, poaching, vermin control etc in my time, but I don't take pictures and pretend it's something to be proud (or not proud of). It just is. Especially if that's how you justify it.
Take pride in a clean necessary kill, not in having killed.
The only thing I'd say about 'Big Game Hunting' is the story of Lofty Large, a member of the forces in the fifties/sixties who did a stint in Kenya. To paraphrase:
"We had learnt to move in a patrol very quietly through the bush and used to move large distances at night, during this time we used to quite commonly come across wildlife, including game and cats; almost stumbling into them. It occurred to us that the stories of the game hunters being very skilled were perhaps exaggerated, as it seemed to us no more difficult than shooting a cow in a field"
These views were mentioned in a pub later iirc, from where they were all barred as they raised the hackles of those hunters present.
Perhaps it is a little harder than hitting a cows arse with a banjo, but posing for pictures like this is just a lack of understanding and a desire to showboat. That's the part that rubs me up the wrong way.
Anyway, eels for his pot, pheasant for mine...
. I'm not particularly anti-bloodsports/hunting, I've done stalking, poaching, vermin control etc in my time, but I don't take pictures and pretend it's something to be proud (or not proud of). It just is. Especially if that's how you justify it.
Take pride in a clean necessary kill, not in having killed.
The only thing I'd say about 'Big Game Hunting' is the story of Lofty Large, a member of the forces in the fifties/sixties who did a stint in Kenya. To paraphrase:
"We had learnt to move in a patrol very quietly through the bush and used to move large distances at night, during this time we used to quite commonly come across wildlife, including game and cats; almost stumbling into them. It occurred to us that the stories of the game hunters being very skilled were perhaps exaggerated, as it seemed to us no more difficult than shooting a cow in a field"
These views were mentioned in a pub later iirc, from where they were all barred as they raised the hackles of those hunters present.
Perhaps it is a little harder than hitting a cows arse with a banjo, but posing for pictures like this is just a lack of understanding and a desire to showboat. That's the part that rubs me up the wrong way.
Anyway, eels for his pot, pheasant for mine...
Edited by andy_s on Saturday 17th March 18:11
Fair enough, but nearly everyone I know who hunts - certainly for trophies - has pictures taken of the kill. That includes people who stalk deer in the UK. I don't see a problem with it, but each to their own.
As far as what Lofty Large says, I'm not so sure. I think it depends on the animal population. In areas that are frequented by tourists for example, most animals ignore people and vehicles as they are used to them and see them neither as a threat or as food (although on my game ranger course in the Kruger Park we got very close to leopard and lion in open top Land Rovers. The instructors said they would ignore us in the vehicle, perhaps not being able to distinguish between vehicle and soft pink fleshy thing, but if anyone jumped off the vehicle they would have been eaten). In areas that are hunted, or heavily predated, the wildlife are much more wary of humans. Its even been reported that wildlfe behave differntly when they see people with firearms and those without.
I'm assuming that Large was operating in Kenya during the Mau Mau emergency when most hunting ceased. Moreover, he was moving at night. Nearly all hunting is done by day when animals are more wary - which is slightly ironic as most cats hunt at night.
As far as what Lofty Large says, I'm not so sure. I think it depends on the animal population. In areas that are frequented by tourists for example, most animals ignore people and vehicles as they are used to them and see them neither as a threat or as food (although on my game ranger course in the Kruger Park we got very close to leopard and lion in open top Land Rovers. The instructors said they would ignore us in the vehicle, perhaps not being able to distinguish between vehicle and soft pink fleshy thing, but if anyone jumped off the vehicle they would have been eaten). In areas that are hunted, or heavily predated, the wildlife are much more wary of humans. Its even been reported that wildlfe behave differntly when they see people with firearms and those without.
I'm assuming that Large was operating in Kenya during the Mau Mau emergency when most hunting ceased. Moreover, he was moving at night. Nearly all hunting is done by day when animals are more wary - which is slightly ironic as most cats hunt at night.
Kawasicki said:
I once heard an argument that there are vast swathes of wild unspoiled land in the US that make money through hunting that would otherwise be another field full for growing cereals.
I'm not sure thats true. Also, all that "wild unspoiled land" is going to be private, so you can enjoy it as you drive past, but nothing more.It does sound like a good read. Just to add, Large may well have underestimated his own level of skill. If he and his blokes had been trogging about the bush for ages, covertly enough to not alarm the Mau Mau who were, in the main, rural Kikuy people, they would have got pretty good at it - perhaps without even noticing.
carmonk said:
Pity he didn't start with that furry abortion on his dad's head.
True that! 
I found out, through actually watching someone "investigate" his hair in person, that that is his real hair. More shocking is that he has a pretty forward hairline but he feathers it up making it look like a combover. WTF? Anyway, OT.....sorry. 
BruceV8 said:
VinceFox said:
Your Donald Trump's son. You're worth a fortune. You could do any number of amazing things and you choose to stand there holding up the carcasses of a variety of wildlife that you then use the thinnest of excuses (we gave the meat to the locals) to justify it.
'Scuse me, i'm just off to watch President Obama's whitehouse corresponants speech again.
And? I'm still not getting your point. 'Scuse me, i'm just off to watch President Obama's whitehouse corresponants speech again.
Edited by Jimbeaux on Sunday 18th March 21:07
VinceFox said:
Pesty said:
We never will unless you tell us or are we just supposed to guess?
I object massively to an animal being killed for sport. Simple enough for you?I've heard all the arguments, many, many times but fundamentally i find the idea repulsive. I appreciate there is now going to be a massive clamour for man points at my expense, but that's my view. Enjoy.
carmonk said:
BruceV8 said:
carmonk said:
BruceV8 said:
carmonk said:
cowering in a covered vehicle behind bodyguards whilst gunning down fine animals
What makes you think this is how the hunting was conducted?I agree that that 'hunting' conducted in the way you describe is unethical and no self respecting hunter would want to do it like that. But we have no evidence that Trump hunted like that.
And I think the distinction between trophy hunting and hunting to give villagers food is not valid one. Give the villagers a gun and they could go out and shoot their own food, they don't need to wait around starving until some pale-faced daddy's boy shows up to save the day. It's just an excuse to justify the participants' inadequacies.
Jasandjules said:
VinceFox said:
Very, very hard to find common ground on bloodsports.
Not really a "sport" though at all......sport (sprt, sprt)
n.
1.
a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
b. A particular form of this activity.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
3. An active pastime; recreation.
"sport" evokes images of fairness in competition, leading to a "win" by the more capable party/team, or a challenging activity that takes dedication for mastery. Hardly fair to shoot down an animal with a high-velocity round. Hardly challenging too, with seasoned hunters telling you when to pull the trigger.
So, not really sporting.
So, not really sporting.
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