NHS "Pay Rise" of 1% (real term pay cut)
Discussion
PF62 said:
Surprised the press hasn't picked up on the HMRC pay deal which was agreed recently - 13% over three years (3% for 20-21, then 5% and 5%).
https://arcunion.org.uk/hmrc-pay-ballot-2021/
https://www.pcs.org.uk/pcs-in-hm-revenue-and-custo...
You didn’t read that, did you? Basic grade civil servants had to have their pay increased before that pay award as national minimum wage went past their salary.https://arcunion.org.uk/hmrc-pay-ballot-2021/
https://www.pcs.org.uk/pcs-in-hm-revenue-and-custo...
youngsyr said:
Downward said:
NextSlidePlease said:
For those who worked on the "front line" they deserve a nice bonus for the physical but mostly mental torment they have been subjected to. You couldn't pay me enough to work on the covid and intensive care wards during this s
t. 1% for those folk is an insult for our so called heroes.
I piss and moan about having to wear a 3 ply mask going into Sainsburys, can you imagine having to be layered up with all that PPE all day and head out onto the ward for yet another gruelling shift of nothing but misery and death, being the one who sits and holds the hands of those people who pass away with none of their family round them. F that, It would have broken me very quickly.
Whatever about they having it cushy before this, the past year for a lot of NHS staff must have been pure hell.
I think this is the 1st sensible post here.t. 1% for those folk is an insult for our so called heroes.I piss and moan about having to wear a 3 ply mask going into Sainsburys, can you imagine having to be layered up with all that PPE all day and head out onto the ward for yet another gruelling shift of nothing but misery and death, being the one who sits and holds the hands of those people who pass away with none of their family round them. F that, It would have broken me very quickly.
Whatever about they having it cushy before this, the past year for a lot of NHS staff must have been pure hell.
Don’t forget many frontline staff have also been forced to move from their own roles to ITU and Covid wards.
And those that have stayed in hotels away from their families as to not pass anything on.
I think those deserve credit. Seeing all that death must be awful.
Still that’s what they chose ay ?
They've all risked their lives and 230 have even lost them to care for a huge number of people way beyond any natural disaster in living memory. 130,000 odd thousand people have been killed in case some need reminding.
And it's not just front line workers that have been affected, many have been pulled out of non-front line roles to plug the gaps.
Still, they should be thankful they've got a job and a small number had a cushy time and some people in the private sector have lost their jobs, so the NHS should be grateful for a weekly clap and no more, eh?!
Edited by youngsyr on Saturday 6th March 02:11
People die all the time from something.
They either do it in the wild (police, fire, ambulance), hospices, hospitals, or care homes.
Everyone will have had their fill of extra deaths this year... but it’s really not that any extra than usual is it?
It’s just been rearranged a bit. Possibly a lot of bad news in a few years with lots of terminal cancer cases that went undiagnosed... a surge in hospice deaths... will they get extra recognition for the stress?
Yes front line workers need recognition. It’s probably 1/10th of the NHS.
Those on covid19 wards need a decent bonus.
But to suggest 130,000 covid19 deaths has been like a massive natural disaster is a load of rubbish.
gts.981 said:
youngsyr said:
Murmurs from a couple of nursing unions that strike action could be a possibility following a 1% pay rise being announced and reported by BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56299663
Matt Hancock said the proposal was "what we think is affordable" given financial pressures caused by the Covid pandemic.
He added staff had been exempted from the wider freeze on public sector pay to reward their "incredible" work.
There's also talk of a "slow clap" for the government next Thursday.
Not a big fan of unions or strikes, but can't help but feel that a real-terms pay cut is a kick in the teeth for any NHS staff given what they've just been through.
And this government has zero credibility when it talks about affordability - remember the £1bn bung to the DUP to secure the supply and confidence agreement with the Tories?!
What have they ‘been through’?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56299663
Matt Hancock said the proposal was "what we think is affordable" given financial pressures caused by the Covid pandemic.
He added staff had been exempted from the wider freeze on public sector pay to reward their "incredible" work.
There's also talk of a "slow clap" for the government next Thursday.
Not a big fan of unions or strikes, but can't help but feel that a real-terms pay cut is a kick in the teeth for any NHS staff given what they've just been through.
