What's Italian for 'kipper? Anti-migrant stunt goes awry.
Discussion
Back on thread, re smears and scandals. Is it a smear to say that if you go to the UKIP fora you see xenophobic, sometimes racist, and homophobic rants? Is it a smear to say that a UKIP Councillor said that gays cause bad weather? Is it a smear to mention Mr Bongo Bongo Land? Is it a smear to mention UKIP MEP expenses shenanigans? Is it a smear to say that Lord Pearson said all the stuff that he said? Nige is more careful, and is only ever mendacious on purpose and for good effect, but others are less guarded. The list of gaffes, faux pas, and oopses (some funny, some rather unpleasant) is endless, but we are to infer, I gather, that none of these are "the real UKIP".
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 10th April 12:48
Mark Benson said:
So it's just your idea of passing the time while working. Fine.
Odd. But fine, if that's what floats your boat. At least I'll know what to expect when I see a thread title with your name against it.
...
HTH. Another top tip: clicking on any thread is optional, and so is reading any post in any thread. Now, I have just beaten my document deadline (marginally), and am off to drive my daughter about in the sunshine in a ridiculous old car*, so won't be able to annoy you for a while. Hope you can manage to get through the empty hours until some mug hires me again and/or I can persuade the RAC to tow me home. Odd. But fine, if that's what floats your boat. At least I'll know what to expect when I see a thread title with your name against it.
...
* made in Northern Italy, bloody hell!
Daughter faffing with hair dryer, so will just lob in to say that the teeny tiny snagette with simple solutions to complex problems is, er.... they don't work. If they did, they would already be in place, as people are naturally lazy and prefer the easy way if it is available; but sadly, when people are trying to run a twenty first century polity, it isn't.
PS: another tippety top UKIP to the max post, BTW. Keep up the excellent work!
PS: another tippety top UKIP to the max post, BTW. Keep up the excellent work!
Bill said:
WinstonWolf said:
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Just because I'm unconvinced by UKIP it doesn't mean I approve of corruption and rampant self-interest evident in other parties.So I'll throw stones wherever I please.
Remember, UKIP sells itself as the party of plain dealing, honesty, and breaking the grip of the political class. UKIP itself has, as the dudes at the Bailey say, put character in issue, and this makes relevant their feet of clay and their fully paid up membership of the political class.
Amongst all the MPs who are total rotters, the mainstream parties all have some backbench MPs (and maybe even a very few front bench ones) who are principled, public spirited, hard working, and earn their pay. UKIP, by contrast, has some MEPs who cynically bank the cash while doing little more than letting off figurative whoopee cushions in the Europarl. The Europarl is mostly pretty useless (after Lisbon it may possibly be less so), but the "look at me, pub mates, I'm the faux-eccentric in the back row making bunny ears above the Returning Officer's head, what a hoot, eh?" stuff is pretty old.
OMG EVIL EU IN EVIL PLOT TO STEAL OUR NUMBERPLATES OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thus one or other of the tabs today. Well, if it puts an end to personalised (AKA: "I am a total knob and I would like to share that fact with you") plates, maybe that will just swing it for me at voting time.
(...and, yes, I am aware of the counter argument that a personalised plate performs a public service by broadcasting "knob, avoid" to other road users, but if the ban goes through you can still produce that effect by driving a white Audi.)
Thus one or other of the tabs today. Well, if it puts an end to personalised (AKA: "I am a total knob and I would like to share that fact with you") plates, maybe that will just swing it for me at voting time.
(...and, yes, I am aware of the counter argument that a personalised plate performs a public service by broadcasting "knob, avoid" to other road users, but if the ban goes through you can still produce that effect by driving a white Audi.)
rs1952 said:
...
Here's a worked example to illustrate the point.
When I hit the big 6-0 in 2012, I bought myself an Old Geezers Railcard - £65 for 3 years, and you get a third off the ticket price. Since then, I have spent about £1000 down the ticket office, the non-discounted fare for the tickets I bought would have been about £1500, so there's a saving of £500, less the cost of the Railcard so I am £435 in hand.
