Primary School Visit to Mosque
Discussion
Countdown said:
poo at Paul's said:
I do not worry that my daughter would be "brainwashed" or anything else. But should she be subjected to the discrimination that this fait practices on their women folk, even just a little, like wearing a headscarf?
Are you sure about this? There is no requirement for any visitors to a mosque of any age to wear headscarves. Muslims of both sexes are recommended to wear head coverings when praying or reading the Koran but again it's not compulsory.poo at Paul's said:
This is a school that was in the top 3 of the league tables a few years ago, in the country that is, btw!
Sounds like they might know a thing or two about how best to teach the kids.....On the second, it "was". It's still a good school mind you!
ATG said:
It's the same level of completely trivial sexism that is displayed by a restaurant that asks men to wear a jacket and tie. Did you ever feel discriminated against because you as a man were asked to wear a tie?
That's never happened to me, perhaps I chose to dress in a suitable way. I don't think it is the same at all. These are 8 year olds from a C of E school that wear a uniform at school and for all school visits. BTW if I ever was asked to dress differently at a restaurant, and I wasn't dressed like a mess, I would probably chose to take my custom elsewhere.
And of course, the kids, well via their parents permission, have the choice to not go on this trip I understand. Although, of course, the trip to the "forest field" centre afterwards would have to be missed also!
Edited by poo at Paul's on Saturday 16th January 18:07
Alpinestars said:
Ever heard of boys' schools and girls' schools?
Of course. What is your point? The school involved as clearly explained, is a mixed school.
Don't take this the wrong way but you seem wither a bit dim, or trying to just be inflammatory.
If you really think the idea of a choice for a few that it suits of a single sex education system for a maximum of what, 12 years of their lives, to the Islamic religion's denegration of women by the male followers of that religion for their whole lives, then you are either stupid, sexist, or perhaps here's a guess, a male follower of this particular religion. hmmm, I wonder!???
If that idea that it is no different than posh kids in single sex schools makes you sleep better at night, fine, but for the rest of us, your chosen religion is inherently sexist and displays an attitude that should not be encouraged in a modern UK.
poo at Paul's said:
Of course. What is your point?
The school involved as clearly explained, is a mixed school.
Don't take this the wrong way but you seem wither a bit dim, or trying to just be inflammatory.
If you really think the idea of a choice for a few that it suits of a single sex education system for a maximum of what, 12 years of their lives, to the Islamic religion's denegration of women by the male followers of that religion for their whole lives, then you are either stupid, sexist, or perhaps here's a guess, a male follower of this particular religion. hmmm, I wonder!???
If that idea that it is no different than posh kids in single sex schools makes you sleep better at night, fine, but for the rest of us, your chosen religion is inherently sexist and displays an attitude that should not be encouraged in a modern UK.
If we're playing a guessing game, let me have a go. Your post has nothing to do with gathering views, it's yet another Muslim bashing thread?The school involved as clearly explained, is a mixed school.
Don't take this the wrong way but you seem wither a bit dim, or trying to just be inflammatory.
If you really think the idea of a choice for a few that it suits of a single sex education system for a maximum of what, 12 years of their lives, to the Islamic religion's denegration of women by the male followers of that religion for their whole lives, then you are either stupid, sexist, or perhaps here's a guess, a male follower of this particular religion. hmmm, I wonder!???
If that idea that it is no different than posh kids in single sex schools makes you sleep better at night, fine, but for the rest of us, your chosen religion is inherently sexist and displays an attitude that should not be encouraged in a modern UK.
You can pick and choose examples of good and bad in all. Perhaps ask the nations that Sukarnoputri, Sidibe, Jahjaga, Gurib-Fakim etc. lead, whether those societies denigrate (notice the spelling?) them and other women.
Things like mosque visits are a double edged sword as far as I see it. If they "close" their doors, they are treated with suspicion. If they open their doors, they are, well, treated with suspicion.
If your friends are genuinely concerned about asking girls to do something different to boys, surely the easy answer is to address it with the school or mosque, tell them they don't think it's acceptable to treat them differently and if they don't concur, don't go.
poo at Paul's said:
If that idea that it is no different than posh kids in single sex schools makes you sleep better at night, fine, but for the rest of us, your chosen religion is inherently sexist and displays an attitude that should not be encouraged in a modern UK.
If you think that women, of ANY religion or culture, can be easily oppressed then I really don't think you know many women. For example, and this is not intended as a personal attack, do you think your Dad could have easily oppressed your mum? or somehow treated her as a second class citizen?What makes you think muslim women are any different?
I'd like to answer in more detail but Mrs C has just told me my dinner's ready so if I don't look sharpish I'll be in trouble
TwigtheWonderkid said:
ATG said:
It's the same level of completely trivial sexism that is displayed by a restaurant that asks men to wear a jacket and tie. Did you ever feel discriminated against because you as a man were asked to wear a tie?
A restaurant like that would normally require the woman to dress smartly also. So no discrimination at all. If the men had to wear jacket and tie but women could wear ripped jeans and a tee shirt, you'd have a point.When visiting a mosque it isn't permissible for either men or women to dress immodestly. There is no discrimination taking place in that requirement just as the restaurant is not discriminating when it asks all customers to dress smartly. The point is that smart fire mem and smart for women is different. I wouldn't turn up in a dress. For some people "modest" for women means "cover your hair". Big deal. Nuns do it. Amish do it. Sihk blokes do it. Why is it a big deal to ask a school child to do it to show consideration to their host?
