House of Commons shooting?

[SeeFive]

p1stonhead said:

On purpose by someone trying to murder people?

The sentiment seems to be that at the current rate of incidents, crossing the road offers more risk than ISIS in The UK, which frankly I am pleased about and ISIS should be viewed as such a threat IMHO.

That comment does not mean that I do not have sympathy for those impacted by these extremist clowns, or any other murderer of any faith, colour or persuasion, or even those accidentally killed or maimed on our streets. It also does not mean that the remote radicalisation of moron individuals for their cause is not something to be concerned about. I just see ISIS as pathetic threat to us in the U.K. in the grand scheme of things.

I think that is everything covered that I will be flamed for... maybe not, after all this is pistonheads

Edit: to remove original insult as per poster's reconsideration...

[anonymous-user]

mcdjl said:

Have you not noticed how i made it look like you could be? Have you managed to work out how to prove you're not a threat? Still think you have nothing to fear?

Yes and no. On a personal level, no. On a wider level yes, you get the same number of votes as me (possibly more if you live in somewhere with an elected mayor). If you want to vote for someone who thinks that locking up everyone who could be a terrorist is a good plan, they might get into power. If that happens then we really are in trouble.

I'm not involved in terrorism. I have nothing to fear

Crossflow Kid said:

What if someone else had their doubts about you? Lock you up, just to be sure?

See my answer above

[mcdjl]

bmw535i said:

mcdjl said:

Have you not noticed how i made it look like you could be? Have you managed to work out how to prove you're not a threat? Still think you have nothing to fear?

Yes and no. On a personal level, no. On a wider level yes, you get the same number of votes as me (possibly more if you live in somewhere with an elected mayor). If you want to vote for someone who thinks that locking up everyone who could be a terrorist is a good plan, they might get into power. If that happens then we really are in trouble.

I'm not involved in terrorism. I have nothing to fear

Crossflow Kid said:

What if someone else had their doubts about you? Lock you up, just to be sure?

See my answer above

So you don't have a car? You don't have any knives? You're don't dislike the police? You don't have a better than average threat awareness? You can't prove that you're not a threat?
So you could be a terrorist then? Well until we can be sure you're not, heres your orange jumpsuit.

[J4CKO]

I am sure certain folk almost welcome stuff like that for the "Told you So" aspect, like PHers like someone mentioning cars so they can dive in, so many seem to love a good rant about Muslims, its almost like "Oh good, a Muslim has done some bad stuff, today I can have a rant", and we know things arent all rosy, there are lots of issues but ffs, come on it needs to be a little more fine grained than "I dont like brown folk, they are bad. wish it was 1954 again"

I wouldn't want to be told I am no good because of what something someone I have never met had done, Raoul Moat, Fred West, Harold Shipman, Adolf, Katie Hopkins etc "they are all from your lot, wronguns the lot of you"

[Disastrous]

bmw535i said:

Disastrous said:

Irrelevant. They're hardly in a position to make rational decisions about security for all of us right now, are they?

Power is routinely abused. I still don't understand how you can look at places like, China say, and think "that looks great - I'm up for a bit of oppressive government!" just to offset an infinitesimally small personal risk.

Why would that be better to you?

So we wouldn't have had the recent terrorist incident.

I thought we had agreed to disagree on this?

Edited by bmw535i on Friday 24th March 11:59

I guess we had. I admit I still struggle to see your view though.

Do you honestly think that the attack on Wednesday was the absolute worst possible thing that could have happened thus avoiding it at all costs is warranted?

I mean, if we locked up absolutely everybody in the entire country there would be no crime, accidents or anything. There would also be no joy, fun etc. Would you consider that a worthwhile trade?

[p1stonhead]

SeeFive said:

p1stonhead said:

On purpose by someone trying to murder people?

The sentiment seems to be that at the current rate of incidents, crossing the road offers more risk than ISIS in The UK, which frankly I am pleased about and ISIS should be viewed as such a threat IMHO.

That comment does not mean that I do not have sympathy for those impacted by these extremist clowns, or any other murderer of any faith, colour or persuasion, or even those accidentally killed or maimed on our streets. It also does not mean that the remote radicalisation of moron individuals for their cause is not something to be concerned about. I just see ISIS as pathetic threat to us in the U.K. in the grand scheme of things.

