Brexit Poll 1/2/16

[FiF]

Most years the Uni Politics Dept runs a module on the EU. Students are a typical mix of UK and foreign students, both EU and non EU.

Every year the at the start of the first lecture the students are asked to vote on the keypad on their desks how they are disposed towards the EU. Typical stuff, on a scale of 1 to 5 with 1 being strongly for the EU and 5 being strongly against, you get the picture.

At the start the results are generally 1s and 2s with a small smattering of 3. At the end having studied how the EU actually works it's without fail 5s and 4s.

Even students aren't as stupid as many of our politicians.

Obviously this poll have voted for leave. But then I voted no in 75.

[Scuffers]

plasticpig said:

There are other economists who disagree with him and models which show a small but permanent drop in GDP.

Read the first page...

They are all europhiles...

[turbobloke]

SPS said:

They are forward thinking politicians - more future proof pigs snouts in the EU trough!

Very timely after the fine words that CMD has just uttered via the local commercial radio news bulletin, that with his 'concessions' ho ho ho if we vote In we'd still be sitting around the table. By 'we' he clearly meant politicians, and by table he meant trough, but it's an understandable slip of the snout.

[plasticpig]

Scuffers said:

Read the first page...

They are all europhiles...

Minford is a euro skeptic. If your happy to stick to one side of the argument and not have an open mind that's fine. I prefer to weigh up both sides of the argument before making a decision. As I said earlier in the thread I won't make a final decision until I see what the governments exit plan is.

[Einion Yrth]

plasticpig said:

I won't make a final decision until I see what the governments exit plan is.

They won't have one, until and unless they are forced to by an "out" result.

[otolith]

plasticpig said:

Minford is a euro skeptic. If your happy to stick to one side of the argument and not have an open mind that's fine. I prefer to weigh up both sides of the argument before making a decision. As I said earlier in the thread I won't make a final decision until I see what the governments exit plan is.

Rather than comparing the biases of the economists, it would be more enlightening to compare the assumptions their models make.

[Scuffers]

plasticpig said:

Scuffers said:

Read the first page...

They are all europhiles...

Minford is a euro skeptic. If your happy to stick to one side of the argument and not have an open mind that's fine. I prefer to weigh up both sides of the argument before making a decision. As I said earlier in the thread I won't make a final decision until I see what the governments exit plan is.

maybe so, but he's not paid to be like all the others on that 'report'.

hell, JP Morgan FFS! you know, the ones that have just donated a "substantial six-figure sum" to the in campaign.

[plasticpig]

Scuffers said:

maybe so, but he's not paid to be like all the others on that 'report'.

hell, JP Morgan FFS! you know, the ones that have just donated a "substantial six-figure sum" to the in campaign.

I am sure both sides of the campaign will receive corporate funding from those who believe that it's in their best interests to be in or out. Minfords book is published through the Institute of Economic Affairs which is partially funded by tobacco companies (BAT, Phillip Morris). The IEA refuses to lists it's corporate donors whilst the Center For European Reform publicly lists them on it's website.

[Mr GrimNasty]

It's so funny watching DC prancing around pretending he has renegotiated our role, thankfully he's so bad at this and his dishonesty so manifest, he is converting thousands to an out vote every time he opens his mouth.

[dandarez]

CMD 'Sam, I'm just going to look at that car you liked.'

SamCam 'Ok Dave. It's advertised at £8,500. See if you can do a better deal for me.'

CMD 'Don't worry my love, I'm the PM you know. Influence and all that, lol.'

...later

SamCam. 'How did you get on?

CMD 'Super deal. I really hammered it home! In fact, the car is outside now for you.'

SamCam 'Oh you're sooo good at this. Did you get a better deal?'

CMD 'Ooh yes! £12,999.'

SamCam 'Uhh, that's sounds a lot more expensive Dave?'

CMD 'No my love, it's a real deal. It included delivery to the door!'

[KrissKross]

dandarez said:

CMD 'Sam, I'm just going to look at that car you liked.'

