45th President of the United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 7)

[Gameface]

Glad they've seen sense, but it will inflame the hard of thinking.

[andy_s]

Seventy said:

This won’t go down well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/06/...

If anyone has dipped a toe in there then you’ll understand where I’m coming from.

It's also part of the bigger 'scandal' over at google who outlined policy for down-grading/deplatforming people based on political stance - Shapiro, Peterson and Prager were described as 'Nazi dogwhistlers''. Two of the 3 are Jews. All of them lost someone in the holocaust.
Questioning now in the Senate about it. Google deleted from Twitter and FB early references to it all.

Very off-topic now but interesting times.

[Byker28i]

Gameface said:

Byker28i said:

Gameface said:

Why the sarcasm? Perfectly reasonable comment.

If I was professional sporstman and I was being asked political questions of no relevance to my sport, I'd say no comment.

Why get involved in Trumps nonsense. It could backfire on her. Especially the way she swore.

Could've been handled better. Simple as that.

Yet it's ok for trump to interfere with sportsmen? It's not long since he was saying owners should sack those tacking a knee.

Come on Byker you know full well I'm not saying that.

You know my opinion of the man. He's a dick.

But why stoop to his level? People can make him look more of dick by rising above it.

Nancy Pelosi is a good example of that.

Yup, but answering the question in general, not as a criticism of you. I guess the reason is because he drags people down to his level, and then gets annoyed when he feels he's slighted because of that.

[Byker28i]

andy_s said:

Seventy said:

This won’t go down well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/06/...

If anyone has dipped a toe in there then you’ll understand where I’m coming from.

It's also part of the bigger 'scandal' over at google who outlined policy for down-grading/deplatforming people based on political stance - Shapiro, Peterson and Prager were described as 'Nazi dogwhistlers''. Two of the 3 are Jews. All of them lost someone in the holocaust.
Questioning now in the Senate about it. Google deleted from Twitter and FB early references to it all.

Very off-topic now but interesting times.

Lol. Several of the trumpettes we've seen on here were just repeating things from that Reddit forum, without bothering to check.

[andy_s]

Byker28i said:

andy_s said:

Seventy said:

This won’t go down well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/06/...

If anyone has dipped a toe in there then you’ll understand where I’m coming from.

It's also part of the bigger 'scandal' over at google who outlined policy for down-grading/deplatforming people based on political stance - Shapiro, Peterson and Prager were described as 'Nazi dogwhistlers''. Two of the 3 are Jews. All of them lost someone in the holocaust.
Questioning now in the Senate about it. Google deleted from Twitter and FB early references to it all.

Very off-topic now but interesting times.

Lol. Several of the trumpettes we've seen on here were just repeating things from that Reddit forum, without bothering to check.

For sure - delusion abounds - but where the line is drawn is seemingly not in the public square but in the hands of the politically minded. I'm not sure that's a healthy thing - speaking generally.

[Byker28i]

The House of Representatives voted 230-195 on Tuesday to approve $4.5 billion in aid for the growing crisis at the US southern border -- a vote that followed Democratic infighting over the package and a White House veto threat.

The senate have just voted it down
In the first series of votes on border funding, the Senate voted down the House-passed bill.

The bill failed in the senate 37-55.

After the vote, Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer spoke briefly on the floor and said he and most Democrats will vote for the bipartisan Senate compromise bill — which is expected to be voted on in a few minutes.

He also advocated for a conference committee with the House to merge the two chambers' bills, something GOP leaders say they don't want to do.


This is as trump tries to blame the democrats for the picture of the father and daughter who died.
The President called the trip to the United States “a very dangerous journey, a very, very dangerous journey,” and said “the asylum policy of the Democrats is responsible because they will not change the policy.”

Trump once again claimed that the Democrats want open borders — which is not something the mainstream Democratic party is advocating for — and said that “open borders mean people drowning in the rivers.”
https://us.cnn.com/us/live-news/immigration-us-mex...

[rscott]

Murph7355 said:

_dobbo_ said:

Murph7355 said:

Pictures like this, and emotive terms (“catastrophe", "concentration camp", "relative poverty" - often with "relative" dropped) are becoming the weapon of choice it seems. As you note, care for the individuals is secondary, it feels. It's point scoring.

Is it so hard to imagine that people are outraged that children are being separated from their parents, kept in squalid conditions and some are dying as a result? It must be point scoring I guess, because why would anyone care about that?

Of course it isn't.

But the outrage needs to be focused on the right thing to resolve anything and in these modern times of media (social or otherwise) hysteria I am far from convinced that is happening.

As an example, the link was posted in this thread about Trump. Is it solely at his door? Even mainly? I don't think it is... But then I don't seem to be quite as impacted by him as an individual as many seem to get.

The situation at the border (and in these camps) has worsened under Trump - the hard line policy he wanted introduced is responsible for the conditions in the detention centres.
Restricting the number who can apply for asylum (and closing the border at weekends in some places) also pushes people to take desperate risks to get in.

The father and child who drowned hadn't been refused entry - they couldn't get across the bridge as it was closed until the Monday, so they attempted to cross the river.
He took the child across then went back for his wife, but the child panicked and started to go in the water. Father tried to save them and they were both swept away.
(Was discussed on Radio 4 this evening).