And this government has zero credibility when it talks about affordability - remember the £1bn bung to the DUP to secure the supply and confidence agreement with the Tories?!
A very large percentage of NHS staff have been sat at home for months on full pay. Nice work if you can get it......
Sierra Nevada said:
What happened to the £350m a week brexit dividend? Surely that's enough to pay for the NHS pay rise many times over.
My partner works in the NHS on the ITU ward. She said it's living hell. Pure stress. Think the guys in this forum clearly do not understand the stress and hell nurses go through especially during this covid19 period.
Remember it's not just about pay now it's about retaining and hiring future nurses. I would say 5 percent pay rise is what is needed. I'm sure half you guys with good jobs wouldn't argue about that.
1 percent pay rise is just a pi** take for all the stress nurses and health care works have gone though. Remember without the NHS and the dedication of NHS workers more people would have died. I'm sure you would prefer to be looked up professionally by a nurse than to go into a hospital with no nurses and no treatment.
Also remember that it's the NHS who are rolling out the vaccine, so without them we would be stuffed. We would end up with private companies administering the vaccine and you know how they will end up. Matt Hancock will find out that his best mate runs a vaccine company or something.
Half the guys on pistionheads clearly have money, I'm sure they would be pissed if they worked like a dog and got told here is your 0.3 percent pay rise in real terms. I would personally reject that 0.3 percent real terms payrise as a piss take.
You have to remember that 0.3 percent of barely anything is nothing. They should be given a minimum of £5k I say. What you going to do with £1 a week exactly. Can barely buy a chocolate bar.
Let’s face it the PH massive are middle class wealthy blokes who despise people on lower pay wanting a pay rise. While they expect their annual bonus.My partner works in the NHS on the ITU ward. She said it's living hell. Pure stress. Think the guys in this forum clearly do not understand the stress and hell nurses go through especially during this covid19 period.
Remember it's not just about pay now it's about retaining and hiring future nurses. I would say 5 percent pay rise is what is needed. I'm sure half you guys with good jobs wouldn't argue about that.
1 percent pay rise is just a pi** take for all the stress nurses and health care works have gone though. Remember without the NHS and the dedication of NHS workers more people would have died. I'm sure you would prefer to be looked up professionally by a nurse than to go into a hospital with no nurses and no treatment.
Also remember that it's the NHS who are rolling out the vaccine, so without them we would be stuffed. We would end up with private companies administering the vaccine and you know how they will end up. Matt Hancock will find out that his best mate runs a vaccine company or something.
Half the guys on pistionheads clearly have money, I'm sure they would be pissed if they worked like a dog and got told here is your 0.3 percent pay rise in real terms. I would personally reject that 0.3 percent real terms payrise as a piss take.
You have to remember that 0.3 percent of barely anything is nothing. They should be given a minimum of £5k I say. What you going to do with £1 a week exactly. Can barely buy a chocolate bar.
My ex's small hospital was shut down because they couldn't social distance in the Victorian building, she basically sat on her arse for 9 months waving her NHS ID at every shop doorway she could, even wearing it around her neck presumably so people would stop her in the street and thank her for her service
She would proudly go to the front of the queue at supermarkets and when I said but you've not been to work she said they don't know that.
I however work in the private sector, I wasn't furloughed, I had to cover for people, I've pulled 15 hour days. I'm not asking for a pay rise or think I deserve one but I'm damn sure she doesn't either.
She would proudly go to the front of the queue at supermarkets and when I said but you've not been to work she said they don't know that.
I however work in the private sector, I wasn't furloughed, I had to cover for people, I've pulled 15 hour days. I'm not asking for a pay rise or think I deserve one but I'm damn sure she doesn't either.
Sheepshanks said:
PF62 said:
Surprised the press hasn't picked up on the HMRC pay deal which was agreed recently - 13% over three years (3% for 20-21, then 5% and 5%).
https://arcunion.org.uk/hmrc-pay-ballot-2021/
https://www.pcs.org.uk/pcs-in-hm-revenue-and-custo...
You didn’t read that, did you? Basic grade civil servants had to have their pay increased before that pay award as national minimum wage went past their salary.https://arcunion.org.uk/hmrc-pay-ballot-2021/
https://www.pcs.org.uk/pcs-in-hm-revenue-and-custo...
