This a*se should be arrested
Discussion
El stovey said:
But he couldn’t look after himself. If the bloke hadn’t been such an idiot the RNLI wouldn’t have had to go out to help him.
He selfishly and stupidly put others lives in danger because of his hobby.
What do you propose we do to the dangerous and sociopathic scoundrel? Smash up his board so he can't surf again? Fine him a whole load of money? Put him in prison? A public flogging perhaps?He selfishly and stupidly put others lives in danger because of his hobby.
Go on then, what do you propose is your solution?
I'm a (lapsed) surfer of some 30yrs, but not been in the water for a while due to other commitments. I've also got a twin brother who is a current RNLI crewman, so see/hear of some inside info.
I personally wouldn't have gone out in those conditions because I'm not the world's best swimmer and it was against general advice. Further, the surf conditions were pretty abysmal, a horrible blown out mess. It's not as if he stood the chance of riding a perfect 30ft tube or something, in Hastings. It does all seem a bit 'LOOK AT ME' but I don't know the fella involved.
The key issue for me is that he lost his board, and that is when members of the public (rightly) called for help. Posters above talk about this surfer's 'skill set' perhaps being different, I would argue that once his leash has gone and he has lost his board then it is a whole new dynamic. That he managed to wash up on a beach five miles away is far more to do with luck than judgement, and probably attributable to the bouyancy in his wetsuit.
The 'capsize' of the boat looks worse as an observer than it is for the crew. These boats are sealed and self-righting, if anything that proved an excellent live training exercise to give them confidence in their vessel. You need that confidence to set to sea in it - should they have to go out in bigger seas, in the dark, and it's not on YouTube, they can just be that little bit more confident.
I personally wouldn't have gone out in those conditions because I'm not the world's best swimmer and it was against general advice. Further, the surf conditions were pretty abysmal, a horrible blown out mess. It's not as if he stood the chance of riding a perfect 30ft tube or something, in Hastings. It does all seem a bit 'LOOK AT ME' but I don't know the fella involved.
The key issue for me is that he lost his board, and that is when members of the public (rightly) called for help. Posters above talk about this surfer's 'skill set' perhaps being different, I would argue that once his leash has gone and he has lost his board then it is a whole new dynamic. That he managed to wash up on a beach five miles away is far more to do with luck than judgement, and probably attributable to the bouyancy in his wetsuit.
The 'capsize' of the boat looks worse as an observer than it is for the crew. These boats are sealed and self-righting, if anything that proved an excellent live training exercise to give them confidence in their vessel. You need that confidence to set to sea in it - should they have to go out in bigger seas, in the dark, and it's not on YouTube, they can just be that little bit more confident.
El stovey said:
The point is when you are doing them during a known and forecasted storm and you’re putting other’s lives in danger.
Do you do these activities during a storm and dangerous weather conditions?
If you kayak surf or sail, you’re not an idiot if you deliberately do it during a forecasted storm then you are.
Not if your level of skill and experience is such that it is within your capabilities you are not.Do you do these activities during a storm and dangerous weather conditions?
If you kayak surf or sail, you’re not an idiot if you deliberately do it during a forecasted storm then you are.
Lets hear it then - the first person to cross the Atlantic by plane, Charles Lindbergh I think he was called. Hero or idiot in your book?
Andy20vt said:
Funny you should say you know some RNLI folk. The thing is, is that I actually do, mountain rescue too! They are a selfless and stoic bunch. They understand that occasionally people make errors of judgement, push themselves too far, or find themselves into situations outside of their control. They do not berate the people they rescue, nor do they tend to cast judgement on them for getting into difficulty. Unlike the rabid keyboard warriors on here baying for blood from their armchairs after reading a sensationalist news article. But as usual I suspect that it's the empty vessels that make the most noise.
That’s rubbish, my colleague from work was involved in this rescue, he’s the one who told me about it and said “I had to go and help some idiot who was surfing in the storm yesterday”El stovey said:
That’s rubbish, my colleague from work was involved in this rescue, he’s the one who told me about it and said “I had to go and help some idiot who was surfing in the storm yesterday”
He is entitled to his opinion but that contrasts greatly with the mentality of all the people I know who work in MR and the RNLI. Plus he didn't have to go out if he didn't want to - the RNLI is a volunteer service, not a compulsory occupation.PurpleTurtle said:
I'm a (lapsed) surfer of some 30yrs, but not been in the water for a while due to other commitments. I've also got a twin brother who is a current RNLI crewman, so see/hear of some inside info.