I think that is everything covered that I will be flamed for... maybe not, after all this is pistonheads

Edit: to remove original insult as per poster's reconsideration...

To be clear, personally I am not bothered in the slightest nor scared/terrified by it and agree with you, its a non issue in my head in terms of potential risk.

But if this is now the weapon of choice, the risk is a lot higher in my mind than being blown up. Still not bothered, but the risk has surely gone up from just above zero, to very slightly higher than just above just above zero.

[J4CKO]

superkartracer said:

J4CKO said:

p1stonhead said:

J4CKO said:

rscott said:

J4CKO said:

jjlynn27 said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

I also doubt the Security services are going to divulge everything they had on him or his associates. He did not do this in isolation friends ,family members, work colleagues I cannot see how he did this without them having any knowledge of his plan

How much planning do you think is involved in moving people down with a car and stabbing someone before getting shot?
How could you possibly know if he did this 'in isolation'?

Some bizarre posts on here in desperation to try to justify black/white view of the world.

Yeah, I was thinking that, and it is a scary turn of events, ok, airliners exploding and being crashed into buildings is pretty fking terrifying but requires immense planning, resources and finding loopholes in security systems, most of which, as far as they can be have been mitigated against, but using any motorised vehicle and a knife, not exactly hard to get hold of and doesnt take much planning other than drive somewhere, mount the pavement, keep your foot down until shot/vehicle breaks etc.

The trouble is, a lot of folk arent very imaginative, it has now become a "Thing", a big 4WD is deadiler than a lot of guns, and a lot easier to get hold of, never mind trucks, buses or whatever.

The Hyundai isn't even that big a 4x4 - if he'd used a Range Rover or Merc ML they probably weigh best part of a tonne more so could have done considerably more damage..

Yeah, that is true, and what if they are "battle hardened" in various ways to keep going and shrug off damage, foam in the tyres, driver protected by steel plate, what if they go all "A" team ?

Look how much damage a lorry did in Nice. Using a large vehicle rather than saying to bomb a plane is is way easier, more effective, and scarier to the common person IMO.

Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 24th March 10:39

Its terrifying, everywhere is a potential terrorist attack

Nearly 100 people killed in London alone by cars/vans/lorries last year , and nearly 2000 people run down and killed in the uk in 2017 , terrifying stuff.

Is the thread not about terrorism ? I see your point but could say 100 people, what about East Timor, Syria and Diabetes ?

People will always get killed by motor vehicles, 100 is a lot of deaths but when you think of all the movements of people in the capital, it is perhaps surprising it isnt more, its bloody chaos, out of those 100 deaths, I suspect none were deliberate, like this, and that is what is worrying.

[anonymous-user]

mcdjl said:

So you don't have a car? You don't have any knives? You're don't dislike the police? You don't have a better than average threat awareness? You can't prove that you're not a threat?
So you could be a terrorist then? Well until we can be sure you're not, heres your orange jumpsuit.

I've not been involved with or investigated for terrorism. I'm not sure why you're trying to make me say I have or could be.

[Digga]

p1stonhead said:

To be clear, personally I am not bothered in the slightest nor scared/terrified by it and agree with you, its a non issue in my head in terms of potential risk.

But if this is now the weapon of choice, the risk is a lot higher in my mind than being blown up. Still not bothered, but the risk has surely gone up.

Maybe, but I for one am not prepared to consider it, even once. To live in fear is worse than dying.

[Andy 308GTB]

Tiggsy said:

Burwood said:

rscott said:

Andy 308GTB said:

andy-xr said:

Tiggsy said:

These sort of extreme donations seem a little strange to me, it's lovely that they happen....but I wonder - This was a family man in his 40's - fair to assume he had life cover and his family may be (financial) in a fine place (I know my family would be fine if I were dead and need nothing else). His wife may even be loaded already...or broke...we have no idea. Now she will get an extra half mil - people are asking about the other victims, but then there are other cops, killed at work, who get nothing because they are killed by the wrong person to generate any interest. Just seems a weird mix of peoples group morning desire (up there with turning your facebook pic into a flag - just so people get you don't like terrorists) and a grim lottery based on who kills you. I appreciate this would infringe the family's privacy...but I'd almost feel better if someone said "his family are now struggling with X?Y?Z" and I could dig deep.......as opposed to the current situation where people see £500k and think, I'll give £10 more. Perhaps the police federation should make it clear what their plans are after a certain point. Or if it gets up to £1m is that just that???? Once his family have cleared the mortgage and debts are they really going to want to buy stuff with that money to that level and not see it as a material reminder to their loved one that always falls short of replacing them?