The HMRC 13% pay rise covers all grades from AA to G6, hence the links to both unions web pages.
Yes those at the bottom of the grades (AA and AO) needed a substantial pay rise so they would be receiving at least the national minimum wage.
However above those grades that was not an issue, and certainly isn't an issue for G6 on £65k to £75k who are included in this pay deal.
andy118run said:
Just my take on things, FWIW -
I'm a band 5 NHS staff nurse, working in mental health (for 15 + yrs now).
So not 'front line', though I have had to work with covid positive patients.
And we have had an outbreak among staff - probably 50pc or so of my colleagues have had covid.
But then so has the local chicken factory, supermarket etc, part of working in a pandemic I suppose.
Personally, I can't get myself wound up/offended by the 1pc pay offer - as mentioned, the rest of the public sector is getting nothing and many people in the country will be losing their jobs.
I'm thankful I kind of fell into this secure profession many years ago. I'm not a member of any nursing union, so 'striking' is out of the question, and I wouldn't even if I was a member.
Why am I not worried about pay?
-Well, I'm top of my band anyway so the basic pay is okay.
-I work mainly nights so my pay is pretty much always 'time and a third' (or more for Sundays/bank holidays).
-I can work as many 'bank' shifts as I want - just been sorting my 'bank' for June - any night shift I want is available - think I picked up 5 shifts in the end which will be worth about £1200 extra to me (after tax).
-But I have a wife who works, and child care responsibilities plus a life to live, so I can't be at work all the time.
-And of course, we've been locked down for the last year, nowhere much to spend our money, so all the 'bank' I've done plus plenty of my basic salary has been accumulating in my bank account.
-when my pay arrives at the end of this month, I know in the last financial year I will have been paid around £51k, and I really haven't stretched myself that much - probably averaging 2 or 3 extra shifts per month.
So when I read of outraged nurses struggling to make ends meet, having to use food banks etc.etc., demanding a fair wage, I really can't relate to that.
Anyway, I'll continue to watch this story with interest, see how it plays out, but I can't help but think there's a very vocal minority, easily offended, banging their drums, demanding 'fair' pay etc. While the majority of nurses like me are sitting here quite comfortably and very grateful for what we have.
I’m on a decent salary in the NHS. But hearing the story of colleagues getting redeployed to critical care after a life in other specialities. To deal with death and dying patients daily with annual leave cancelled I wouldn’t begrudge sacrificing a pay rise if those on the frontline got one. The cleaners the porters band 2’s mainly outsourced too to private companies.I'm a band 5 NHS staff nurse, working in mental health (for 15 + yrs now).
So not 'front line', though I have had to work with covid positive patients.
And we have had an outbreak among staff - probably 50pc or so of my colleagues have had covid.
But then so has the local chicken factory, supermarket etc, part of working in a pandemic I suppose.
Personally, I can't get myself wound up/offended by the 1pc pay offer - as mentioned, the rest of the public sector is getting nothing and many people in the country will be losing their jobs.
I'm thankful I kind of fell into this secure profession many years ago. I'm not a member of any nursing union, so 'striking' is out of the question, and I wouldn't even if I was a member.
Why am I not worried about pay?
-Well, I'm top of my band anyway so the basic pay is okay.
-I work mainly nights so my pay is pretty much always 'time and a third' (or more for Sundays/bank holidays).
-I can work as many 'bank' shifts as I want - just been sorting my 'bank' for June - any night shift I want is available - think I picked up 5 shifts in the end which will be worth about £1200 extra to me (after tax).
-But I have a wife who works, and child care responsibilities plus a life to live, so I can't be at work all the time.
-And of course, we've been locked down for the last year, nowhere much to spend our money, so all the 'bank' I've done plus plenty of my basic salary has been accumulating in my bank account.
-when my pay arrives at the end of this month, I know in the last financial year I will have been paid around £51k, and I really haven't stretched myself that much - probably averaging 2 or 3 extra shifts per month.
So when I read of outraged nurses struggling to make ends meet, having to use food banks etc.etc., demanding a fair wage, I really can't relate to that.