I personally wouldn't have gone out in those conditions because I'm not the world's best swimmer and it was against general advice. Further, the surf conditions were pretty abysmal, a horrible blown out mess. It's not as if he stood the chance of riding a perfect 30ft tube or something, in Hastings.
The key issue for me is that he lost his board, and that is when members of the public (rightly) called for help. Posters above talk about this surfer's 'skill set' perhaps being different, I would argue that once his leash has gone and he has lost his board then it is a whole new dynamic. That he managed to wash up on a beach five miles away is far more to do with luck than judgement, and probably attributable to the bouyancy in his wetsuit.
The 'capsize' of the boat looks worse as an observer than it is for the crew. These boats are sealed and self-righting, if anything that proved an excellent live training exercise to give them confidence in their vessel. You need that confidence to set to sea in it - should they have to go out in bigger seas, in the dark, and it's not on YouTube, they can just be that little bit more confident.
It looked a horribly confused sea. I am not sure what he expected to be riding, but with that level of windspeed over or against tide, a lumping surf and some special hydrodynamics, it could never have promised anything enjoyable. I personally wouldn't have gone out in those conditions because I'm not the world's best swimmer and it was against general advice. Further, the surf conditions were pretty abysmal, a horrible blown out mess. It's not as if he stood the chance of riding a perfect 30ft tube or something, in Hastings.
The key issue for me is that he lost his board, and that is when members of the public (rightly) called for help. Posters above talk about this surfer's 'skill set' perhaps being different, I would argue that once his leash has gone and he has lost his board then it is a whole new dynamic. That he managed to wash up on a beach five miles away is far more to do with luck than judgement, and probably attributable to the bouyancy in his wetsuit.
The 'capsize' of the boat looks worse as an observer than it is for the crew. These boats are sealed and self-righting, if anything that proved an excellent live training exercise to give them confidence in their vessel. You need that confidence to set to sea in it - should they have to go out in bigger seas, in the dark, and it's not on YouTube, they can just be that little bit more confident.
For a helm of that experience to end up beam on to the beach and swell it must have been pretty f
king sporting out there. Experience is about looking at the conditions, and either going for it, and so far as you reasonably can, controlling your risk, or f
k it and go the pub. There's a duty of care to others be they RNLI, MRT, CRO or whatever. By all means test yourself, but be prepared to stand back and sack it if the conditions really are that s
t and or the objective dangers are estimated to be just too high. Others will turn out to rescue you, but probably best they didn't have to. Andy20vt said:
El stovey said:
That’s rubbish, my colleague from work was involved in this rescue, he’s the one who told me about it and said “I had to go and help some idiot who was surfing in the storm yesterday”
He is entitled to his opinion but that contrasts greatly with the mentality of all the people I know who work in MR and the RNLI. Plus he didn't have to go out if he didn't want to - the RNLI is a volunteer service, not a compulsory occupation.None of my Lifeboat crew friends actually suggest such a thing (other than a wry comment over a pint after a long tow of a muppet with no prep/clue - the equivalent of the "mountain climber in flip flops").
In fact, I've just spotted a post on Facebook from one of the ILB crew, who was out windsurfing yesterday...
Andy20vt said:
El stovey said:
But he couldn’t look after himself. If the bloke hadn’t been such an idiot the RNLI wouldn’t have had to go out to help him.
He selfishly and stupidly put others lives in danger because of his hobby.
What do you propose we do to the dangerous and sociopathic scoundrel? Smash up his board so he can't surf again? Fine him a whole load of money? Put him in prison? A public flogging perhaps?He selfishly and stupidly put others lives in danger because of his hobby.
Go on then, what do you propose is your solution?
Hopefully he’ll learn his lesson and not be such a selfish idiot in the future.
Andy20vt said:
They do not berate the people they rescue, nor do they tend to cast judgement on them for getting into difficulty.
They certainly can. The reason you often won't hear it, however, is because once you have seen someone do something rather stupid or get into trouble for the 100th time, you are more concerned with what to have for dinner.More importantly, a friend of mine who was with the RNLI and also worked for other emergency services had to keep almost all of his thoughts and comments either to himself, or within a very, very small circle of friends. They all knew this. You could have worked alongside him and still not known how he felt were you not part of that circle.
