Russel Brand.....on drugs......in parliment
Discussion
So f
k it, this in itself is an additcion!
In response to the acid is great comment, I'll tell you a story.
Me and some mates from college dropped some acid one night with a guy, let's call him John, who done acid with us before, we knew him well. The plan, as always, was to watch some telly, argue about whether Carl Cox or jimi hendrix should go on the stereo, try to play chess, look at the back of our hands etc... as you do. So we each dropped a strawberry, sat back and waited.
John was a strange kid at the best of times, an over achiever from a poor background, very good at sport, into hardcore dance music and a bit of a hit with the girls, he was a good kid, 18.
As the trip set in, everything was comfortable, until John decided he needed to go for a piss, 15 minutes later someone wondered where he was, a search ensued, he couldn't be found, to cut a very long story short he was picked up by the police 3 hours later crawling down the central reservation of a local dual carriage way in a very bad state - 3 weeks later he was in a psychiatric unit after several suicide attempts, a year later pretty much to the day he was found dead in a caravan on a travellers site in Cumbria.
Between that group of friends, one of who went on to be a Phd chemist, we all agree that trip changed him, and although you could argue he had underlying issues with his mental health we all feel a burden of that night.
Did it stop me smoking pot and taking E, no it didn't, I was 17 years old, I never took acid again though.
What does this proove? Nothing, obviously, until it happens to you or someone you know.
k it, this in itself is an additcion!In response to the acid is great comment, I'll tell you a story.
Me and some mates from college dropped some acid one night with a guy, let's call him John, who done acid with us before, we knew him well. The plan, as always, was to watch some telly, argue about whether Carl Cox or jimi hendrix should go on the stereo, try to play chess, look at the back of our hands etc... as you do. So we each dropped a strawberry, sat back and waited.
John was a strange kid at the best of times, an over achiever from a poor background, very good at sport, into hardcore dance music and a bit of a hit with the girls, he was a good kid, 18.
As the trip set in, everything was comfortable, until John decided he needed to go for a piss, 15 minutes later someone wondered where he was, a search ensued, he couldn't be found, to cut a very long story short he was picked up by the police 3 hours later crawling down the central reservation of a local dual carriage way in a very bad state - 3 weeks later he was in a psychiatric unit after several suicide attempts, a year later pretty much to the day he was found dead in a caravan on a travellers site in Cumbria.
Between that group of friends, one of who went on to be a Phd chemist, we all agree that trip changed him, and although you could argue he had underlying issues with his mental health we all feel a burden of that night.
Did it stop me smoking pot and taking E, no it didn't, I was 17 years old, I never took acid again though.
What does this proove? Nothing, obviously, until it happens to you or someone you know.
mattnunn said:
So fk it, this in itself is an additcion!
In response to the acid is great comment, I'll tell you a story.
Me and some mates from college dropped some acid one night with a guy, let's call him John, who done acid with us before, we knew him well. The plan, as always, was to watch some telly, argue about whether Carl Cox or jimi hendrix should go on the stereo, try to play chess, look at the back of our hands etc... as you do. So we each dropped a strawberry, sat back and waited.
John was a strange kid at the best of times, an over achiever from a poor background, very good at sport, into hardcore dance music and a bit of a hit with the girls, he was a good kid, 18.
As the trip set in, everything was comfortable, until John decided he needed to go for a piss, 15 minutes later someone wondered where he was, a search ensued, he couldn't be found, to cut a very long story short he was picked up by the police 3 hours later crawling down the central reservation of a local dual carriage way in a very bad state - 3 weeks later he was in a psychiatric unit after several suicide attempts, a year later pretty much to the day he was found dead in a caravan on a travellers site in Cumbria.
Between that group of friends, one of who went on to be a Phd chemist, we all agree that trip changed him, and although you could argue he had underlying issues with his mental health we all feel a burden of that night.