It seems like a pretty straightforward objective to me. If people want to give money to the family of the police officer, that's the page to do it.

There may be other pages for other people who have laid down their life for others. But this one's for that police officer. It doesnt need reading into any more than that. It doesnt need questioning what they're going to do with the money, or whether they already have a life insurance policy or whether the family should do something with the money. That's for them to decide.

I wholly agree with the sentiment behind the fund but I don't think it's been particularly well thought out.

I'd have thought a more general fund for the families of all those killed & injured might be more appropriate.

agreed with that. The thing i'm really uncomfortable with is it could very easily run into 7 figures.

Indeed - I have no personal issue with it any more than I do when people moan about footballers wages! No of my money gets to them so I can only look on with interest - as I do here. I just find it fascinating that peoples desire to group grieve leads to someone ending up very wealthy through the terrible luck of loosing their loved one in a particular way. It was more a reflection on modern society than anything. I'm sure a fund for all police hurt in the line of duty would not attract such a response. Which is not right or wrong, simply interesting how modern times lend themselves to such a situation.

I'm all for helping the family of this Police Officer & agree with what you say.
I do fear the size of this fund could become a problem for the family in many ways.

The Metropolitan Police Federation created the Just Giving page:
"I am the Deputy General Secretary of the Metropolitan Police Federation, and a serving Police Officer. This page has been created by myself for the MPF in order to raise money for Keith's family. All contributions will be given to Keith's family."

I suspect that they didn't anticipate the reaction & as a result have painted themselves (and the family) into a corner.

[p1stonhead]

Digga said:

p1stonhead said:

To be clear, personally I am not bothered in the slightest nor scared/terrified by it and agree with you, its a non issue in my head in terms of potential risk.

But if this is now the weapon of choice, the risk is a lot higher in my mind than being blown up. Still not bothered, but the risk has surely gone up.

Maybe, but I for one am not prepared to consider it, even once. To live in fear is worse than dying.

Absolutely. I would never even contemplate that a nutter in a car could run me over on purpose no matter where I was.

[anonymous-user]

Disastrous said:

I guess we had. I admit I still struggle to see your view though.

Do you honestly think that the attack on Wednesday was the absolute worst possible thing that could have happened thus avoiding it at all costs is warranted?

I mean, if we locked up absolutely everybody in the entire country there would be no crime, accidents or anything. There would also be no joy, fun etc. Would you consider that a worthwhile trade?

1. I think it was a pretty bad thing to happen yes.

2. I don't recall advocating locking everybody up - just those involved in terrorism.

[Countdown]

bmw535i said:

I'm not involved in terrorism. I have nothing to fear

What about fear itself?

[p1stonhead]

bmw535i said:

Disastrous said:

I guess we had. I admit I still struggle to see your view though.

Do you honestly think that the attack on Wednesday was the absolute worst possible thing that could have happened thus avoiding it at all costs is warranted?

I mean, if we locked up absolutely everybody in the entire country there would be no crime, accidents or anything. There would also be no joy, fun etc. Would you consider that a worthwhile trade?

1. I think it was a pretty bad thing to happen yes.

2. I don't recall advocating locking everybody up - just those involved in terrorism.

No you said lock anyone up who hasnt been charged with anything but could be a potential one.

Which is anyone on the planet.

[anonymous-user]

p1stonhead said:

No you said lock anyone up who hasnt been charged with anything but could be a potential one.

Which is anyone on the planet.

Did I say that?

[Digga]

Andy 308GTB said:

Tiggsy said:

Burwood said:

rscott said:

Andy 308GTB said:

andy-xr said:

Tiggsy said:

These sort of extreme donations seem a little strange to me, it's lovely that they happen....but I wonder - This was a family man in his 40's - fair to assume he had life cover and his family may be (financial) in a fine place (I know my family would be fine if I were dead and need nothing else). His wife may even be loaded already...or broke...we have no idea. Now she will get an extra half mil - people are asking about the other victims, but then there are other cops, killed at work, who get nothing because they are killed by the wrong person to generate any interest. Just seems a weird mix of peoples group morning desire (up there with turning your facebook pic into a flag - just so people get you don't like terrorists) and a grim lottery based on who kills you. I appreciate this would infringe the family's privacy...but I'd almost feel better if someone said "his family are now struggling with X?Y?Z" and I could dig deep.......as opposed to the current situation where people see £500k and think, I'll give £10 more. Perhaps the police federation should make it clear what their plans are after a certain point. Or if it gets up to £1m is that just that???? Once his family have cleared the mortgage and debts are they really going to want to buy stuff with that money to that level and not see it as a material reminder to their loved one that always falls short of replacing them?

