UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[steveT350C]

@mattholehouse: Brooks Newmark quitting parliament. Seat is Braintree, Essex. Prime Ukip country. ?

[Scuffers]

steveT350C said:

£1m???? Are you fffing mad???


Free for overseas visitors' ????



Oh......



http://www.avert.org/hiv-treatment-uk.htm



The question of who should be able to receive free HIV/AIDS treatment in the UK has been a much debated public health issue and on 1st October 2012 treatment was made free for all overseas visitors. 6

- See more at: http://www.avert.org/hiv-treatment-uk.htm#sthash.7...



Funnily enough, Farage has a point.

Think that pretty much reinforces the argument don't you think?

£18,000 a year Just in drugs, then add in the costs of NHS doctors, nurses, etc.... easy to get to the £1,000,000 quoted.


Then again, i am sure Mr fingerbob will still be shrieking how racist/unfair/etc it all is and how that nasty Mr farage is.

(Out of curiosity, just how much would you have to earn to pay enough tax to cover this?)

[powerstroke]

BGARK said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

we need more immigrants of working age to pay for the pensions of the baby-boomers when they retire

Please show us the maths for how using the fact that most immigrants are on minimum wage or less and contribute negligible tax as a percentage their earnings.

Same old st trotted out about migrants paying for the retired!!
No they will have fked off backhome long ago with their savings
Next the prick will be saying we could improve the economy by takeing in each others washing !!

[don4l]

TheRealFingers99 said:

steveT350C said:

Funnily enough, Farage has a point.

A pointy head, perhaps...........

What an excellent point you make.

You clearly like to portray yourself as being eloquent, intelligent and experienced. You are almost as good at these things as the ConservativeLibDem candidate in Clacton was at persuading people to vote for him/her.

BTW, has Breadvan surfaced yet? He is a man of honour, and I am sure that he will want to send off his £100 to charity... as any decent human being would want to do.

[TheRealFingers99]

Scuffers said:

(Out of curiosity, just how much would you have to earn to pay enough tax to cover this?)

The tax thing, I've no idea. But £18,000 per year is well within Farage's pay scale.

In contrast, the fly away cost for a Typhoon is said to be between 100 and 125 million USD, and will be obsolete within 25 years (if not already).

Makes the case, I think, for Open Source medicine.........

[Scuffers]

TheRealFingers99 said:

Scuffers said:

(Out of curiosity, just how much would you have to earn to pay enough tax to cover this?)

The tax thing, I've no idea. But £18,000 per year is well within Farage's pay scale.

In contrast, the fly away cost for a Typhoon is said to be between 100 and 125 million USD, and will be obsolete within 25 years (if not already).

Makes the case, I think, for Open Source medicine.........

Hows the weather on the planet zarg?

[steveT350C]

Scuffers said:

steveT350C said:

£1m???? Are you fffing mad???


Free for overseas visitors' ????



Oh......



http://www.avert.org/hiv-treatment-uk.htm



The question of who should be able to receive free HIV/AIDS treatment in the UK has been a much debated public health issue and on 1st October 2012 treatment was made free for all overseas visitors. 6

- See more at: http://www.avert.org/hiv-treatment-uk.htm#sthash.7...



Funnily enough, Farage has a point.

Think that pretty much reinforces the argument don't you think?

£18,000 a year Just in drugs, then add in the costs of NHS doctors, nurses, etc.... easy to get to the £1,000,000 quoted.


Then again, i am sure Mr fingerbob will still be shrieking how racist/unfair/etc it all is and how that nasty Mr farage is.

(Out of curiosity, just how much would you have to earn to pay enough tax to cover this?)

Scary numbers indeed.

I pay near on £30k a year in income tax, so I could cover 1.5 patients long term HIV treatment, year on year. I plan to retire at 60, so someone else will have to jump in.

[JustAnotherLogin]

Scuffers said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

So now we have some more information on UKIP's policies, shall we look at them?

• *SNIP!***

And in case no-one had noticed, we need more immigrants of working age to pay for the pensions of the baby-boomers when they retire

you have completely missed the point in what UKIP are suggesting.

May I suggest you take a look at the immigration requirements for the Australia?

apart from being a points based system, where your age, qualifications, skills, industry sector, etc are taken into account, they also bar people with long term medial issues (unless you have insurance/money to cover yourself)

so, effectively what UKIP are proposing is the same kind of system.

Now, back to AIDS, who wants to put a figure on just how much a years druggs course for your typical AIDS patient is?

now, unless said person is a real high flier with huge salary, whatever they pay in Tax and NI is NOT GOING TO COVER IT.

so, bleating on about people contributing in these cases is somewhat disingenuous to put it mildly.

then we get to the issues of people spreading it, like this guy http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1085446/HI...

this is not being xenophobic about aids, it;s being f**king sensible.

next people will suggest we are being racist not allowing migrants in with Ebola...

Interesting that you suggest I am missing the point of what UKIP are saying because I took from their website. Look

http://www.ukip.org/issues

Under "Managing our own borders".

The points system is listed against visas and time related work permits. Not immigration

So who is misunderstanding? You or the people who run UKIP's website?

Any why are you bleating on about AIDS and Ebola? I never mentioned any of those.

[TheRealFingers99]

Scuffers said:

Hows the weather on the planet zarg?

I'd not know. Are you a weather reporter as well as the resident sociopath, now?

[Scuffers]

JustAnotherLogin said:

Interesting that you suggest I am missing the point of what UKIP are saying because I took from their website. Look

http://www.ukip.org/issues

Under "Managing our own borders".

The points system is listed against visas and time related work permits. Not immigration

So who is misunderstanding? You or the people who run UKIP's website?

Any why are you bleating on about AIDS and Ebola? I never mentioned any of those.

Err what?

Did you really just say that?

Ukip are somewhat against immigration (uncontrolled) controlled would be things like work permits.

Or is that too hard a concept for you?

[CamMoreRon]

Scuffers said:

Now, back to AIDS, who wants to put a figure on just how much a years drugs course for your typical AIDS patient is?

now, unless said person is a real high flier with huge salary, whatever they pay in Tax and NI is NOT GOING TO COVER IT.

so, bleating on about people contributing in these cases is somewhat disingenuous to put it mildly.

then we get to the issues of people spreading it, like this guy http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1085446/HI...

this is not being xenophobic about aids, it;s being f**king sensible.

next people will suggest we are being racist not allowing migrants in with Ebola...

I think that's being reactionary. What percentage of immigrunts do you think carry on like that? Yeah that guy in that article was clearly a complete piece of st, but just because some hate-spewing "news" paper writes about it doesn't mean it's happening on any kind of scale. This was one guy.

Clearly I'm a bit late to this discussion.. but honestly the thought of UKIP coming to power really scares me. People seem to be focusing on immigration and that alone, when there is SO much more to running a country than controlling its borders!

Just like THIS GUY it seems to be a one track record and no other policy. They don't even have a manifesto FFS! How can anyone know what they're voting for? Are people just voting because they're "anti-establishment"? Because there's a lot of reasons why that isn't true and I'm sure I'm not the first poster to say so!

Edited by CamMoreRon on Saturday 11th October 19:26

[TheRealFingers99]

don4l said:

What an excellent point you make.

You clearly like to portray yourself as being eloquent, intelligent and experienced. You are almost as good at these things as the ConservativeLibDem candidate in Clacton was at persuading people to vote for him/her.

BTW, has Breadvan surfaced yet? He is a man of honour, and I am sure that he will want to send off his £100 to charity... as any decent human being would want to do.

Let's talk about it after the general election. We've seen ship of fools parties rise to the top in by elections only to sink in general elections before.

[Scuffers]

CamMoreRon said:

I think that's being reactionary. What percentage of immigrunts do you think carry on like that? Yeah that guy in that article was clearly a complete piece of st, but just because some hate-spewing "news" paper writes about it doesn't mean it's happening on any kind of scale. This was one guy.

Clearly I'm a bit late to this discussion.. but honestly the thought of UKIP coming to power really scares me. People seem to be focusing on immigration and that alone, when there is SO much more to running a country than controlling its borders!

Just like THIS GUY it seems to be a one track record and no other policy. They don't even have a manifesto FFS! How can anyone know what they're voting for? Are people just voting because they're "anti-establishment"? Because there's a lot of reasons why that isn't true and I'm sure I'm not the first poster to say so!

Edited by CamMoreRon on Saturday 11th October 19:26

yes you're right there's a lot more than immigration to running a country which is why if you look at ukip website you notice that they have more policies than just immigration however getting back to the subject yes i'm sure i could find a radio interview with just about any supporter of any party this a complete fruit loop what does that prove the country is full of fruit loops?

[JustAnotherLogin]

Scuffers said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

Interesting that you suggest I am missing the point of what UKIP are saying because I took from their website. Look

http://www.ukip.org/issues

Under "Managing our own borders".

The points system is listed against visas and time related work permits. Not immigration

So who is misunderstanding? You or the people who run UKIP's website?

Any why are you bleating on about AIDS and Ebola? I never mentioned any of those.

Err what?

Did you really just say that?

Ukip are somewhat against immigration (uncontrolled) controlled would be things like work permits.

Or is that too hard a concept for you?

Apologies that last post of my mine was rather poorly written.

But the website is not clear what relates to becoming a british citizen and thus permanent, and what is temporary work visas or visitors.

Nevertheless my case studies stand, if the website is to be believed, I suggest you have a look before you claim I am misunderstanding UKIP policy

[jogon]

CamMoreRon said:

I think that's being reactionary. What percentage of immigrunts do you think carry on like that? Yeah that guy in that article was clearly a complete piece of st, but just because some hate-spewing "news" paper writes about it doesn't mean it's happening on any kind of scale. This was one guy.

Clearly I'm a bit late to this discussion.. but honestly the thought of UKIP coming to power really scares me. People seem to be focusing on immigration and that alone, when there is SO much more to running a country than controlling its borders!

Just like THIS GUY it seems to be a one track record and no other policy. They don't even have a manifesto FFS! How can anyone know what they're voting for? Are people just voting because they're "anti-establishment"? Because there's a lot of reasons why that isn't true and I'm sure I'm not the first poster to say so!

Edited by CamMoreRon on Saturday 11th October 19:26

Take your head out on the sand or better still have a walk around a maternity ward near Heathrow or read the stats on how we had eradicated TB on out shores only for it to become prevalent once again.

[CamMoreRon]

jogon said:

Take your head out on the sand or better still have a walk around a maternity ward near Heathrow or read the stats on how we had eradicated TB on out shores only for it to become prevalent once again.

And what does that have to do with immigration?

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and...

- Explaining how rise in TB is partly due to drug-resistant strains developing.

Also, TB in immigrants peaks 2-5 years after arrival in the UK according to research stats, so they aren't bringing it here, they're catching it. They're catching it because the only places they can afford to live are densely packed and have low living standards. BUT.. IMPORTANTLY.. they are catching it off current UK residents.

However, I do agree that anyone with a deadly infections & contagious disease shouldn't be allowed in to the UK (without quarantine). I'm not so sure this is just a UKIP policy though!

[don4l]

TheRealFingers99 said:

don4l said:

What an excellent point you make.

You clearly like to portray yourself as being eloquent, intelligent and experienced. You are almost as good at these things as the ConservativeLibDem candidate in Clacton was at persuading people to vote for him/her.

BTW, has Breadvan surfaced yet? He is a man of honour, and I am sure that he will want to send off his £100 to charity... as any decent human being would want to do.

Let's talk about it after the general election. We've seen ship of fools parties rise to the top in by elections only to sink in general elections before.

We don't have to wait until next May. We could carry on the conversation after the next defection?

Which party do you think that the next defector will come from? My gut feel is that it will be a Labour MP.

[CamMoreRon]

Scuffers said:

yes you're right there's a lot more than immigration to running a country which is why if you look at ukip website you notice that they have more policies than just immigration however getting back to the subject yes i'm sure i could find a radio interview with just about any supporter of any party this a complete fruit loop what does that prove the country is full of fruit loops?

They do have a lot of words.. and you're right, you could find any uninformed half-wit who doesn't know what his party of choice actually stand for. Hell.. the majority of Labour voters still believe they're voting for a party that are an alternative to Conservative.

Some UKIP policies are actually quite sensible, I have to hand that to them. But some are just ludicrous, and unfortunately it is the ludicrous policies that will have the biggest impact to the country and the sensible policies will make no noticeable difference at all.

For example:

"UKIP will abolish the Department of Energy and Climate Change and scrap green subsidies."

- Incredibly damaging policy. And along with.. "There will be no new subsidies for wind farms and solar arrays." And.. "UKIP will abolish green taxes and charges in order to reduce fuel bills." Suggest that UKIP are climate change denialists. Now.. not only are fossil fuels a finite resource, so by definition we should not plan to rely on them indefinitely and work to plan & develop new methods of generating power that do not rely on them as a fuel, they are shown (via a HEAP of research and the vast majority of scientific opinion) to be damaging the environment.

"Repeal the Agency Workers Directive."

- Right. Ok. WHY? Because some people (Like myself, and the 2,000 other people I work with) depend on these regulations to be treated fairly at work. When I started 4 years ago I was on a graduate salary, and my housemate (who was younger, less experienced, and less qualified) was made permanent in his department after 3 months. He got 6-monthly salary increases, quarterly bonuses, a pension, sick pay, more holiday allowance, and I got squat. When the agency regs came in I was immediately bumped up to the same pay level, got the same holiday, and got the bonuses. I still don't have sick pay, but meh. Anyway.. the point is.. why should people like me be forced to work for (a LOT) less when we are doing the same job, just because we aren't "permanent"? I think the fact I worked there 4 years means I should be treated equally.. don't you?

So I don't understand the motivation behind that at all! I'm sure it has some tie back to immigration somehow..

Anyway.. I won't list any more just yet otherwise I'll be banging on all night. To summarise what I think of their "manifesto": it is a bunch of ideas that on the surface sound pretty legit.. especially to anyone who is prepared to take them at face value and look no further. However.. if you read in to them a little, it becomes apparent that they will not work - or not be positive, shall we say. Their manifesto is basically a bunch of punchy quotes from some drunk guy in the pub - you may well agree (albeit slightly apprehensively) with some of his rants at first, but fking hell.. you wouldn't want him coming back to your house.

[Scuffers]

For the record even if i wasn't a climate change denier as you put it, the current policy of subsidising windfarms solar and everything else i just plain economic suicide it wouldn't be so bad if they actually generateed electricity

[TheRealFingers99]

jogon said:

Take your head out on the sand or better still have a walk around a maternity ward near Heathrow or read the stats on how we had eradicated TB on out shores only for it to become prevalent once again.

Surely, the folk in a maternity ward near Heathrow reflect only the population in the catchment area of the maternity ward? Unless airlines are permitting the travel of heavily expectant women (generally they do not) who are then immediately transported to local maternity wards. Tin foil hat time, I think.

TB is hardly prevalent -- 7892 cases in a population of 64 million: 2003 levels. It's primarily a disease of poverty.