Did it stop me smoking pot and taking E, no it didn't, I was 17 years old, I never took acid again though.
What does this proove? Nothing, obviously, until it happens to you or someone you know.
I think it proves that LSD, as well as most common class As, is easily available to anyone who wants it. You don't even have to go on the streets. Everyone has a mate who can source it or who knows someone who can. Legalising by prescription will not change that.k it, this in itself is an additcion!In response to the acid is great comment, I'll tell you a story.
Me and some mates from college dropped some acid one night with a guy, let's call him John, who done acid with us before, we knew him well. The plan, as always, was to watch some telly, argue about whether Carl Cox or jimi hendrix should go on the stereo, try to play chess, look at the back of our hands etc... as you do. So we each dropped a strawberry, sat back and waited.
John was a strange kid at the best of times, an over achiever from a poor background, very good at sport, into hardcore dance music and a bit of a hit with the girls, he was a good kid, 18.
As the trip set in, everything was comfortable, until John decided he needed to go for a piss, 15 minutes later someone wondered where he was, a search ensued, he couldn't be found, to cut a very long story short he was picked up by the police 3 hours later crawling down the central reservation of a local dual carriage way in a very bad state - 3 weeks later he was in a psychiatric unit after several suicide attempts, a year later pretty much to the day he was found dead in a caravan on a travellers site in Cumbria.
Between that group of friends, one of who went on to be a Phd chemist, we all agree that trip changed him, and although you could argue he had underlying issues with his mental health we all feel a burden of that night.
Did it stop me smoking pot and taking E, no it didn't, I was 17 years old, I never took acid again though.
What does this proove? Nothing, obviously, until it happens to you or someone you know.
I've never taken LSD. I know someone who has. He seemed to enjoy the experience to a limited degree - very pretty - but never took it again whilst I was mates with him. He was rich, his parents owning a four story place that overlooked Blackheath. He stayed with alochol.
It's a sad story and Im sorry to hear about it.
But if these drugs were legalised the quality can be controlled. You would not have glass particles sprayed on to skunk to improve weight and 'crystally' goodness, heroin cut with rat poison etc, coke with god knows what dodgy Chinese designer drug cut into it and finally acid made in a safe laboratory rather than in some ones kitchen with household products.
Further more it would open a new industry in which many of the yoof of today have plenty of experience in, at a time when there unemployment levels are at a record high.
But if these drugs were legalised the quality can be controlled. You would not have glass particles sprayed on to skunk to improve weight and 'crystally' goodness, heroin cut with rat poison etc, coke with god knows what dodgy Chinese designer drug cut into it and finally acid made in a safe laboratory rather than in some ones kitchen with household products.
Further more it would open a new industry in which many of the yoof of today have plenty of experience in, at a time when there unemployment levels are at a record high.
Edited by jogon on Wednesday 25th April 19:07
There was an LSD switching centre in the village next door to mine. I used to walk past the house when walking my dog. Ironically, they had a donkey in their garden and I used to feed it sugar lumps nicked from the City of London police canteen. It was kept under obs over some weeks during Operation Julie. This was one of the most expensive operations ever mounted for drugs manufacture. Whether it would be run nowadays is a moot point. The operation took a year and then there was the case prep, the court, etc.
The guys done well.
The donkey disappeared.
The immediate effect was that prices 'on the street' went up tremendously, the dealers making a killing.
Within a couple of years the price dropped, not quite to where it was before, but still well down from its high, presumably because of increased supply.
It was a tremendous success for the war on drugs. I can't think of any similar operation against drugs since that one.
The guys done well.
The donkey disappeared.
The immediate effect was that prices 'on the street' went up tremendously, the dealers making a killing.
Within a couple of years the price dropped, not quite to where it was before, but still well down from its high, presumably because of increased supply.
It was a tremendous success for the war on drugs. I can't think of any similar operation against drugs since that one.
mattnunn said:
So fk it, this in itself is an additcion!