It's no different to a police officer thinking it's a good thing when a local drug dealer is shot dead. They will never admit it, you'll often never hear about it (unless you are within the circle), but trust me, lots of them will be thinking it and saying it to the trusted few. Comments made can be career-altering.
If you are human and witness humans doing silly things, you will be thinking "silly human". There's no way to turn that off.
I think a lot of people commenting here don't really have a handle on the specifics of the situation. I am not saying that I do, but lets look at it and establish what we know from the facts.
1) From the videos of him swimming about, this man is well dressed and equipped for the situation wearing a thick winter wetsuit with a hood. He also has something round his waist which could be a flotation device. This would suggest planning and experience.
2) At no point does he look to be in trouble or panicking.
3) He self rescued - also suggests that he had a handle on the situation even if it looked dire to Joe Bloggs.
4) A member of the public called the RNLI. This is relevant because at no point in any of the videos or description was he seen waving his arms for help. If anything this was a member of the public who likely had no idea about the surfers ability, but based his/her assumption that the surfer was in trouble on their own capability and experience of treacherous water.
5) The RNLI are using craft which self right and are more than capable in this type of weather. Their crews are highly trained. I crewed a yacht in the 2007 fastnet race. Over three quarters of the fleet (including us) retired due to severe weather. Whilst at the helm during the transit into Plymouth, in the dark, with huge waves and people being sick everywhere, all I heard the whole night was "PANPAN MAYDAY". The RNLI were lapping it up. At dawn we reached the harbour at the same time as an RNLI boat was coming in towing a dismasted boat. They literally left it by the dock, checked everyone was ok, refuelled, and went back out into the storm for the next one.
I am coming at this from the view point of being an experienced sailor, and white water kayaker. I have run a huge number of rivers which have been in spate, or very steep, or that have had huge volume, or dangerous features in them like siphons or big holes. Most people would look at even a class 1/2 undammed river and think it would be stupid to swim in it because "its moving water and its dangerous, there could be weeds that wrap round your legs and drown you". Yes it is moving, and yes, it can be dangerous, yes there is an element of risk.
However, and from experience I can say this. The average person has absolutely NO idea what we, or our equipment are capable of. They normally have NO experience of what moving water is, how it performs, or at what point it really becomes lethal if you know what you are doing and have a good handle on the risk level. The average person also has no experience of our ability to make a decision on what is safe, based on our knowledge of the likely risks, and our capability/experience in the boat. It all adds up to the point that you do things which most people look at and think "that's dangerous, you're stupid". They only think this because they don't know any better.
With this post I am by no means saying that it was an entirely sensible decision to go surfing on that day. But, this man likely looked at the conditions, and then backed himself that he could get himself out of trouble even if the st hit the fan. Then he made the decision to go out and have some fun. st then did hit the fan, but he used his obvious experience, fitness, and skill to self rescue, and he did get out alive without needing help. The fact the RNLI came out to rescue him is irrelevant to his individual situation.
He will definitely have analysed the situation afterwards and perhaps thought it was a bit extreme, but likely no more extreme than he has done before, just this time he lost his board. Please remember that he still didn't ask for help at any point.
As the public, we are all grateful that the police, fire services, ambulance, air ambulance services exist. It's just like an insurance. You pay for it, hope you never have to use it, but are happy that you did once something happens.
As extreme sportsmen, we are also grateful for emergency services, helicopters, boats, mountain rescue, whatever/whoever comes to get us. Luckily, through a careful approach, balancing risk and experience when occasionally we have needed to push the boundaries to complete something, I and my group of friends have never needed to use these services. We aim at all costs not to need them but it is nice to know that as a last resort they're there. We have had our fair share of broken noses, shoulder dislocations, etc.
We would have to be absolutely and completely stuck to ask for help. In the end it is no different to calling for an ambulance or a fire engine. These people exist and are trained because accidents happen, and hopefully, whether its a heart attack or being stuck at the top of the north face of the Eiger, they can come and save the day.
It's dramatic. That's the very nature of rescue. It isn't something you normally see. Life can be in danger. However, the ONLY reason this is a story is that the RNLI was called by a member of the public and a dramatic video was taken and published.