Had they been discovered in the US illegally, they'd only have committed a Federal Misdemeanor, in the same category as not paying child support or transporting water hyacinthes without a permit.

[andy_s]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I understand that, however I'd also say that instead of 'a company' we're really talking about the company; it's more in the middle ground I think. Of course, Google can do what they want, they can re-write history in any way they want if they like, but I don't think it's particularly healthy when you consider their current market share.

When you think about it, doesn't this just give the Donald et al more things to point at to show 'how unfairly he is treated' - it's the sort of thing he distracts with and firms his bases resolve I'd have thought.

My main point was more about the other subjects however, another topic perhaps.

[Byker28i]

Christopher W. Cox, the deputy in charge of the NRA, has resigned.
He was the man who pumped huge amounts of the NRA money into trump
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-06-26...

[JonChalk]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

My interpretation of subreddit being quarantined was that it wasn't just / only because of the hate speech and incitement, but that the moderators were failing to moderate as well. Removing the down-vote button (part of the entire Reddit ethos) and re-titling the Report button to Deport. Instead of moderating they appear to have been enabling.

[Byker28i]

rscott said:

Murph7355 said:

_dobbo_ said:

Murph7355 said:

Pictures like this, and emotive terms (“catastrophe", "concentration camp", "relative poverty" - often with "relative" dropped) are becoming the weapon of choice it seems. As you note, care for the individuals is secondary, it feels. It's point scoring.

Is it so hard to imagine that people are outraged that children are being separated from their parents, kept in squalid conditions and some are dying as a result? It must be point scoring I guess, because why would anyone care about that?

Of course it isn't.

But the outrage needs to be focused on the right thing to resolve anything and in these modern times of media (social or otherwise) hysteria I am far from convinced that is happening.

As an example, the link was posted in this thread about Trump. Is it solely at his door? Even mainly? I don't think it is... But then I don't seem to be quite as impacted by him as an individual as many seem to get.

The situation at the border (and in these camps) has worsened under Trump - the hard line policy he wanted introduced is responsible for the conditions in the detention centres.
Restricting the number who can apply for asylum (and closing the border at weekends in some places) also pushes people to take desperate risks to get in.

The father and child who drowned hadn't been refused entry - they couldn't get across the bridge as it was closed until the Monday, so they attempted to cross the river.
He took the child across then went back for his wife, but the child panicked and started to go in the water. Father tried to save them and they were both swept away.
(Was discussed on Radio 4 this evening).

Had they been discovered in the US illegally, they'd only have committed a Federal Misdemeanor, in the same category as not paying child support or transporting water hyacinthes without a permit.

The whole concept of family separation was embraced and extended by teat trump as part of the zero tolerance policy to deter families from migrating to the US. Their metering policy is just another extension of that

[Byker28i]

Swamp news

Trump’s former FEMA head racked up $151,000 in unauthorized use of government vehicles. DHS required him to pay back $2,700 — just 2 percent of what he billed to taxpayers.

A Homeland Security Department inspector general probe last year found that Long spent $151,000 using government-funded Chevrolet Suburbans for routine weekend travel to his home in North Carolina. After POLITICO broke the story of the investigation in September, Long was forced to reimburse the expenses, which he agreed to do.

But a copy of Long’s personal check, obtained by the watchdog group American Oversight through a public records request, shows that the former administrator paid back only $2,716 — less than 2 percent of the total cost billed to taxpayers.

That’s because then-Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, who oversaw FEMA, did not require Long to reimburse the government fully for his misuse of an expensive program.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/26/brock-lo...

[andy_s]

JonChalk said:

My interpretation of subreddit being quarantined was that it wasn't just / only because of the hate speech and incitement, but that the moderators were failing to moderate as well. Removing the down-vote button (part of the entire Reddit ethos) and re-titling the Report button to Deport. Instead of moderating they appear to have been enabling.

Interesting.

[Byker28i]

trumps been on a phone interview on Fox Business Network, complainign about Mueller testifying and claiming he committed a crime, without any proof, or truth to the claim.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/450381...


Ted Lieu
@tedlieu
Who are the two people most scared of Mueller testifying? @realDonaldTrump and Bill Barr of @TheJusticeDept. The American people will see that @POTUS and Barr lied to them. The Mueller Report shows there was some collusion, much Russian interference & lots of Obstruction.

[andy_s]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think we're at cross-purposes. My comments were about Google, it had little if anything to do with Trump, just general politicing/media/control etc off the back of the Reddit post - which is now clearer.

[minimoog]

andy_s said:

doesn't this just give the Donald et al more things to point at to show 'how unfairly he is treated' - it's the sort of thing he distracts with and firms his bases resolve I'd have thought.

Maybe it will maybe it wont. The only sure thing is allowing them free rein to continue exploiting the platform unhindered will *definitely* firm their resolve.

Faced with that choice, well, there isn't one.

[Tartan Pixie]

Byker28i said:

This is what riled him
https://twitter.com/i/status/1143894189647847424

Cracker

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Gameface said:

Fascism? I think you're getting a bit excited.