In response to the acid is great comment, I'll tell you a story.
Me and some mates from college dropped some acid one night with a guy, let's call him John, who done acid with us before, we knew him well. The plan, as always, was to watch some telly, argue about whether Carl Cox or jimi hendrix should go on the stereo, try to play chess, look at the back of our hands etc... as you do. So we each dropped a strawberry, sat back and waited.
John was a strange kid at the best of times, an over achiever from a poor background, very good at sport, into hardcore dance music and a bit of a hit with the girls, he was a good kid, 18.
As the trip set in, everything was comfortable, until John decided he needed to go for a piss, 15 minutes later someone wondered where he was, a search ensued, he couldn't be found, to cut a very long story short he was picked up by the police 3 hours later crawling down the central reservation of a local dual carriage way in a very bad state - 3 weeks later he was in a psychiatric unit after several suicide attempts, a year later pretty much to the day he was found dead in a caravan on a travellers site in Cumbria.
Between that group of friends, one of who went on to be a Phd chemist, we all agree that trip changed him, and although you could argue he had underlying issues with his mental health we all feel a burden of that night.
Did it stop me smoking pot and taking E, no it didn't, I was 17 years old, I never took acid again though.
What does this proove? Nothing, obviously, until it happens to you or someone you know.
well if LSD had been legal that wouldn't have happened to your friend would it?k it, this in itself is an additcion!In response to the acid is great comment, I'll tell you a story.
Me and some mates from college dropped some acid one night with a guy, let's call him John, who done acid with us before, we knew him well. The plan, as always, was to watch some telly, argue about whether Carl Cox or jimi hendrix should go on the stereo, try to play chess, look at the back of our hands etc... as you do. So we each dropped a strawberry, sat back and waited.
John was a strange kid at the best of times, an over achiever from a poor background, very good at sport, into hardcore dance music and a bit of a hit with the girls, he was a good kid, 18.
As the trip set in, everything was comfortable, until John decided he needed to go for a piss, 15 minutes later someone wondered where he was, a search ensued, he couldn't be found, to cut a very long story short he was picked up by the police 3 hours later crawling down the central reservation of a local dual carriage way in a very bad state - 3 weeks later he was in a psychiatric unit after several suicide attempts, a year later pretty much to the day he was found dead in a caravan on a travellers site in Cumbria.
Between that group of friends, one of who went on to be a Phd chemist, we all agree that trip changed him, and although you could argue he had underlying issues with his mental health we all feel a burden of that night.
Did it stop me smoking pot and taking E, no it didn't, I was 17 years old, I never took acid again though.
What does this proove? Nothing, obviously, until it happens to you or someone you know.
The LSD would have been manufactured properly,correct dose put on the tab,more information on how to use it and what the effects were.
so one single acid tab eventually caused him to commit suicide? I find that hard to believe to be honest,purely for the fact that I know loads of people that had safe trips and continue to do so and that its one of the safest substances you can take and besides all that,it wasn't the acid that killed him was it? he committed suicide for reasons only known by him.
When I took my first acid I had an amazing experience, I was completely aware of what I was doing and knew that the things I was seeing weren't real, it was only the acid so I enjoyed it immensely and have some pretty fun but weird memory's of that night
There is many people worldwide who take acid,scientists have even been looking at it to as a possible cure for,
alcoholism.....
http://health.yahoo.net/experts/dayinhealth/can-ls...
http://vitals.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/09/10622...
cluster headaches or 'suicide headaches' as they are known.....
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/06/lsd-...
depression......
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3101327/...
panic attacks......
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/16/could-lsd...
anxiety......
http://www.maps.org/research/psilo-lsd/
So it has it uses and if used sensibly and in moderation is not a bad thing.
I could tell many a story of some crazy antics of people being drunk on alcohol,nearly dying from choking on their own vomit, but would I like to see alcohol banned??
definitely not,people should have the choice of a drug that suits them.
