Taking the knee

[166 MM Barchetta]

Randy Winkman said:

166 MM Barchetta said:

Randy Winkman said:

Wacky Racer said:

Randy Winkman said:

"All lives matter" doesn't mean anything.

Of course it does, or are you saying they don't?

I think it's just a distraction from trying to address racism. I think that most people who say it aren't actually intending to solve any problem.

Good grief.
So only black people suffer from racism? It’s only BLM and anything else, any other incident of racism either “doesn’t mean anything” or never happens in your narrow minded world?
Maybe racism as a whole needs to be addressed, regardless of who is doing it to whom?

Is anyone doing anything about the "All lives matter cause"? Or do people who go on about it just want to distract from those who are trying to address racism?

“Cause”? Should there be a specific cause, or should the whole issue be addressed and fought against.

Are the”those” that you reference addressing all racism......nope.

Perhaps, some might use the phrase “all lives matter” to raise awareness that there is side of BLM that is using race issues as a divisive measure to a political end.

Or do you genuinely believe that BLM have in any way improved or in any way lessened racial issues or tensions.

[Randy Winkman]

166 MM Barchetta said:

Randy Winkman said:

166 MM Barchetta said:

Randy Winkman said:

Wacky Racer said:

Randy Winkman said:

"All lives matter" doesn't mean anything.

Of course it does, or are you saying they don't?

I think it's just a distraction from trying to address racism. I think that most people who say it aren't actually intending to solve any problem.

Good grief.
So only black people suffer from racism? It’s only BLM and anything else, any other incident of racism either “doesn’t mean anything” or never happens in your narrow minded world?
Maybe racism as a whole needs to be addressed, regardless of who is doing it to whom?

Is anyone doing anything about the "All lives matter cause"? Or do people who go on about it just want to distract from those who are trying to address racism?

“Cause”? Should there be a specific cause, or should the whole issue be addressed and fought against.

Are the”those” that you reference addressing all racism......nope.

Perhaps, some might use the phrase “all lives matter” to raise awareness that there is side of BLM that is using race issues as a divisive measure to a political end.

Or do you genuinely believe that BLM have in any way improved or in any way lessened racial issues or tensions.

Yes. I my world the have drawn attention to the fact that racism is still a big issue. By the way, I don't really like the idea of corporations aligning themselves with BLM (due to political connotations) or the fact that football players are still taking the knee (because it's just a gesture that's had its day). I still think it's good that BLM happened. Sad it had to though.

[ChevronB19]

Borghetto said:

166 MM Barchetta said:

Uhtred said:

Borghetto said:

Grow up and stop ranting like a 14 year old.

Looks like I was right

Bet your face is an extraordinary shade of pink right now.

So you’re making ignorant assumptions and harassing someone because of their skin colour........

Irony is lost on these woke idiots. One day they'll land jobs and feel they have a stake in our society. Until then they'll waste their energy and pocket money on causes they have little if any direct knowledge of. But if it keeps them off the streets and occupied, there's no real damage done. I'll bet their parents are fed up to their back teeth with the never ending preaching.

Do you disagree with the formal definition? I’d be happy to say I’m ‘woke’.

adjectiveINFORMAL•US
adjective: woke; comparative adjective: woker; superlative adjective: wokest
alert to injustice in society, especially racism.
"we need to stay angry, and stay woke"

[sim72]

ChevronB19 said:

Do you disagree with the formal definition? I’d be happy to say I’m ‘woke’.

adjectiveINFORMAL•US
adjective: woke; comparative adjective: woker; superlative adjective: wokest
alert to injustice in society, especially racism.
"we need to stay angry, and stay woke"

Yes, I'm always slightly confused at those who use "woke" as some sort of pejorative. I presume they're the same people that spent the 1980s saying "it's political correctness gone mad!"

[Esceptico]

230TE said:

The problem is that the message has been appropriated by a bunch of would-be Marxist revolutionaries who have hopelessly toxified the entire BLM "brand". There is a long-standing problem with racism in football, black players being abused by fans, and I think the FA are right to take a strong line. But how many people will read the FA's statement, think about it and understand the distinction between message and organisation? A minute's silence for victims of racist violence would be more powerful IMO than "taking the knee". Standing in silence is how we show respect in this country, and people who interrupt that silence tend to be seen as utter knobs.

Frankly criticising the BLM statement by linking it to an organisation that has appropriated the phrase for their own benefit is just pathetic. Strange that it is almost always raised by the “I’m not a racist, but...” brigade.

Until all the wibble on here by the rampant “anti-Marxists” I has no idea or interest in the BLM organisation. The slogan BLM has become popular because it succinctly captures the issue faced by black people ie that historically their lives have not mattered as much as white lives. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of US history knows that and anyone who has any experience of the US today knows that racism is still rampant today.

[230TE]

Esceptico said:

230TE said:

The problem is that the message has been appropriated by a bunch of would-be Marxist revolutionaries who have hopelessly toxified the entire BLM "brand". There is a long-standing problem with racism in football, black players being abused by fans, and I think the FA are right to take a strong line. But how many people will read the FA's statement, think about it and understand the distinction between message and organisation? A minute's silence for victims of racist violence would be more powerful IMO than "taking the knee". Standing in silence is how we show respect in this country, and people who interrupt that silence tend to be seen as utter knobs.

Frankly criticising the BLM statement by linking it to an organisation that has appropriated the phrase for their own benefit is just pathetic. Strange that it is almost always raised by the “I’m not a racist, but...” brigade.

Until all the wibble on here by the rampant “anti-Marxists” I has no idea or interest in the BLM organisation. The slogan BLM has become popular because it succinctly captures the issue faced by black people ie that historically their lives have not mattered as much as white lives. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of US history knows that and anyone who has any experience of the US today knows that racism is still rampant today.

You'd probably need to read the post quoted above alongside my earlier one in which I specifically addressed the issues around the "taking the knee" gesture being used in the UK. It's one of the problems with this kind of debating format, you think you're developing an argument in stages but in reality you're just making isolated points that don't get joined up. I'm not a racist, but... I'm not a racist. If you think you have evidence to show otherwise, feel free to produce it. I was cured of racism at the age of nine, when I got into an argument with a Nigerian kid at school, called him a nr and got the crap beaten out of me

[BrundanBianchi]

[Driver101]

If you were to pick the fans that would behave in such a way Millwall would be high on the list.

[230TE]

Driver101 said:

If you were to pick the fans that would behave in such a way Millwall would be high on the list.

Local news here reporting the same thing happened yesterday with Colchester Utd at home to Grimsby Town. I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of this. FA is now in a very awkward position - ban "taking the knee" (i.e. give in to racists) or start punishing clubs for having supporters who, depending on your point of view, are either racist or who think "taking the knee" is a load of old toss?

[T6 vanman]

Esceptico said:

Frankly criticising the BLM statement by linking it to an organisation that has appropriated the phrase for their own benefit is just pathetic. Strange that it is almost always raised by the “I’m not a racist, but...” brigade.

Until all the wibble on here by the rampant “anti-Marxists” I has no idea or interest in the BLM organisation. The slogan BLM has become popular because it succinctly captures the issue faced by black people ie that historically their lives have not mattered as much as white lives. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of US history knows that and anyone who has any experience of the US today knows that racism is still rampant today.

Without wishing to disturb your debate with 230TE, His facts still stand that many people ... myself included and fiercely antiracist in our outlook and actions but feel no affinity to BLM ... You are falling into the BLM (the Marxist brigade) trap about the US this & the US/far far past history UK that ..... dictating if you don't bow to their dictate then you are wrong and need calling out ... no if's no buts,
But what about real coloured people injustice, Mass murders in Sudan, genocide in Rwanda, The Congo, Uganda, Corruption, punishment rape & killings in Zimbabwe and all through Southern Africa,

[Esceptico]

T6 vanman said:

Without wishing to disturb your debate with 230TE, His facts still stand that many people ... myself included and fiercely antiracist in our outlook and actions but feel no affinity to BLM ... You are falling into the BLM (the Marxist brigade) trap about the US this & the US/far far past history UK that ..... dictating if you don't bow to their dictate then you are wrong and need calling out ... no if's no buts,
But what about real coloured people injustice, Mass murders in Sudan, genocide in Rwanda, The Congo, Uganda, Corruption, punishment rape & killings in Zimbabwe and all through Southern Africa,

Did you delete or forget to write half your post because I can’t really understand what you are trying to say.