Anyway, I'll continue to watch this story with interest, see how it plays out, but I can't help but think there's a very vocal minority, easily offended, banging their drums, demanding 'fair' pay etc. While the majority of nurses like me are sitting here quite comfortably and very grateful for what we have.
The story of the 2 porters at Stoke hospital where they outsourced to Sodexo thus meaning they were not allowed the vaccine was disgraceful.
These porters were theatre porters and had raised the issue with the union. As private sector employees though they were not allowed the vaccine and died from covid.
Mr Whippy said:
I think you all need some perspective.
People die all the time from something.
They either do it in the wild (police, fire, ambulance), hospices, hospitals, or care homes.
Everyone will have had their fill of extra deaths this year... but it’s really not that any extra than usual is it?
It’s just been rearranged a bit. Possibly a lot of bad news in a few years with lots of terminal cancer cases that went undiagnosed... a surge in hospice deaths... will they get extra recognition for the stress?
Yes front line workers need recognition. It’s probably 1/10th of the NHS.
Those on covid19 wards need a decent bonus.
But to suggest 130,000 covid19 deaths has been like a massive natural disaster is a load of rubbish.
People die all the time from something.
They either do it in the wild (police, fire, ambulance), hospices, hospitals, or care homes.
Everyone will have had their fill of extra deaths this year... but it’s really not that any extra than usual is it?
It’s just been rearranged a bit. Possibly a lot of bad news in a few years with lots of terminal cancer cases that went undiagnosed... a surge in hospice deaths... will they get extra recognition for the stress?
Yes front line workers need recognition. It’s probably 1/10th of the NHS.
Those on covid19 wards need a decent bonus.
But to suggest 130,000 covid19 deaths has been like a massive natural disaster is a load of rubbish.
My wife worked in A&E through this and said it’s basically like a bad flu season with added safety measures. What has scared and stressed her most is the doom and gloom from the media and government suggesting medical staff are dying through exhaustion or Covid instadeath.
Let me put it this way. As soon as restrictions were lifted last year her colleagues were booking nights out and holidays to Spain. If it was that terrifying they’d be staying at home/work and minimising social activities.
As for pay rises I think the wage is good for a first job, a bit disappointing if you’ve had to retrain later in life. Rather than blanket pay rises I feel raising the minimum bands for certain areas of the NHS would be better so that skilled nurses in tougher roles are rewarded.
johnboy1975 said:
MrJuice said:
TVR1 said:
Yup.
I’m a driving instructor. I spent last year teaching key workers.
At least 5, a couple of Drs and Surgeons who were Covid+ during intensive lessons (4hours a day) to pass tests. (They didn’t know it at the time) I picked up nothing.
I’m not in the vulnerable age group. I wear glasses, I also smoke (apparently a good thing)
However, 1 of my pupils has gone on to write the protocols for how to deal with intubation and if/when necessary.
The other is a Cardiac surgeon.
Both have said that they couldn’t take up their posts if I didn’t help them pass. Driving was a necessary requirement of them moving to the Hospitals they’re now in. Hard to get in, if you’re in the arse end of beyond at 2am, waiting for a bus.
I’m now waiting for some support. Next grant for me is in 8 weeks.
I don’t want grants or handouts, I want to just get back to work.
Visited a food bank today.
I’ve £7 in the bank and at least 4 weeks to restart my business. No income since December.
I’ve a 77 year old Mum to look after who’s starting to dement and my 6 years old for 3.5 days a week.
I’ve no sympathy for those who are fully employed.
Genuinely staggered that doctors have gone that far in their career and applied for jobs out in the sticks without driving licences. I’m a driving instructor. I spent last year teaching key workers.
At least 5, a couple of Drs and Surgeons who were Covid+ during intensive lessons (4hours a day) to pass tests. (They didn’t know it at the time) I picked up nothing.
I’m not in the vulnerable age group. I wear glasses, I also smoke (apparently a good thing)
However, 1 of my pupils has gone on to write the protocols for how to deal with intubation and if/when necessary.
The other is a Cardiac surgeon.
Both have said that they couldn’t take up their posts if I didn’t help them pass. Driving was a necessary requirement of them moving to the Hospitals they’re now in. Hard to get in, if you’re in the arse end of beyond at 2am, waiting for a bus.