It is a shame the word fascist has been overused to the point where it seems inappropriate to apply it to Trump who is very much a fascist as Mussolini would have understood the word.

I happen to have been thinking about this recently because I stumbled across a youtube channel called TIK History. Good channel if you're in to history documentaries. I will admit to being a touch apprehensive about clicking on the playlist marked 'National socialist ideology politics and economy' but am glad that I did, in particular the last video in the playlist explained a lot of things to me about Trump and his supporters that I hadn't understood: The real reason Hitler had to start ww2.

Zero Sum Economics:
It seems so obvious to me that economics is not zero sum that I never stopped to think what the world would look like through the eyes of someone who thinks like that, or how many are gripped by this incorrect view of economics. If economics is zero sum then there must always be losers as well as winners therefore 'they' must be losers in order for 'us' to be winners.

We see how prevalent this thinking is at election time when millions of people are seduced by the idea that 'they' will have more if the government spends £xxx less on 'the other' be that benefit claimants, schools or whatever. This is of course completely untrue because deficit spending is the act of creating money so that it circulates in the economy and produces GDP, cutting the wrong thing starves the economy of money, prevents circulation and lowers economic growth so you miss all your deficit reduction targets and 'they' end up paying just as much tax as before (see George Osborne for details).

I doubt people think about it deeply enough to understand themselves as zero sum economists but if that is your understanding of the world then you must have a group of people who are other, a group who must lose in order for you to win.

Racism:
If you subscribe to zero sum economics then racism becomes a logical conclusion. If your understanding of the world requires an other that you must win against then that other is an enemy. As soon as you start thinking about the other as an enemy to defeat then you dehumanize them, not because you are a nasty person but rather the opposite, as a kind person who cares about your in group enough to win for them then you must dehumanise the out group or you wouldn't be able to live with yourself for beating them down.

If you think it's ok to separate a child from their parent and make that child sleep on a concrete floor then you're a long way down the path of dehumanising the out group, in this case immigrants. Look at how trumpettes couch the immigration debate of they're taking our jobs, they're taking our land, they're taking our culture, etc, it's all zero sum thinking where because the immigrant is gaining something the native must equally be losing something.

National Socialism:
If Trump had the power to make himself a full autocratic leader then do you think he might order power stations to burn more coal so that white working class coal miners could have jobs? Do you think he might put a yes man in charge of the central bank in order to prop up his interventions in the free market? Do you think he might run a foreign policy that angers friend and foe alike because he believes his country to be powerful enough to engage in autarky so has no real need for allies?

If you answered yes to the above then welcome to national socialism. If the executive starts managing the economy beyond tax and spend then you have state control over the means of production (socialism) and if you do it for the betterment of a specific racial group such as white Americans then you have ethnic nationalism.

<><><>

Trump isn't as extreme as Hitler or Mussolini but the logical underpinnings are the same, as is the direction of travel.

I think one of the important things to understand is that to someone who has a zero sum view of the world Trump genuinely makes a lot of sense in a way the liberal capitalist world never will. The need to dominate others be that women, immigrants, or minorities is baked in to the zero sum operating system trumpettes are running on their wetware, because if they're not dominating then they're losing.

I think this is why we can't get any serious debate from trumpettes, because if you follow where Trump's world view leads then you end up with fascism, not the cartoon insult people throw around but literal fascism as it would have been understood in the 30's.

[Byker28i]

Tartan Pixie said:

If you think it's ok to separate a child from their parent and make that child sleep on a concrete floor then you're a long way down the path of dehumanising the out group, in this case immigrants. Look at how trumpettes couch the immigration debate of they're taking our jobs, they're taking our land, they're taking our culture, etc, it's all zero sum thinking where because the immigrant is gaining something the native must equally be losing something.

This was the whole summation of trumps election strategy in 2016, it's all somebody elses fault why you aren't doing as well as you should be, be that the Dems, the swamp in Washington, the political elite, or immigrants. (Despite the fact that like many other business trump also employed this cheap labour source).

If you look at the like of Stephen Miller driving the policy then it instantly has some appeal to trump and others in the GOP, try to make the US as unattractive as possible to those wishing to improve their lives. Yet this ignores why people are fleeing, why they are trying to get to the US, the fact it's illegal, that their policies have been found illegal in court, yet they still ignore them and continue with the policy.

The people moved out the Texas camp after protests were moved back in last night.

[Byker28i]

Giorgi Rtskhiladze, the Georgian-American businessman who pitched a plan in 2015 to build a Trump Tower Moscow met with the House Intel Committee on Tuesday for more than 8 hours to discuss the Moscow plans, interactions with the Trump Org. and more.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ex-trump-p...

The trump tower project that trump lied about, constantly.

This is the man the Mueller report said sent texts to Cohen in October 2016, just as all trumps sex allegations were peaking, saying “Stopped flow of tapes from Russia but not sure if there’s anything else. Just so you know.”

[Byker28i]

Dems debate last night, the moderator asked a question about the migrant father and child who died this week in the water trying to cross the border, Trump tweets "BORING!"

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-deb...