1) From the videos of him swimming about, this man is well dressed and equipped for the situation wearing a thick winter wetsuit with a hood. He also has something round his waist which could be a flotation device. This would suggest planning and experience.
2) At no point does he look to be in trouble or panicking.
3) He self rescued - also suggests that he had a handle on the situation even if it looked dire to Joe Bloggs.
4) A member of the public called the RNLI. This is relevant because at no point in any of the videos or description was he seen waving his arms for help. If anything this was a member of the public who likely had no idea about the surfers ability, but based his/her assumption that the surfer was in trouble on their own capability and experience of treacherous water.
5) The RNLI are using craft which self right and are more than capable in this type of weather. Their crews are highly trained. I crewed a yacht in the 2007 fastnet race. Over three quarters of the fleet (including us) retired due to severe weather. Whilst at the helm during the transit into Plymouth, in the dark, with huge waves and people being sick everywhere, all I heard the whole night was "PANPAN MAYDAY". The RNLI were lapping it up. At dawn we reached the harbour at the same time as an RNLI boat was coming in towing a dismasted boat. They literally left it by the dock, checked everyone was ok, refuelled, and went back out into the storm for the next one.
I am coming at this from the view point of being an experienced sailor, and white water kayaker. I have run a huge number of rivers which have been in spate, or very steep, or that have had huge volume, or dangerous features in them like siphons or big holes. Most people would look at even a class 1/2 undammed river and think it would be stupid to swim in it because "its moving water and its dangerous, there could be weeds that wrap round your legs and drown you". Yes it is moving, and yes, it can be dangerous, yes there is an element of risk.
However, and from experience I can say this. The average person has absolutely NO idea what we, or our equipment are capable of. They normally have NO experience of what moving water is, how it performs, or at what point it really becomes lethal if you know what you are doing and have a good handle on the risk level. The average person also has no experience of our ability to make a decision on what is safe, based on our knowledge of the likely risks, and our capability/experience in the boat. It all adds up to the point that you do things which most people look at and think "that's dangerous, you're stupid". They only think this because they don't know any better.
With this post I am by no means saying that it was an entirely sensible decision to go surfing on that day. But, this man likely looked at the conditions, and then backed himself that he could get himself out of trouble even if the s
t hit the fan. Then he made the decision to go out and have some fun. st then did hit the fan, but he used his obvious experience, fitness, and skill to self rescue, and he did get out alive without needing help. The fact the RNLI came out to rescue him is irrelevant to his individual situation.He will definitely have analysed the situation afterwards and perhaps thought it was a bit extreme, but likely no more extreme than he has done before, just this time he lost his board. Please remember that he still didn't ask for help at any point.
As the public, we are all grateful that the police, fire services, ambulance, air ambulance services exist. It's just like an insurance. You pay for it, hope you never have to use it, but are happy that you did once something happens.
As extreme sportsmen, we are also grateful for emergency services, helicopters, boats, mountain rescue, whatever/whoever comes to get us. Luckily, through a careful approach, balancing risk and experience when occasionally we have needed to push the boundaries to complete something, I and my group of friends have never needed to use these services. We aim at all costs not to need them but it is nice to know that as a last resort they're there. We have had our fair share of broken noses, shoulder dislocations, etc.
We would have to be absolutely and completely stuck to ask for help. In the end it is no different to calling for an ambulance or a fire engine. These people exist and are trained because accidents happen, and hopefully, whether its a heart attack or being stuck at the top of the north face of the Eiger, they can come and save the day.
It's dramatic. That's the very nature of rescue. It isn't something you normally see. Life can be in danger. However, the ONLY reason this is a story is that the RNLI was called by a member of the public and a dramatic video was taken and published.
Gameface said:
Andy20vt said:
Lets hear it then - the first person to cross the Atlantic by plane, Charles Lindbergh I think he was called. Hero or idiot in your book?
So this surfer is a pioneer now?El stovey said:
Andy20vt said:
Because just because you can't comprehend someone being able to look after themselves in these conditions it doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who are able to cope perfectly well. Okay on this occasion things didn't go to plan for him and I'm sure he learned a lot from it but regardless no one put the RNLI in danger. They took that risk upon themselves.