I’m now waiting for some support. Next grant for me is in 8 weeks.
I don’t want grants or handouts, I want to just get back to work.
Visited a food bank today.
I’ve £7 in the bank and at least 4 weeks to restart my business. No income since December.
I’ve a 77 year old Mum to look after who’s starting to dement and my 6 years old for 3.5 days a week.
I’ve no sympathy for those who are fully employed.
Edited by TVR1 on Friday 5th March 20:25
Sorry to hear about your financial situation. I hope things improve for you very soon.
Could I just ask, were those lessons / tests for doctors a special exemption, or where they still going ahead at the time more generally?
AFAIK your industry has been hammered with shutdowns (daughters lessons have been very off on off again, I cant recall the first time they stopped, but I'd guess at the start of LD1? And i don't think she'shad one since we went into tier 3 in November,
I know she hasn't had one since LD3. Is it April 12th slated for resumption?) ,
Don't you get the equivalent of furlough / small business assistance though - or are you new to the job? I thought if you showed earnings of 30k say, you got 80% (ish)
DVSA then decided no lessons in December.
Yes, I do receive SEISS but it’s based on net profit NOT earnings. The current grant covers Feb/March/April but won’t be paid until end of April at the earliest so Unlike the last grants rather than 3 months between, this will be 5. Last grant for Nov/Dec/Jan was paid in December.
To another poster. I do 35k miles a year, car is fully leased, insured etc. I also pay a weekly franchise fee. I use simple accounting so it works for me to just claim business miles, rather than keep every receipt etc. £1200 a month is ok but it still needs paying, at some point.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
And private sector pay rises are significantly more than that... Internationally 4.4 percent average. And within the UK most sectors are way above 1 percent.
My wife is NHS, she's been working 14-15 hour days for the last twelve months now, and also working at the weekend. This is far from unusaul in the NHS at moment. She's contracted for 37 hours.
Perhaps they should all just put in an overtime claim instead or work the hours they're paid for?
The general theme in the UK is that we're all in it together when there needs to some spending reductions, but in an economic boom the private sectors simply forgets that pact.
Your wife is contacted for 37 hours per week My wife is NHS, she's been working 14-15 hour days for the last twelve months now, and also working at the weekend. This is far from unusaul in the NHS at moment. She's contracted for 37 hours.
Perhaps they should all just put in an overtime claim instead or work the hours they're paid for?
The general theme in the UK is that we're all in it together when there needs to some spending reductions, but in an economic boom the private sectors simply forgets that pact.
If she is working 15 hour days each day then in her normal week she will do 38 hours over time every week
This overtime will be paid at either time and a third or time and a half
If off top of that she is also working her days off
From your comments.,
Either your wife is so senior that she is salaried staff and not hourly contracted in which case her wage will be commensurate with her position and responsibilities
Or she is a nurse ( or other ) paid an hourly rate .. and paid an enhanced rate for every hour over she does and including weekend and unsocial hours enhancements
You are stating that she is working the same number of hours ( or more ) extra than her contract
She WILL be earning a fortune ... and no she cannot be forced to work overtime she will have volunteered to do the extra hours and days and she will be paid for it
I’m assuming she was in the NHS in 2018 ?
The NHS a pay award in 2018 was between 6.5% and 29% for staff depending on band over three years
Many pay bands had their starting rates increased by around 22-25% in 2018
With the increase is starting salaries the average NHS worker received around 10% in 2018
From full fact :
Starting salaries for each of the job bands will rise by between 13% and 23% over the next three years. So, for instance, someone starting a job in Band 4 or 5 in 2020/21 will get paid 13% more than if they started that same job in 2017/18.
instead of staff moving up one pay point a year, there will only be a starting salary and a top salary, with one intermediary pay point in some bands.
However, staff in Bands 2-7 will reach the top pay point in fewer years, and for the job bands that have an intermediary pay point (reached after two years of experience), the salary jump will be higher than it would be after two years in the current pay structure.
Factoring in pay progression and increases in basic salary, 29% is the biggest possible increase in pay for someone over three years—it applies to someone currently on the starting salary in Band 7.