...
So you buy an expensive ticket the price of which no one understands, it's driven by ex-communists, it doesn't go where you want, you can't get off and you have to share the journey with millions of poor people. Its a great analogy rs! Here's a worked example to illustrate the point.
When I hit the big 6-0 in 2012, I bought myself an Old Geezers Railcard - £65 for 3 years, and you get a third off the ticket price. Since then, I have spent about £1000 down the ticket office, the non-discounted fare for the tickets I bought would have been about £1500, so there's a saving of £500, less the cost of the Railcard so I am £435 in hand.
...
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 11th April 02:44
brenflys777 said:
but it's really easy to smear UKIP by saying they attract racists without providing any evidence.
There is plenty of evidence, but those UKIP supporters who are not themselves racists or xenophobes, naturally uncomfortable about accepting that they are consorting with less tolerant people, often put their fingers in their ears and say la la la when it is produced.Look first at what the founder of UKIP says -
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/26/ukip-fo...
In this New Staggers article, ignore the spin of the author, but look at the quotations from UKIP figures. It is hard to see how those quotations could have been somehow wrested from context to give a misleading impression. The words seem pretty clear.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-...
This Mirror headline is slanted, as the story is mainly about homophobia, not racism, but it shows some ugly bigotry -
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ugly-face-uki...
Even the Mail, that famous bastion of left wing bias, joins in -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2537834/UK...
The Mirror and the Mail, eh? Bit down market. Let's try the Telegraph -
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100261...
Another Telegraph blogger has a slightly different take -
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/1...
Lastly, here is Nige yet again defending some unfortunate leisure time choices made by members of his party. All parties have rogues and rotters, but Nige is the only party leader who has to spend quite so much time apologising for, disowning and expelling his followers.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/1067...
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 11th April 10:10
That's the point. Nige says that he is a truth teller, alone amongst politicos in this regard, but the truths that he purports to tell are on analysis carefully crafted spin jobs. It is a credit to his political skills (and a tribute to the eternal biddability of voters) that a politician who makes mendacity an art form has obtained a reputation among some of the electorate as the only honest Sheriff in Dodge.
turbobloke said:
In politics, honesty is relative. Compared to the Liarbores (nickname says it all) Billy Liar is honest.
They were dreadful, but you are a bit of a stuck record on that, TB. My fair minded Tory friends* accept that, despite the dreadful cock ups wrought by Blair and Brown, not all woes facing the UK can be laid at the door of the 1997-2010 administration, but you appear to have a fairtyale Big Bad Wolf Gingerbread House view of politics (and indeed of every subject). This comes across as a tad one dimensional. * Yes, I know that the notion of a fair minded Tory is almost as implausible as the notion of me having friends, but there are a few.
Countdown said:
He's a snake oil salesman. However, so far, not enough people have been gullible enough to buy what he's selling.
Fortunately, that is true. On UKIP as on many issues, NPE operates inside its own special silo, so the 'kippers here may gain a distorted sense that they are somehow the majority voice of reason, with just a few fringe eccentrics committing heresy against the Holy Word of St NIge. Most of the Electorate is sensible enough to disregard UKIP as a passing protest fad/bunch of reactionary hateys.Protest vote, Guam. I am surprised that someone such as you who appears to possess at the very least half a brain can't see through the flim flam. UKIP is just as dodgy on expenses etc as the rest. Arguably worse, as even Miller did some actual work in between raiding the till.
I am as disgusted as you are by Miller et al, but that doesn't lead me to the arms of another bunch of scroungey fibbers who have nothing to offer but "We're agin stuff".
I am as disgusted as you are by Miller et al, but that doesn't lead me to the arms of another bunch of scroungey fibbers who have nothing to offer but "We're agin stuff".