Dixie68 said:
In an ideal world I would agree with those that want every drug legalised, however we have already seen that this isn't an ideal world and we are a nation of idiots. We have tobacco and many people die of that every year. We have alcohol and every weekend we see people kicking the arse out of it and going on binges, all over the country. Fast food joints open and we suddenly become a nation of fatties. Seriously, if cocaine and heroin were available at every corner shop what do you think the outcome would be? Sensible use? I seriously doubt it.
The money from any taxes would be lovely yes but how much of that would then be spent on extra policing, medical services etc?
If we could legalise it all and profit from it and there were no down-sides then great, but you all know that wouldn't happen unfortunately.
Did you read the Richard Branson article?The money from any taxes would be lovely yes but how much of that would then be spent on extra policing, medical services etc?
If we could legalise it all and profit from it and there were no down-sides then great, but you all know that wouldn't happen unfortunately.
Halb said:
It should not be the State's function to tell people what to imbibe or to criminalise them for it.
Well this is a bigger argument then isn't it, I mean it's mirrored in gun ownership debates, abortion debates etc.. etc...Essentially if you believe in a social libertarian ideal of a non intervensionist state etc... then that's fine, I'd be pretty much with you, but this debate is so confused and jumbled (possibly due to half the people being stoned) and tends to surround the idea we can legalise drugs and then tax them as a revenue stream - which to me is doubly abhorent because a) it's endorsing what is a very dnagerous hobby, and b) throwing a tax burden on the poor sods who get addicted to what they assumed was okay because the government didn't stop them doing.
Oh and while I'm on the idea that legalising drugs would remove criminality is by it's nature obvious and logically true, but the same low life thug scum who run the drugs trade now would still be running it if it went legal, boots aren't going to start dealing smack over the counter, and the criminals aren't suddenly become responsible atx paying legit business men.
Lost soul said:
I can not for the life of me imagine why they gave this the time of day
Because he is an intelligent, articulate individual who has personal experience of this issue as an alcoholic/drug addict with a long and sustained recovery from this pernicious and debilitating illness. the time of day Blib said:
Lost soul said:
I can not for the life of me imagine why they gave this the time of day
Because he is an intelligent, articulate individual who has personal experience of this issue as an alcoholic/drug addict with a long and sustained recovery from this pernicious and debilitating illness. the time of day 
Intelligent person gets himself addicted...how does that work?
Edited by mybrainhurts on Wednesday 25th April 23:26
mattnunn said:
MX7 said:
mattnunn said:
You can't be a heroine user for very long, addiction kicks in within days, similarly crack, even quicker. Cocaine, arguable, but it ruins the lifes or users aswell as the addicts.
I've read about heroine addicts who lead very meaningful lives for many years. Heroine addict with a decent supply of money and a supportive group of people around them might just about give the impression of a functioning member of society, but I've never heard any good news stories of heroine addicts rescuing kittens from mine shafts.
Certainly no heroine addicts, or any other kind of addicts whose life wouldn't be improved without their addiction - you can add gambling to that.
What Brand is in essence asking is that the state accepts addiction as a health issue and tries to bend society to the position of sorrow for the addict, i.e that young man who robbed your gran, if you'd just give him some love he'd wouldn't have done it. Which is translated in the mejia and on here as if you'd just given him some smack he'd still be in his bedsit upside down in a corner. Neither of these solutions really satisfy me.
I have met a few and spoken with others who have met a few high functioning heroin addicts - a few GPs, physics professors, academics.
They consume it much the same way a functioning alcohol consumes alcohol - regular small doses as they get on with their day.
mybrainhurts said:
Steady on, you nearly said funny...
Intelligent person gets himself addicted...how does that work?
Come along with me to the World leading drug and alcohol treatment hospital where I volunteer two days a week and maybe you'll discover for yourself.Intelligent person gets himself addicted...how does that work?