It seems like a pretty straightforward objective to me. If people want to give money to the family of the police officer, that's the page to do it.

There may be other pages for other people who have laid down their life for others. But this one's for that police officer. It doesnt need reading into any more than that. It doesnt need questioning what they're going to do with the money, or whether they already have a life insurance policy or whether the family should do something with the money. That's for them to decide.

I wholly agree with the sentiment behind the fund but I don't think it's been particularly well thought out.

I'd have thought a more general fund for the families of all those killed & injured might be more appropriate.

agreed with that. The thing i'm really uncomfortable with is it could very easily run into 7 figures.

Indeed - I have no personal issue with it any more than I do when people moan about footballers wages! No of my money gets to them so I can only look on with interest - as I do here. I just find it fascinating that peoples desire to group grieve leads to someone ending up very wealthy through the terrible luck of loosing their loved one in a particular way. It was more a reflection on modern society than anything. I'm sure a fund for all police hurt in the line of duty would not attract such a response. Which is not right or wrong, simply interesting how modern times lend themselves to such a situation.

I'm all for helping the family of this Police Officer & agree with what you say.
I do fear the size of this fund could become a problem for the family in many ways.

The Metropolitan Police Federation created the Just Giving page:
"I am the Deputy General Secretary of the Metropolitan Police Federation, and a serving Police Officer. This page has been created by myself for the MPF in order to raise money for Keith's family. All contributions will be given to Keith's family."

I suspect that they didn't anticipate the reaction & as a result have painted themselves (and the family) into a corner.

TBF, if/when the family deem funds to be surplus, they are surely at liberty to pledge the excess to similar worthy causes supporting other officers and their families?

[SeeFive]

p1stonhead said:

SeeFive said:

p1stonhead said:

On purpose by someone trying to murder people?

The sentiment seems to be that at the current rate of incidents, crossing the road offers more risk than ISIS in The UK, which frankly I am pleased about and ISIS should be viewed as such a threat IMHO.

That comment does not mean that I do not have sympathy for those impacted by these extremist clowns, or any other murderer of any faith, colour or persuasion, or even those accidentally killed or maimed on our streets. It also does not mean that the remote radicalisation of moron individuals for their cause is not something to be concerned about. I just see ISIS as pathetic threat to us in the U.K. in the grand scheme of things.

I think that is everything covered that I will be flamed for... maybe not, after all this is pistonheads

Edit: to remove original insult as per poster's reconsideration...

To be clear, personally I am not bothered in the slightest nor scared/terrified by it and agree with you, its a non issue in my head in terms of potential risk.

But if this is now the weapon of choice, the risk is a lot higher in my mind than being blown up. Still not bothered, but the risk has surely gone up from just above zero, to very slightly higher than just above just above zero.

Agreed. It does make the opportunity to execute an event more accessible even to the hard of thinking who could not build an IED. But like you, it still won't stop me from going about my normal business or treating all people as equals just because of some cowardly thugs in some sthole land preying on the weak and influencable in (given some quite unbelievable posts on here - slightly) more civilised countries.

[anonymous-user]

Countdown said:

What about fear itself?

No I don't fear fear

[NerveAgent]

I think you guys are being pretty harsh on camels.

[Tiggsy]

Andy 308GTB said:

I suspect that they didn't anticipate the reaction & as a result have painted themselves (and the family) into a corner.

I'd agree - talking to my other half she was very uncomfy with the idea that if I was involved in a high profile death that she gets handed think end of a million pound! "so I get your life assurance and pay off all the debts.....then what is the £1m for?" The gut reaction is to give it to charity but human nature would make that very hard. I can imagine there are all sorts of emotional issues that come from having a life turn around for the better, financially, as the result of something so bad. Be interesting to see how it develops.