Farage is indeed playing a blinder, but Osborne, whom I am not a fan of either, is playing a better one, and my money is on him. I hate to say it, but I think that the Tories will get back in with a small majority, survivable minority, or another coalition with a tame Libdem rump. Labour? Close, but no cigar. Greens nowhere. BNP nowhere. UKIP, revised estimate 0 to 1 MPs. I said maybe 0 to 3 before, but was over egging it, I think.
UKIP ascendancy? I think you may have meant ascent. Ascendancy would be something else, and I would not bet a lot on that ever happening.
UKIP ascendancy? I think you may have meant ascent. Ascendancy would be something else, and I would not bet a lot on that ever happening.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 11th April 11:04
Guam said:
Breadvan72 said:
Farage is indeed playing a blinder, but Osborne, whom I am not a fan of either, is playing a better one, and my money is on him.
UKIP ascendancy? I think you may have meant ascent. Ascendancy would be something else, and I would not bet a lot on that ever happening.
Look like others I am doing three things at the same time, if you wish to take Grammar apart, then were I you, I would start with that new statesman article that seems to have been written by a drunk teenager (one of the worst structured pieces of writing I think I have ever seen).UKIP ascendancy? I think you may have meant ascent. Ascendancy would be something else, and I would not bet a lot on that ever happening.
Btw I was surprised that even you would bring up the comedian (loose description) incident, having seen many stand up comics in my almost 6 decades, I have yet to see anyone vet their material prior to the "show".
I would not doubt similar incidents could be found across the length and breadth of Britain, on any Saturday night, the right way to handle that would be to leave imho.
Offensive material doesnt survive for long when the audience departs.
However using that as some kind of weapon to illustrate a party's predispositions is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Your attempt to suggest that the UKIP types at that dinner accidentally hired a comedian who is known to be Bernard Manning Lite and then only stayed, laughing politely but actually deploring his off colour gags, because they are all terribly well brought up is too laughable to warrant comment. For someone who keeps on telling us that he isn't a UKIP type, and is just here to see that fairness and balance are maintained, you seem to be getting a tad desperate in your slavishly adoring defence of the party that you don't slavishly adore.
Off for lunch, see yers later.
AJS- said:
Then I'll say yes they have a rough and ready sense of humour that might not go down well at Lib Dem central but wouldn't really shock anyone who has worked amongst us commoners, let alone on a building site.
A bit of a careless move for a political party, but hardly evidence of them being seething neo fascists.
This is the 1953 point again. It used to be considered funny to say A bit of a careless move for a political party, but hardly evidence of them being seething neo fascists.
and so forth, but now it isn't. The so called comic didn't say , as far as I know, but the gag line was basically "All foreigners are thieves etc". This is just a joke, but anyone with a real sense of humour doesn't laugh at it, and the person who does laugh at it is telling you something about what he or she really thinks about foreigners. This is not about PC (PC is nonsense, and to be ignored, and you should hear the filthy banter amongst a bunch of female human rights lawyers at a lawyer party - builders would blush). It's about being stuck in 1953. Also, builders are splendid blokes (mostly blokes) and building is a noble art, but although builders are very welcome in Parliament and we could do with more there, they have to leave the building site behind when they aspire to political influence.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 11th April 13:05
rs1952 said:
fblm said:
rs1952 said:
...
Here's a worked example to illustrate the point.
When I hit the big 6-0 in 2012, I bought myself an Old Geezers Railcard - £65 for 3 years, and you get a third off the ticket price. Since then, I have spent about £1000 down the ticket office, the non-discounted fare for the tickets I bought would have been about £1500, so there's a saving of £500, less the cost of the Railcard so I am £435 in hand.
...
So you buy an expensive ticket the price of which no one understands, it's driven by ex-communists, it doesn't go where you want, you can't get off and you have to share the journey with millions of poor people. Its a great analogy rs! Here's a worked example to illustrate the point.
