Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 11
Discussion
ScotHill said:
emicen said:
Just for entertainment, I did a quick check on what it would mean to give up taking the car to work. Not going to quote postcodes obviously, but I live on the western side of Whitburn and work near Eurocentral.
It is 12.0 miles door to door, googlemaps says 15min which is pretty much spot on. Couple of trucks elephant racing up the hill past the services and another set doing the same down the hill after the Kirk will add a minute at most. Any accidents on the M8, the 11.2 mile backroad alternative comes in to play and its 17min.
But what if I cared about the planet enough to use public transport? Well, we have no park and ride or “public transport hub” as the decade old planning consent called it. Our wonderful SNP controlled council has deigned to kick that can down the road until another ~250 houses are built or 2025 arrives, whichever happens first.
My options are therefore quite challenging, as no local bus company crosses from West Lothian in to Lanarkshire at that time in the morning. Picking the ‘best’ of the 3 routes suggested and needing to arrive in work for a 7am start time:
At 45ppm my commute costs me £5.40 and 17mins of my life, the public transport being £15.70 and 2hrs 19min.
The journey home is more sensible though, it only takes 56mins with a walk at each end, a ride with bus company #5 then transferring to Bus company #1, but needing to add another zone of travel
Electric bike, you could cycle that in an hour, or at least cut out some of the faffing.It is 12.0 miles door to door, googlemaps says 15min which is pretty much spot on. Couple of trucks elephant racing up the hill past the services and another set doing the same down the hill after the Kirk will add a minute at most. Any accidents on the M8, the 11.2 mile backroad alternative comes in to play and its 17min.
But what if I cared about the planet enough to use public transport? Well, we have no park and ride or “public transport hub” as the decade old planning consent called it. Our wonderful SNP controlled council has deigned to kick that can down the road until another ~250 houses are built or 2025 arrives, whichever happens first.
My options are therefore quite challenging, as no local bus company crosses from West Lothian in to Lanarkshire at that time in the morning. Picking the ‘best’ of the 3 routes suggested and needing to arrive in work for a 7am start time:
- Leave my house 4:34am [yes, really]
- 5min walk to the appropriate bus stop
- 31min bus ride [Bus company #1 - £4 day ticket]
- 9min wait at the hospital in Livingston
- 7min bus ride [Bus company #2 - £1.80 each way]
- 11min walk through a scheme, over a railway then along a path dividing some woods with the back of an industrial estate
- 27min wait at Deer Park
- 26min on the 900 bus, meaning that at approximately 6:15am I would be passing my house on the M8, having spent 1hr and 41min going in the opposite direction to my work [Bus company #3 - £8.10 single, £10 return]
- 10min wait at Maxim Business Park
- 5min bus ride [Bus company #4 - £1.80 each way]
- 8min walk to work arriving at 6:53am
At 45ppm my commute costs me £5.40 and 17mins of my life, the public transport being £15.70 and 2hrs 19min.
The journey home is more sensible though, it only takes 56mins with a walk at each end, a ride with bus company #5 then transferring to Bus company #1, but needing to add another zone of travel
Another thing to consider is luggage space. I work in construction and carry my PPE in my car including safety shoes, hi-viz jacket, gloves, safety glasses, hard hat, etc and that is in addition to my laptop and packed lunch! there is no way I would be lugging all that on and off a bus or train.
There is of course another side...people just don't want to use manky slow puplic transport, end off.
The Scottish government wasn't elected to make us worse off, push non male/female personel agenda's, divide the country, be rasist to the controling party of the UK, all this deflection does not make Scotland better.
It is quite clear the SNP are way out of their depth at running a small country like Scotland, can you imagine the damage that a Labour SNP coalition could do to the whole of the UK...it would make you seriously think about leaving.
The Scottish government wasn't elected to make us worse off, push non male/female personel agenda's, divide the country, be rasist to the controling party of the UK, all this deflection does not make Scotland better.
It is quite clear the SNP are way out of their depth at running a small country like Scotland, can you imagine the damage that a Labour SNP coalition could do to the whole of the UK...it would make you seriously think about leaving.
Nice article in the New Statesman.
Until now every policy has been considered with a veto on anything that might effect the drive for indy. Hence the incompetent govt and many failures. No policy which would alienate potential SNP voters saw the light of day. Until now.
"It is indeed baffling that the only issue on which Nicola Sturgeon has dared go against public opinion in her nine years in office is one that is intended to benefit a tiny proportion of the population. Her proposed reforms to make it easier to legally change gender were controversial from the start, raised howls of anger from those worried about their potential impact on women’s rights and, as the U-turn on trans prisoners has proved, were ill thought through. I don’t doubt Sturgeon’s heart is in her gender activism but she has handled the whole affair so badly that the only possible verdict is that she left her brain unplugged. Either that or the Greens that she so foolishly invited into her government are holding some damaging kompromat over her head.
Sturgeon has also undeniably set back the independence cause."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/202...
Until now every policy has been considered with a veto on anything that might effect the drive for indy. Hence the incompetent govt and many failures. No policy which would alienate potential SNP voters saw the light of day. Until now.
"It is indeed baffling that the only issue on which Nicola Sturgeon has dared go against public opinion in her nine years in office is one that is intended to benefit a tiny proportion of the population. Her proposed reforms to make it easier to legally change gender were controversial from the start, raised howls of anger from those worried about their potential impact on women’s rights and, as the U-turn on trans prisoners has proved, were ill thought through. I don’t doubt Sturgeon’s heart is in her gender activism but she has handled the whole affair so badly that the only possible verdict is that she left her brain unplugged. Either that or the Greens that she so foolishly invited into her government are holding some damaging kompromat over her head.
Sturgeon has also undeniably set back the independence cause."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/202...
Meanwhile a survey shows approx 200'000 Scots have made trips to England to buy cheaper booze.
(not bought some while in England for another reason)
https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2023/01/s...
MUP working well - for off licences in Berwick and Carlisle.
(not bought some while in England for another reason)
https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2023/01/s...
MUP working well - for off licences in Berwick and Carlisle.
irc said:
Meanwhile a survey shows approx 200'000 Scots have made trips to England to buy cheaper booze.
(not bought some while in England for another reason)
https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2023/01/s...
MUP working well - for off licences in Berwick and Carlisle.
(not bought some while in England for another reason)
https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2023/01/s...
MUP working well - for off licences in Berwick and Carlisle.
I've said this before.
I live in Scotland and have family in Lancashire,a few of us meet up 3 or 4 times a year at Carlisle for breakfast and a booze cruise.Pioneer foods,just off junction 43 of the M6.They do a cracking breakfast and it's a hell of a shop,the butchers counter is top drawer.Anyone from Pioneer foods reads this,send my commission to the General Price benevolent fund.
Last time we were down it was a Sunday,Asda and Tesco were mobbed with Scots,it was like Brits in Calais 20 yrs ago.
Klippie said:
There is of course another side...people just don't want to use manky slow puplic transport, end off.
This.My car has climate control that I'm in charge of. I choose the music playing. I don't have to stop at random locations where I am not traveling to. I don't have any smelly people in my car who try to talk to me.
Public transport has to be significantly easier and cheaper than driving for it to be viable. It isn't. Its more expensive and a pain in the arse.
Also, buses are for losers.
sherman said:
Starfighter said:
Is that why the SNP want to ban cars? Stop the booze cruses down the M74.
You can still transport vast quantities on a coach 
Parsnip said:
Also, buses are for losers.
Interesting point - I always wondered how the transport operators made any money on local bus routes as the buses I see are always virtually empty . I take it they are heavily subsidised by the Government ? Must be, as the chap I met last week has financed a rather nice car collection from his bus fleet . ds666 said:
Parsnip said:
Also, buses are for losers.
Interesting point - I always wondered how the transport operators made any money on local bus routes as the buses I see are always virtually empty . I take it they are heavily subsidised by the Government ? Must be, as the chap I met last week has financed a rather nice car collection from his bus fleet . Public transport operators should be publicly owned and funded. They shouldn't be run for profit as they need constant heavy investment to work.
ZedLeg said:
They won't always be empty for the whole route but you've hit on the main problem with public transport being privately owned.
Public transport operators should be publicly owned and funded. They shouldn't be run for profit as they need constant heavy investment to work.
Investment? You mean subsidy.Public transport operators should be publicly owned and funded. They shouldn't be run for profit as they need constant heavy investment to work.
ScotRail is publicly owned. The service hasn't improved as far as I can gather.
Pre Covid ScotRail received about a billion a year subsidy.
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-scotrail/fit-futu...
As for buses, since over 60s and under 21s get free bus travel there is a huge subsidy there.
I accept the need for some subsidy for public transport but there is no money to expand it further. What taxes would you increase or what current budget would you cut to do it?
irc said:
ZedLeg said:
They won't always be empty for the whole route but you've hit on the main problem with public transport being privately owned.
Public transport operators should be publicly owned and funded. They shouldn't be run for profit as they need constant heavy investment to work.
Investment? You mean subsidy.Public transport operators should be publicly owned and funded. They shouldn't be run for profit as they need constant heavy investment to work.
ScotRail is publicly owned. The service hasn't improved as far as I can gather.
Pre Covid ScotRail received about a billion a year subsidy.
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-scotrail/fit-futu...
As for buses, since over 60s and under 21s get free bus travel there is a huge subsidy there.
I accept the need for some subsidy for public transport but there is no money to expand it further. What taxes would you increase or what current budget would you cut to do it?
Ecosseven said:
I'm all for an improved public transport system and would certainly use it if I lived and worked in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, or any other large city. However for most people outside of the city a car is likely to be the best option as long as parking isn't an issue as it's quicker, more comfortable, cheaper, and offers total flexibility around timing of the journey.