SamCam 'Ok Dave. It's advertised at £8,500. See if you can do a better deal for me.'

CMD 'Don't worry my love, I'm the PM you know. Influence and all that, lol.'

...later

SamCam. 'How did you get on?

CMD 'Super deal. I really hammered it home! In fact, the car is outside now for you.'

SamCam 'Oh you're sooo good at this. Did you get a better deal?'

CMD 'Ooh yes! £12,999.'

SamCam 'Uhh, that's sounds a lot more expensive Dave?'

CMD 'No my love, it's a real deal. It included delivery to the door!'

very good, or another scenario:

CMD - I got a better deal "for you" its now £8,000 (even though its really only worth £5000).

And at the same time he pockets £3,000 a week for doing fk all for the rest of his life.

[Halb]

That Minford video was interesting.

[handpaper]

s1962a said:

It also makes buying things in the UK more expensive, as well as holidays. Till things stabilise anyway.

If you think there'll be 'instability' in the UK immediately after Brexit, you might want to consider the effects on the rest of the club of losing its second biggest contributor.
The EU is already printing its way out of insolvency (illegally, natch), and has a credit rating a point below the UK's.

[Scuffers]

if we exit the EU tomorrow do you honestly think suddenly overnight everything is going to change?

the way the Euro files are going on anybody you think you will be the end of the world, or the start of World War II if we exit.

[don4l]

plasticpig said:

Scuffers said:

he sure as hell needed it for that lot!

everybody should be made to watch that, for two reasons:

1) because of what he is saying about trade
2) to show just how f**king thick our MP's actually are.

There are other economists who disagree with him and models which show a small but permanent drop in GDP.

"Ask five economists and you'll get five different answers - six if one went to Harvard."
Edgar Fiedler

[don4l]

plasticpig said:

Minford is a euro skeptic. If your happy to stick to one side of the argument and not have an open mind that's fine. I prefer to weigh up both sides of the argument before making a decision. As I said earlier in the thread I won't make a final decision until I see what the governments exit plan is.

So, the renegotiation is of no consequence to you?

Are you really happy to see "ever closer union" now that we can see that it means the total surrender of our sovereignty?

Are you happy to see an endless stream of immigrants placing enormous strains on our education system, the NHS, the roads, water supply and the countryside?

Finally, would you prefer to be subservient too the only declining economic bloc(the EU) in the world, or would you like to be part of the expanding economy?

You might not give a damn about your own kids' future, but please give a thought for my kids.

Vote Leave.

[anonymous-user]

plasticpig said:

Scuffers said:

Read the first page...

They are all europhiles...

Minford is a euro skeptic. If your happy to stick to one side of the argument and not have an open mind that's fine. I prefer to weigh up both sides of the argument before making a decision. As I said earlier in the thread I won't make a final decision until I see what the governments exit plan is.

Even if what we are being fed was worth having, which it isn't, one would have to be naive in the extreme to think it would be delivered after we voted to stay in. I guess some people are that gullible.

[davepoth]

plasticpig said:

There are other economists who disagree with him and models which show a small but permanent drop in GDP.

Which would be expected if the population was to reduce - Each% of GDP is worth around 320,000 working people, if you slice it that way. If working Europeans decided they want to go home (several hundreds of thousands do every year) but weren't replaced by new migrants, we would see a GDP loss of that sort within a year or two. Even if we needed some replacement migrants it would not be in the same sort of numbers as we currently see.

That would mean a loss of economic output both in terms of the jobs they do and in terms of the services that provided for them, but nobody left in the UK would feel much difference in their pocket.

[anonymous-user]

Rather strange that Cameron is negotiating minute & largely irrelevant fine detail.
While the Euro leaders are doing naff all about the crisis caused by Merkel. The biggest crisis since another German 70 odd years ago.
That is the biggest influence on the likely outcome (the ineptitude of the European 'leaders')

[anonymous-user]

All this stuff about benefits. Governments over the last 20 odd years should have practised due diligence & made benefits a contributory scheme. Pay in to get out. Most 5 year olds could have predicted the outcome.