Edited by mybrainhurts on Wednesday 25th April 23:26
mattnunn said:
Do we all need to google crocodile drug again?
Look, I'm not suggesting anyone on here is lying, but I do think that a closer inspection of these "recreational" heroine users who are in control of it and could give up anytime they liked, might be a good idea.
Addiction is a crutch, a cover up for something, a security blanket, a ball and chain, it's a hurrendous thing to go through.
Prohibition might not be 100% succesfull, but the more enforcement there is the more effective it is, you won't find many smack heads in Saudi, that is not to say that their culture or society is completely desirable, but it's an example of how enforcment of prohibition works.
There seem to be two camps of people here, a) want the opportunity to excercise free choice, b) accept that prohibition is not enforceable and want to compromise a moral position for the sake cost and ease.
Well b) is enforceable, it's just a matter of cost and a) can move to afghanistan and see how wide spread opiate use enhances social cohesion. (or go back to '69 if you like, see if the rose tinted specs still work)
Sounds like you quite admire totalitarianism.Look, I'm not suggesting anyone on here is lying, but I do think that a closer inspection of these "recreational" heroine users who are in control of it and could give up anytime they liked, might be a good idea.
Addiction is a crutch, a cover up for something, a security blanket, a ball and chain, it's a hurrendous thing to go through.
Prohibition might not be 100% succesfull, but the more enforcement there is the more effective it is, you won't find many smack heads in Saudi, that is not to say that their culture or society is completely desirable, but it's an example of how enforcment of prohibition works.
There seem to be two camps of people here, a) want the opportunity to excercise free choice, b) accept that prohibition is not enforceable and want to compromise a moral position for the sake cost and ease.
Well b) is enforceable, it's just a matter of cost and a) can move to afghanistan and see how wide spread opiate use enhances social cohesion. (or go back to '69 if you like, see if the rose tinted specs still work)
I think the government in the UK i already far too intrusive. A move to Saudi-esque government? No thanks.
Blib said:
Lost soul said:
I can not for the life of me imagine why they gave this the time of day
Because he is an intelligent, articulate individual who has personal experience of this issue as an alcoholic/drug addict with a long and sustained recovery from this pernicious and debilitating illness. the time of day Having watched Brand interviewed by Jonathan Ross and footage of his committee appearance, it is quite clear he is well read and very capable of articulating his views on a wide range of themes. His views on fame and celebrity are particularly interesting.
johnfm said:
I'm going to guess that you are not very old and don't have a wide and varied circle of friends and acquaintances.
I have met a few and spoken with others who have met a few high functioning heroin addicts - a few GPs, physics professors, academics.
They consume it much the same way a functioning alcohol consumes alcohol - regular small doses as they get on with their day.
To be honest I'd rather a GP would abstain from drugs AND alcohol if they're going to be working.I have met a few and spoken with others who have met a few high functioning heroin addicts - a few GPs, physics professors, academics.
They consume it much the same way a functioning alcohol consumes alcohol - regular small doses as they get on with their day.
Halb said:
Dixie68 said:
In an ideal world I would agree with those that want every drug legalised, however we have already seen that this isn't an ideal world and we are a nation of idiots. We have tobacco and many people die of that every year. We have alcohol and every weekend we see people kicking the arse out of it and going on binges, all over the country. Fast food joints open and we suddenly become a nation of fatties. Seriously, if cocaine and heroin were available at every corner shop what do you think the outcome would be? Sensible use? I seriously doubt it.
The money from any taxes would be lovely yes but how much of that would then be spent on extra policing, medical services etc?
If we could legalise it all and profit from it and there were no down-sides then great, but you all know that wouldn't happen unfortunately.
Did you read the Richard Branson article?The money from any taxes would be lovely yes but how much of that would then be spent on extra policing, medical services etc?
If we could legalise it all and profit from it and there were no down-sides then great, but you all know that wouldn't happen unfortunately.
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