Another thing to consider is luggage space. I work in construction and carry my PPE in my car including safety shoes, hi-viz jacket, gloves, safety glasses, hard hat, etc and that is in addition to my laptop and packed lunch! there is no way I would be lugging all that on and off a bus or train.
You often see builders in London carting huge amounts of gear on the tube. I guess it just depends what the tipping point is in terms of convenience, journey time, cost etc. The problem is that inevitably, it’ll be all “stick” in Scotland, ie workplace parking levies, reduced amounts of parking, slower journeys and not “carrot”, eg faster, cheaper, more frequent services, more free parking at railheads on the outskirts of cities. Another thing to consider is luggage space. I work in construction and carry my PPE in my car including safety shoes, hi-viz jacket, gloves, safety glasses, hard hat, etc and that is in addition to my laptop and packed lunch! there is no way I would be lugging all that on and off a bus or train.
irc said:
As for buses, since over 60s and under 21s get free bus travel there is a huge subsidy there.
Checked Scotrail’s website for tickets a moment ago, thinking how I could use the bike and train for the same journey. There’s some size of drop down box for railcards, shame none of them apply to average working 31-49 year olds.alangla said:
Ecosseven said:
I'm all for an improved public transport system and would certainly use it if I lived and worked in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, or any other large city. However for most people outside of the city a car is likely to be the best option as long as parking isn't an issue as it's quicker, more comfortable, cheaper, and offers total flexibility around timing of the journey.
Another thing to consider is luggage space. I work in construction and carry my PPE in my car including safety shoes, hi-viz jacket, gloves, safety glasses, hard hat, etc and that is in addition to my laptop and packed lunch! there is no way I would be lugging all that on and off a bus or train.
You often see builders in London carting huge amounts of gear on the tube. I guess it just depends what the tipping point is in terms of convenience, journey time, cost etc. The problem is that inevitably, it’ll be all “stick” in Scotland, ie workplace parking levies, reduced amounts of parking, slower journeys and not “carrot”, eg faster, cheaper, more frequent services, more free parking at railheads on the outskirts of cities. Another thing to consider is luggage space. I work in construction and carry my PPE in my car including safety shoes, hi-viz jacket, gloves, safety glasses, hard hat, etc and that is in addition to my laptop and packed lunch! there is no way I would be lugging all that on and off a bus or train.
I am happy to use public transport where it suits my needs but this is probably limited to 4 or 5 times a year.
emicen said:
Checked Scotrail’s website for tickets a moment ago, thinking how I could use the bike and train for the same journey. There’s some size of drop down box for railcards, shame none of them apply to average working 31-49 year olds.
It’s worth looking to see if there’s a flexipass available for the journey you want to do, they’re about 1/3 cheaper than a peak return and you get 2 months to use the 10 journeys. Annoyingly, they’re only available on certain routes and not to some stations that you’d probably only travel to as part of a commute, eg Anderston.To be fair, there is a 6 month off-peak all day fare offer coming up soon. As ever it’s been ballsed up by this mob by being announced with a big fanfare, then being found to be for certain routes only, then being extended to all routes.
I really wish they’d go back to the 2019 timetable and bin the current “s
t for the future” one. It’s left big gaps in the timetables including the aforementioned hourly trains on some Glasgow suburban lines.The council budgets are under pressure, and the old faithfull is once again dragged out which suddenly makes it all right, matter closed.
"The Scottish government said it recognised the challenging circumstances facing councils, and said "a decade of austerity" had seen a 5% real-term cut in the amount of money that Holyrood received from Westminster"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-po...
"The Scottish government said it recognised the challenging circumstances facing councils, and said "a decade of austerity" had seen a 5% real-term cut in the amount of money that Holyrood received from Westminster"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-po...
Deposit return scheme going well:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64484085
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64484085
Innis and Gunn founder said:
"Without signing up to the producer agreement we cannot sell anything in Scotland. It's that simple.
"But the big problem is that, contained within the producer agreement, is an obligation that will require Innis & Gunn, in the event that the scheme doesn't launch on 16 August this year, to pay significant sums of money into Circularity Scotland.
"So it is a case of 'if you don't sign up you can't trade' and 'if you do sign up and we don't launch you're on the hook for significant sums of money'."
So basically the Scottish Government are charging producers regardless of whether the scheme launches or not? No wonder a lot are talking about withdrawing. Also, what does this mean for some of the obscure foreign bottled beers that get imported to this country in relatively small quantities? Is it basically Tennents or a trip to Carlisle?"But the big problem is that, contained within the producer agreement, is an obligation that will require Innis & Gunn, in the event that the scheme doesn't launch on 16 August this year, to pay significant sums of money into Circularity Scotland.
"So it is a case of 'if you don't sign up you can't trade' and 'if you do sign up and we don't launch you're on the hook for significant sums of money'."
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