When I hit the big 6-0 in 2012, I bought myself an Old Geezers Railcard - £65 for 3 years, and you get a third off the ticket price. Since then, I have spent about £1000 down the ticket office, the non-discounted fare for the tickets I bought would have been about £1500, so there's a saving of £500, less the cost of the Railcard so I am £435 in hand.
...
) that this reply was written in jest, it does I think sum up the issue I raised with the analogy quite nicely."Lets think of the worst possible spin we can put on this and put it out as indisputable fact"
You are His Nigeness's speech writer AICMFP
If we all agree UKIP are just a bunch of nasty racist xenophobes that doesn't actually mean they are wrong about the EU or our relationship with it, just that their reasoning is dumb. The nationalist card, played blind, will likely win them more votes than trying to explain the benefits of a free trade area versus a creeping federal superstate to a largely ambivalent electorate. Frankly Nu-Labour and the ex-Tory party need a fvcking rocket up them. If BV and co. are right about UKIP then IMO they are a necessary evil to get us a referendum and if BV and Co. are right about the EU then it should be an easy sell to get an IN vote. No harm no fowl. Just a few ruffled feathers. Of course, if the three main parties don't have much of a case, an IN vote won't be such an easy sell and you should never ask a question you don't know the answer to, eh BV?
Of course, if the three main parties don't have much of a case, an IN vote won't be such an easy sell and you should never ask a question you don't know the answer to, eh BV? AJS- said:
So maybe your 1953 point fails and people outside of the Westminster bubble don't actually find these jokes all that offensive? Maybe they actually contribute to a sort of integration that is off the radar of people who think only middle class white males should be the butt of stereotype jokes?
I don't get offended by anything, but would class the jokes as not so much offensive as just crass, crude, and dumb. As the crowd apparently roared with laughter, that suggests to me something about the sort of people who were at the dinner. This puts the point well:Daily Telegraph said:
Steve Bennett, editor of Chortle (the UK comedy guide) website, says: “Nigel Farage is kind of right… and I can't believe I just said that! Censoring comedy is a slippery slope. But equally the rest of us can – and should – condemn comics for telling outdated gags. Even though I found Paul Eastwood's jokes more pathetic than offensive, it's not some dark forces of political correctness that are massing against small-minded comics like him, but a growing consensus that his sort of humour is tired, lazy, ignorant, bigoted and dated. So you can see why UKIP booked him.
Some of the the rib tickling jokes themselves -The Mirror said:
Referring to the Olympics, he told guests: “Poland did well. They took home bronze, silver, gold, lead, copper – anything they could get their hands on.”
To claps and cheers he went on: “Team Somalia – they did well, didn’t they? They had to apologise. Didn’t realise sailing and shooting were two different events.”
Eastwood then asked: “Any Midlands people here? Wonderful! My favourite accent is a Midlands accent.”
He then attempted an impression of an Asian voice. Eastwood chanted an Islamic call to prayer, mocking it as a “traditional Midlands folk song”.
Pathetic indeed. To claps and cheers he went on: “Team Somalia – they did well, didn’t they? They had to apologise. Didn’t realise sailing and shooting were two different events.”
Eastwood then asked: “Any Midlands people here? Wonderful! My favourite accent is a Midlands accent.”
He then attempted an impression of an Asian voice. Eastwood chanted an Islamic call to prayer, mocking it as a “traditional Midlands folk song”.
The point about the jokes and all the Bongo Bongo type quotes is that UKIP attracts people who have old fashioned and bigoted ideas about nationality, sexuality, and so forth. It may well attract others who have more modern viewpoints too, but the attempt of the PH UKIP supporters to suggest that UKIP is not a haven for people who have Alf Garnett mindsets seems to those of us not of the Faith to be at odds with reality.
This analysis of the "it's just a few gags" line from that well know leftist rag the Telegraph is interesting, I think:-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10679...
This analysis of the "it's just a few gags" line from that well know leftist rag the Telegraph is interesting, I think:-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10679...
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