[Esceptico]

BrundanBianchi said:

So your only a real man if you kill people?

Presumably you would be happy telling a bunch of black NFL players (to their face) about how they are not real men?

[Esceptico]

powerstroke said:

All I know is BLM has set race relations back years,
Just as we were becoming colour blind and thinking
About the person as a person these bellends come along and now it’s not equality it’s special treatment
and positive discrimination, I’m amazed the push back isn’t harder, mind I most people see it as yet another way like extinction rebellion for unemployable cretins to find a way to make money ...

How come is it almost only white people that say ALM rather than BLM and that BLM has set back race relationships?

[Uhtred]

166 MM Barchetta said:

You are an utterly repugnant and vile individual for in any way aligning me with this organisation.
Shameful coward.

You mentioned earlier that racism as a whole needs to be addressed, regardless of who is doing it to whom.

Can I ask therefore what exactly it is you have done to address the issue of racism? I’m sure it’s a topic you’ve been passionate about prior to the inception of BLM so would just like some examples.

[ddom]

Esceptico said:

How come is it almost only white people that say ALM rather than BLM and that BLM has set back race relationships?

You disagree?

[ATG]

Blue One said:

It’s interesting to see from some of the replies on here that people are either intellectually unable, or unwilling, to separate anti-racism from a fairly loathsome Marxist movement and that the FA/clubs embracing this movement’s symbol at the beginning of each match was ill-advised and damaging to the objectivity and independence of the game.

Also, no-one has said that the Millwall fans aren’t racist, just the observation that fans not liking this overt political gesture are been ignored up to now because Lockdown conveniently allowed those behind it the impunity to enforce it.

Many different factors here, all separate, all linked, but all different.

Perhaps many people disagree with your description of BLM as a "fairly loathsome Marxist movement"? Honestly, if that's your summation of what's clearly a very disparate group that clearly isn't an organisation in any useful sense, perhaps you shouldn't be questioning other people's intellectual ability? Ascribing any single, coherent political or economic viewpoint to BLM is pretty silly.

If you object to someone's behaviour or beliefs it only makes to sense to critique what they actually do or think. Making stuff up gives the impression that you either can't articulate what you actually object to, or you aren't prepared to state your objections honestly.

[ATG]

Fittster said:

I do wonder if Millwall supporters and other racists could provide a critique Marxism.

I doubt they could spell it.

[sim72]

"All Lives Matter" is just cognitive dissonance, though, as it presumes that "Black Lives Matter" = "Black Lives Matter more than other lives", which is clearly not what BLM was set up to highlight.

To show how nonsensical it is, If I set up a GoFundMe to raise money for the Teenage Cancer Trust, would you say "Well, what about teenagers that haven't got cancer? What are you doing for them?"

[Seattaken]

Esceptico said:

T6 vanman said:

Without wishing to disturb your debate with 230TE, His facts still stand that many people ... myself included and fiercely antiracist in our outlook and actions but feel no affinity to BLM ... You are falling into the BLM (the Marxist brigade) trap about the US this & the US/far far past history UK that ..... dictating if you don't bow to their dictate then you are wrong and need calling out ... no if's no buts,
But what about real coloured people injustice, Mass murders in Sudan, genocide in Rwanda, The Congo, Uganda, Corruption, punishment rape & killings in Zimbabwe and all through Southern Africa,

Did you delete or forget to write half your post because I can’t really understand what you are trying to say.

It appears to be a load of "whatabout isms" akin to saying that Africa is a place of darkness, where furious savages clobber each other on the head to assuage their dark ancestral bloodlusts, without appreciating Europes complicity in these atrocities.

[Esceptico]

ddom said:

You disagree?

Disagree with what? Disagree that BLM has set back race relations? I would want some evidence that was the case rather than people stating it as a fact. Perhaps it is me but I’m struggling to think of the people I know who aren’t racists getting worked up about BLM yet I know that racist ones (who for one reason or the other I can’t fully avoid) do get worked up about BLM. I don’t think that is a coincidence.