But he couldn’t look after himself. If the bloke hadn’t been such an idiot the RNLI wouldn’t have had to go out to help him. He selfishly and stupidly put others lives in danger because of his hobby.
The whole point of the RNLI is to rescue people who end up in trouble, that's what they're there for. Nobody ever went out into the sea thinking "the RNLI will rescue me if it goes wrong" in their risk assessment however.
Edited by BMWBen on Monday 10th February 10:19
steve2 said:
He should be fined in someway to cover a bit of the costs
This argument has been done to death over the years.Ask any of the mountain rescue teams and they will argue strongly against any sort of fine, ‘financial contribution’, or punishment for people calling for help, for obvious reasons.
Andy20vt said:
Greendubber said:
Andy20vt said:
eharding said:
Andy20vt said:
no one put the RNLI in danger. They took that risk upon themselves.
Jesus wept. Can you not understand that if your idiot mate had not decided to go out in these conditions today, then nobody else would have willingly airborne or on the water try any find him?
Self-entitled, deluded 2@ doesn't even start to cover this one.
I think you should just stop digging. I know a few RNLI and whilst their social media messages are all fairly positive, they'd have wanted to have give this bloke an absolute round of f
ks. That said Mountain Rescue, the RNLI etc, are not obliged to go out and save people. There have been many occasions where crews have stood down should conditions prove to be beyond their skill and safe operational capability. This incident wasn't one of them.
Funny you should say you know some RNLI folk. The thing is, is that I actually do, mountain rescue too! They are a selfless and stoic bunch. They understand that occasionally people make errors of judgement, push themselves too far, or find themselves into situations outside of their control. They do not berate the people they rescue, nor do they tend to cast judgement on them for getting into difficulty. Unlike the rabid keyboard warriors on here baying for blood from their armchairs after reading a sensationalist news article. But as usual I suspect that it's the empty vessels that make the most noise.
My fathers good mates with the Coxswain of their local boat, another is the engineer, he also knows a few of the crew. I've spoken at length about what they do, does that count as 'actually knowing' them too? They've always had plenty to say about silly people getting into equally silly situations, right up there from parents letting their kids blow away on an inflatable swans to people going out in entirely unsuitable conditions.
This is the boat, Shannon class like the one in the report, it's a fabulous bit of kit, they beach it and then trailer it back to the life house. Awesome bit of engineering. This was when I was visiting my folks and they were doing their sea trials so popped down to see it in action.
BMWBen said:
... And point of order he *did* look after himself, the RNLI didn't rescue him....
How did he do that unconscious? In heavy seas, some distance from where he entered the water?Had he surfed an amazing series of swells and filled Instabollux with many scenes of derring-do then fair play, man's a hero and clearly a cut above.
On a point of order, is the Coastguard chopper the only non-volunteer in this?
Greendubber said:
This is the boat, Shannon class like the one in the report, it's a fabulous bit of kit, they beach it and then trailer it back to the life house. Awesome bit of engineering. This was when I was visiting my folks and they were doing their sea trials so popped down to see it in action.
Shannon is an incredible bit of kit - and also has some benefits in terms of 'work/life' for crews too. RNLI have committed to replacing all inshore boats with them really quickly - they've built a new manufacturing facility in Poole specifically for them.
£5 for an hour's tour, on either Weds afternoons or Sat mornings.
The Don of Croy said:
How did he do that unconscious? In heavy seas, some distance from where he entered the water?
Had he surfed an amazing series of swells and filled Instabollux with many scenes of derring-do then fair play, man's a hero and clearly a cut above.
Eh? Didn’t he swim/drift down the coast and get out unaided, or did I misread that?Had he surfed an amazing series of swells and filled Instabollux with many scenes of derring-do then fair play, man's a hero and clearly a cut above.
Sway said:
Greendubber said:
This is the boat, Shannon class like the one in the report, it's a fabulous bit of kit, they beach it and then trailer it back to the life house. Awesome bit of engineering. This was when I was visiting my folks and they were doing their sea trials so popped down to see it in action.
Shannon is an incredible bit of kit - and also has some benefits in terms of 'work/life' for crews too. RNLI have committed to replacing all inshore boats with them really quickly - they've built a new manufacturing facility in Poole specifically for them.
£5 for an hour's tour, on either Weds afternoons or Sat mornings.
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