Alpinestars said:
Go no further than school uniform. Oh the paradox.
And what, prey tell, is wrong with School uniform? don't tell me, you think kids should be allowed to wear just what they like. Or perhaps what they are told to wear by their religion?
But what a regular UK state school says is oppression.
And as for the claptrap about Muslim women not being oppressed, ffs, how f
king deluded are you? My daughter was going to go on a school trip recently to learn more about the Victorians. Thankfully I was able to intercept the consent form before my wife signed it. She thought it would be an enriching experience but amongst other atrocities the Victorians imprisoned gays and didn't allow women to vote and I'm petrified to my very core that my daughter will be become radicalised into this way of thinking.
How dare the government try to broaden my daughter's knowledge! If anyone is going to brainwash her it'll be me, OK?
How dare the government try to broaden my daughter's knowledge! If anyone is going to brainwash her it'll be me, OK?
Alpinestars said:
Things like mosque visits are a double edged sword as far as I see it. If they "close" their doors, they are treated with suspicion. If they open their doors, they are, well, treated with suspicion.
If your friends are genuinely concerned about asking girls to do something different to boys, surely the easy answer is to address it with the school or mosque, tell them they don't think it's acceptable to treat them differently and if they don't concur, don't go.
Which I think is exactly what the OP has said. You're the fool that brought up same sex schools, trying to justify the sexist policy, whether it be from the school or the Mosque. If your friends are genuinely concerned about asking girls to do something different to boys, surely the easy answer is to address it with the school or mosque, tell them they don't think it's acceptable to treat them differently and if they don't concur, don't go.
And as for the guy going on about it being the same as men having to wear ties in restaurants, FFS. What a crock! You sound like you are living in the 1970's or something??
Ridley said:
btw there seems to be vast amounts of consternation in this thread about religion in general but did you all miss the rather large point that the OP chooses to send his child to a CofE school? Why isn't your angst directed also at him?
I am pretty sure the OP says the school in question is a C of E school, but his daughter actually goes to another one. He also says most kids there are agnostic and they also have some Muslim kids who go there. Which would suggest it is relatively relaxed and progressive would it not? But don't let that stop your b
ks spouting about how he is racist and thinks his daughter will be "brainwashed" by the Mosque. Just keep making it all up and eventually you will believe it!! Perhaps go back and have an actual read of the thread?
Ridley said:
btw there seems to be vast amounts of consternation in this thread about religion in general but did you all miss the rather large point that the OP chooses to send his child to a CofE school? Why isn't your angst directed also at him?
To be honest and I accept I may have the wrong end of the stick but it was the sexist letter asking the girls to cover up not the fact it was about religion.Would I be bothered if my girl went? no, but damn straight I would if someone said she must cover herself first.
Ridley said:
btw there seems to be vast amounts of consternation in this thread about religion in general but did you all miss the rather large point that the OP chooses to send his child to a CofE school? Why isn't your angst directed also at him?
Sorry mate, it would appear to be you that is missing the rather large point, my daughter goes to a non denomination state primary school, but thanks for your input. And yes, if it were my daughter, my issue would be merely the fact she would be treated differently to her male class colleagues. And per several more knowledgeable posters on here than I, it would appear to be an unnecessary request.
There's been some developments today on the issue with some parents having taken it up with the school head it seems. If anyone is interested I will try to give an update, it certainly has been a talking point locally and it would seem on here.
Thanks for everyone's opinions and information, it has been interesting to hear.
Edited by poo at Paul's on Saturday 16th January 23:06
Edited by poo at Paul's on Saturday 16th January 23:08
s3fella said:
And what, prey tell, is wrong with School uniform?
don't tell me, you think kids should be allowed to wear just what they like. Or perhaps what they are told to wear by their religion?
But what a regular UK state school says is oppression.
And as for the claptrap about Muslim women not being oppressed, ffs, how fking deluded are you?
In case you hadn't noticed many schools impose a different dress code for girls and boys. That's part of what's being discussed here. don't tell me, you think kids should be allowed to wear just what they like. Or perhaps what they are told to wear by their religion?
But what a regular UK state school says is oppression.
And as for the claptrap about Muslim women not being oppressed, ffs, how f
king deluded are you? Some people, Muslims and non Muslims, oppress women. Not all Muslims opress women. Maybe too subtle for a man who shows his misogyny by stating migrants in Germany wouldn't touch Merkel up because she's an "ugly
".And it's pray, not prey - Freudian slip?
s3fella said:
Which I think is exactly what the OP has said. You're the fool that brought up same sex schools, trying to justify the sexist policy, whether it be from the school or the Mosque.
And as for the guy going on about it being the same as men having to wear ties in restaurants, FFS. What a crock! You sound like you are living in the 1970's or something??
Where did I justify the sexist policy? I pointed out the fact that girls and boys face a number of facts that show them they are different to each other. So to worry about a religious establishment making a distinction is disingenuous. And as for the guy going on about it being the same as men having to wear ties in restaurants, FFS. What a crock! You sound like you are living in the 1970's or something??
And swearing doesn't validate any of your points you angry little man.
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