However for those staff earning over £100k the rise was capped at 4.5%
And now they want another 12% ?
Edited by Earthdweller on Saturday 6th March 09:13
PF62 said:
Surprised the press hasn't picked up on the HMRC pay deal which was agreed recently - 13% over three years (3% for 20-21, then 5% and 5%).
https://arcunion.org.uk/hmrc-pay-ballot-2021/
https://www.pcs.org.uk/pcs-in-hm-revenue-and-custo...
Different sectors have different issues.https://arcunion.org.uk/hmrc-pay-ballot-2021/
https://www.pcs.org.uk/pcs-in-hm-revenue-and-custo...
HM R&C have had a variety of issues over the years. Their call lines are usually undermanned in my experience and further up the seniority ladder many jump ship to accountancy practices.
TVR1 said:
Until 4th December, there wasn’t anything stopping us. The key workers could still have tests. Some continued, some didn’t. Lots of advice on Govmnt websites about working in cars.
DVSA then decided no lessons in December.
Yes, I do receive SEISS but it’s based on net profit NOT earnings. The current grant covers Feb/March/April but won’t be paid until end of April at the earliest so Unlike the last grants rather than 3 months between, this will be 5. Last grant for Nov/Dec/Jan was paid in December.
To another poster. I do 35k miles a year, car is fully leased, insured etc. I also pay a weekly franchise fee. I use simple accounting so it works for me to just claim business miles, rather than keep every receipt etc. £1200 a month is ok but it still needs paying, at some point.
The franchise fee, lease and insurance and maybe servicing are the fixed costs. Furlough or equivalent should cover the wages/profit aspect, even if you have to wait for it (obviously very painful to wait when you have £7 in your account). DVSA then decided no lessons in December.
Yes, I do receive SEISS but it’s based on net profit NOT earnings. The current grant covers Feb/March/April but won’t be paid until end of April at the earliest so Unlike the last grants rather than 3 months between, this will be 5. Last grant for Nov/Dec/Jan was paid in December.
To another poster. I do 35k miles a year, car is fully leased, insured etc. I also pay a weekly franchise fee. I use simple accounting so it works for me to just claim business miles, rather than keep every receipt etc. £1200 a month is ok but it still needs paying, at some point.
I'm surprised the fixed costs are that high.
Blue62 said:
Wherever you stand on the issue it’s hard to imagine a more ham fisted messaging campaign, for an administration that gorges itself on focus groups they seem to misjudge public opinion with alarming degree of regularity. Inept and out of touch.
I would sooner have "ham fisted messaging" than an unaffordable new spending commitment. If inflation picks up and the BOE is unable to continue monetarising the deficit and, at the same time, interest rates need to rise to try and constrain the rising inflation, then you will see real austerity.
Derek Smith said:
rossub said:
Nurses don’t do additional hours for nothing for example, they work shifts.
Is that a serious comment? If so, then you are wrong. In other words, you have posted something without knowing anything about the subject.
I seriously doubt there are vast numbers of the band 2-5 nurses that are doing hours for nothing. Those higher up at management level band 7+ generally do.
T6 vanman said:
As others have said
1) Not sure relevance with International pay average
2) We thank you wife's efforts .. It must be challenging to keep your marriage going whilst your wife gets up at 5am for a shift start at 6am and working 15 hours until 9pm so not getting home before 10pm 7 days a week, for the last 12 months ... This is what you wrote for 2
Really... I wrote that. I don't recall talking about shift start times, and when she leaves work but if you're saying I did, then I must have done.... But thanks for your facetious response. 1) Not sure relevance with International pay average
2) We thank you wife's efforts .. It must be challenging to keep your marriage going whilst your wife gets up at 5am for a shift start at 6am and working 15 hours until 9pm so not getting home before 10pm 7 days a week, for the last 12 months ... This is what you wrote for 2
As you're obviously so interested in her working pattern, she actually starts around 8am and finishes around 10 - 11pm. Weekends are not full time, but they do impact our family life - I'd estimate 3 hours per day on average.
She is fortunate though because she can mostly work from home. She's a board director so there is little value of her being in the office as she's no longer clinically facing.
Any more info needed?
I'll pass on your thanks though.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff