Lockdown Imminent (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Ructions said:
My sister in law is in a senior management position in for a large pharmaceutical company in the north west of England. She is in charge of procurement of PPE and various medicines which in turn get distributed to NHS hospitals throughout the UK and a number of hospitals here in Ireland. She would probably have regular contacts with heads of departments of various government agencies and taking what she says at face value she reckons we are in for a very long, tough winter. They are preparing for three times as many deaths during the second wave as we had in the first. They also supply the body bags.
I will believe that when I see it and thus far we don't have any excess deaths for the time of year (up to the latest data released). Very much a case of dying with Covid rather than of.Ructions said:
Look I have no dog in this fight, but governments don’t just decide to close entire countries down on a whim. I would rather be safe than sorry. I have elderly in laws who I care for dearly and I would like to see them again, we haven’t seen them since New Year, they live in the UK.
Is it too much to ask that we look out for each other, actually give a f
k about our neighbours and communities?
No they close them down out of cowardice in the face of media hysteria and social media frenzy. If you care about your neighbours and communities don't destroy their livelihoods and take away their freedoms for a virus only a few times more dangerous as seasonal flu at most and one that is almost no threat to anyone under the age of fifty. Is it too much to ask that we look out for each other, actually give a f
k about our neighbours and communities? Anonymous-poster said:
Could someone explain to me WHY the government is wanting to destroy the economy with these measures IF they are not needed?
I think it's more likely fear of causing deaths on a large scale on one side and admitting the strategy has been wrong on the other.Incompetence rather than malice.
Anonymous-poster said:
Could someone explain to me WHY the government is wanting to destroy the economy with these measures IF they are not needed?
Cowardice on the parts of governments and lack of scientific knowledge, incompetence and ideological motivations on the part of the scientific advisors, hysteria and inability to question, or investigate, basic facts on behalf of the media.It is a perfect storm created by all the trends in our society since we last faced a pandemic such as this one (in 1969/70)
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Anonymous-poster said:
Could someone explain to me WHY the government is wanting to destroy the economy with these measures IF they are not needed?
I think it's more likely fear of causing deaths on a large scale on one side and admitting the strategy has been wrong on the other.Incompetence rather than malice.
Brave Fart said:
This sort of smug post makes me rather annoyed. It shows a lack of empathy; the sort of "well, my life is OK so everyone else's must be" attitude that, frankly, is the mark of a sociopath.
Apologies if it’s upset you but I don’t see what’s smug about the post at all.I’m simply pointing out the facts, not drawing any conclusions from them.
What’s smug or “I’m alright Jack” about that?
JagLover said:
Robertj21a said:
So, are we suggesting that all those medical experts, SAGE etc are wrong to highlight how serious the issues are ?
They are wrong to make misleading or false claims. Just as well that we have you to give us the real facts........
Robertj21a said:
JagLover said:
Robertj21a said:
So, are we suggesting that all those medical experts, SAGE etc are wrong to highlight how serious the issues are ?
They are wrong to make misleading or false claims. Just as well that we have you to give us the real facts........
Yeadon said:
In the spring, membership of Sage was initially treated like a state secret. Eventually, membership was revealed. I was disappointed. I looked up the credentials of all the members. There were no clinical immunologists. No one who had a biology degree and a post-doctoral qualification in immunology. A few medics, sure. Several people from the humanities including sociologists, economists, psychologists and political theorists. What there were in profusion – seven in total – were mathematicians. This comprised the modelling group. It is their output that has been responsible for torturing the population for the last seven months or so.
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/what-sage-has-got-wrong/As regards models it is garbage in garbage out.
Ructions said:
I realize that we are simply kicking the can down the road, but our health service simply cannot cope as things stand. I don't crave a lockdown as you suggest, I simply think it is the simplest solution until we have found a vaccine. There is no right or wrong answer at this stage, but I would prefer to err on the side of caution.
People comparing Covid 19 to seasonal flu really have no idea, I have seen first hand what this virus can do to a person, there are going to be long term care/health issues if and when we come out the other side. A good friend of mine survived after spending 6 weeks in a coma, but he will never fully recover.
I fully sympathize with small business owners, but business can be reopened, you cannot open a coffin after 6 months and I really do think that we will be in various stages of lockdown until March 21 at least. Unfortunately people will end up on the dole, they have my sympathy. Our governments need to step up and help anyone who finds themselves in financial trouble, be that the self employed, small business owners or whoever needs financial help. The taxpayer in Ireland bailed the banks out to the tune of 40 odd billion, surely the government can bail its own citizens out during this crisis.
As soon as you personailse a discussion like this, you lose.People comparing Covid 19 to seasonal flu really have no idea, I have seen first hand what this virus can do to a person, there are going to be long term care/health issues if and when we come out the other side. A good friend of mine survived after spending 6 weeks in a coma, but he will never fully recover.
I fully sympathize with small business owners, but business can be reopened, you cannot open a coffin after 6 months and I really do think that we will be in various stages of lockdown until March 21 at least. Unfortunately people will end up on the dole, they have my sympathy. Our governments need to step up and help anyone who finds themselves in financial trouble, be that the self employed, small business owners or whoever needs financial help. The taxpayer in Ireland bailed the banks out to the tune of 40 odd billion, surely the government can bail its own citizens out during this crisis.
A tragedy for a single person should never ever be used as an excuse to form societal norms. You have one friend who has been and may well continue to be ill due to the impact of covid. That can easily be countered by another individual who committed suicide due directly to the impact of lockdown and job loss. Or another who died because required, ongoing cancer treatment was halted.
Sars-Cov-2 is now endemic in society, its going to come around every single year, just like flu, and it will kill and seriously impact a very small minority of people, just like flu and pneumonia do every year.
There is a limit to how much this country can borrow to through at furlough etc... and we're pretty much done in that regard.
The much vaunted "second wave" is no more than a ripple and is certainly no reason to start another round of lockdowns, which will most definitely cause more damage than covid.
Just to lighten the mood slightly I've actually thought of a genuine bonus to lockdown, a selfish one I know but here it is. Lockdown at Christmas, means no exposure to the outlaws Christmas and Sunday dinners in the run up, complete with the veggies pressure cooked until they are completely gone and then cooked a bit more just to make sure.
Hmmm crunchy sprouts for a change.
Ok back on with the whinging. 3,2,1...
Hmmm crunchy sprouts for a change.
Ok back on with the whinging. 3,2,1...
FiF said:
Just to lighten the mood slightly I've actually thought of a genuine bonus to lockdown, a selfish one I know but here it is. Lockdown at Christmas, means no exposure to the outlaws Christmas and Sunday dinners in the run up, complete with the veggies pressure cooked until they are completely gone and then cooked a bit more just to make sure.
Hmmm crunchy sprouts for a change.
Ok back on with the whinging. 3,2,1...
Hence why I've pre-ordered the PS5, for once no visiting over the short Christmas break - can spend it on my sofa, glass of wine in one hand controller in the other Hmmm crunchy sprouts for a change.
Ok back on with the whinging. 3,2,1...
Robertj21a said:
So, are we suggesting that all those medical experts, SAGE etc are wrong to highlight how serious the issues are ?
'We'? I. I am suggesting that if the government or their advisors use wrong or misrepresented data or fail to use relevant data, then yes they are wrong.The local NHS trusts and medical officer in Manchester disagree with the government's portrayal of their position. The data supports the locals. We were told by government they wanted to work more closely with local authorities, as they have their ear on the ground locally. Yet when the data and local knowledge contradicts the government's narrative, we end up in the current impasse. Make of that what you will.
FiF said:
Just to lighten the mood slightly I've actually thought of a genuine bonus to lockdown, a selfish one I know but here it is. Lockdown at Christmas, means no exposure to the outlaws Christmas and Sunday dinners in the run up, complete with the veggies pressure cooked until they are completely gone and then cooked a bit more just to make sure.
Hmmm crunchy sprouts for a change.
Ok back on with the whinging. 3,2,1...
Indeed. No turkey. Excellent.Hmmm crunchy sprouts for a change.
Ok back on with the whinging. 3,2,1...
Jinx said:
FiF said:
Just to lighten the mood slightly I've actually thought of a genuine bonus to lockdown, a selfish one I know but here it is. Lockdown at Christmas, means no exposure to the outlaws Christmas and Sunday dinners in the run up, complete with the veggies pressure cooked until they are completely gone and then cooked a bit more just to make sure.
Hmmm crunchy sprouts for a change.
Ok back on with the whinging. 3,2,1...
Hence why I've pre-ordered the PS5, for once no visiting over the short Christmas break - can spend it on my sofa, glass of wine in one hand controller in the other Hmmm crunchy sprouts for a change.
Ok back on with the whinging. 3,2,1...
JagLover said:
Robertj21a said:
JagLover said:
Robertj21a said:
So, are we suggesting that all those medical experts, SAGE etc are wrong to highlight how serious the issues are ?
They are wrong to make misleading or false claims. Just as well that we have you to give us the real facts........
Yeadon said:
In the spring, membership of Sage was initially treated like a state secret. Eventually, membership was revealed. I was disappointed. I looked up the credentials of all the members. There were no clinical immunologists. No one who had a biology degree and a post-doctoral qualification in immunology. A few medics, sure. Several people from the humanities including sociologists, economists, psychologists and political theorists. What there were in profusion – seven in total – were mathematicians. This comprised the modelling group. It is their output that has been responsible for torturing the population for the last seven months or so.
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/what-sage-has-got-wrong/As regards models it is garbage in garbage out.
And who knows who else the SAGE team liaise with in academia or industry?
GroundEffect said:
Still doesn't answer the question - what have they stated that is misleading or false?
This is the meeting when they proposed renewed lockdown (though they though rebranding it as a circuit breaker would make it more palatable. This looks to be the summary and I cannot find the full minutes at present https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
The misleading claims
Doubling every seven days-it isn't it is around every sixteen days per some of the charts over on the "cure" thread
They also warned
i said:
Sage warned that failing to reduce cases, while 90 per cent of the population remains susceptible to the virus, would “result in a very large epidemic with catastrophic consequences in terms of direct Covid-related deaths and the ability of the health service to meet needs”.
90% of the population may have no detectable anti-bodies but that does not mean that they are "susceptible" if exposed to the virus. A large proportion of the population has some immunity to reduce severity of the illness due to prior exposure to other Coronaviruses. Ructions said:
My sister in law is in a senior management position in for a large pharmaceutical company in the north west of England. She is in charge of procurement of PPE and various medicines which in turn get distributed to NHS hospitals throughout the UK and a number of hospitals here in Ireland. She would probably have regular contacts with heads of departments of various government agencies and taking what she says at face value she reckons we are in for a very long, tough winter. They are preparing for three times as many deaths during the second wave as we had in the first. They also supply the body bags.
My wife is an intensive care lead, so has an idea what’s happening real world, however I contribute very little here - no one listens 
they all know better. Just watch from afar as the tinfoil gets neatly folded into a hat.
Well, I've just witnessed a new low. My mum has been sending my two boys (1 and 4) a letter each week over lockdown with some chocolate in it as we can't see them (they are in a locked down area of South Wales while I am just over the border). This week's letter arrived today in a little plastic bag from Royal Mail with an apology on it - someone has carefully opened the envelope at on end and slipped both chocolates out. Only a couple of Freddos. What piece of fking st would be willing to lower themselves to the point that they would steal 50p worth of chocolate sent from a grandparent to their grandchild at a time when a lot of grandparents are unable to see their families?!
I've just got no words. I would fking love to meet the person who did that.
king st would be willing to lower themselves to the point that they would steal 50p worth of chocolate sent from a grandparent to their grandchild at a time when a lot of grandparents are unable to see their families?!I've just got no words. I would f
king love to meet the person who did that.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff