Trans woman convicted rapist sent to female prison

[Rufus Stone]

Jenny Tailor said:

Update from Auntie...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-wes...

He's clearly a nasty piece of work and the longer he is locked up the better. I don't believe for a second he is trans.

[Rufus Stone]

Only on PH.

A thread about a convicted trans woman double rapist, turns into an argument about trans people being more victimised than non trans people.

[Rufus Stone]

ZedLeg said:

My point is that when I read a story that light on detail, it rings alarm bells regarding it's veracity.

You don't believe her?

[Rufus Stone]

BikeBikeBIke said:

...and Nicola Sturgeon decides she's a TERF after all:

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/162010793436...

A step in the right direction.

[Rufus Stone]

I like Julia. She says it like it is.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11696591/...

[Rufus Stone]

HM-2 said:

I think screeching "think of the children" and talking about how women "need protecting" from trans people is demeaning nonsense.

Protecting from potential rapists, trans or not. All biological pre surgery males should be excluded from female only spaces.

[Rufus Stone]

ZedLeg said:

The difference is that most rules like that are based on evidence that it improves something. The outcry about trans women is based on prejudice and scare mongering.

Because a trans woman would never rape anyone no doubt.

[Rufus Stone]

HM-2 said:

It doesn't "prove your point" though, because the evidence of risk is not sufficient to justify the demand for "protection". If there was actual evidence supporting the purported "risk of harm" stemming from the law being what it is, then you might have an argument here. But you don't have any evidence to support the risk of harm you're claiming justifies legislating on.

Is a trans woman convicted double rapist not sufficient evidence for you?

[Rufus Stone]

ZedLeg said:

No 1 person who's probably faking to try and take advantage of the system isn't enough evidence to make a change that would affect thousands of people.

It's so difficult to tell who is fake and who is not these days, don't you find?

[Rufus Stone]

8.4L 154 said:

Its not even evidence of substantive risk of harm to women in prisons. She was never in contact with other women, she was risk assessed and transferred from segregation into the male estate

He was transferred following a political intervention.

[Rufus Stone]

HM-2 said:

Well nobody whose claiming it's an issue seems to be able to produce any evidence to demonstrate how much of an "issue" it actually is. Which is sort of the minimum you need to know before making informed policy on it, surely?

Will this do?

https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-1...

[Rufus Stone]

E63eeeeee... said:

Only if you now explain how whatever your proposal around toilets is would have prevented or mitigated this situation.

Strange logic, something is only an issue if you can do something to stop it.

[Rufus Stone]

ZedLeg said:

No one should be hanging around changing rooms watching other people's children get changed. Do you stare at boys when you're changing?

People keep pulling out these motoring analogies that don't really work. Studies have shown that motorways are safer and more efficient at higher speeds.

We cant stop domestic violence either, should we abandon all laws against it then?

[Rufus Stone]

E63eeeeee... said:

Something is only an issue if it is specifically an issue, and not in fact a different issue. A trans person assaulting a kid in a public toilet is an issue about assault, not about trans people, as far as I can see.

Related, if not entirely the same, is the fact that the initial story is really an issue about the fact that we don't trust our prison system to be able to protect prisoners from each other, rather than an issue about trans people. Of course all the trans noise allows the governments to avoid that conversation.

Certainly the test for whether there should be some kind of legal intervention has to include whether it will be effective and can be enforced, as well as the proportionality point raised earlier.

The whole toilet thing is so obviously disproportionate, unenforceable and futile that it's hard to see its proponents as anything other than disingenuous. Medicine, prisons, sports obviously need and can sensibly have specific rules and arrangements. Toilets is just fking stupid.

HM wanted evidence that trans women have committed crimes in female toilets, and that's what I provided.

[Rufus Stone]

InitialDave said:

How would they know they're there, or that they're trans?

I really have no idea.



From what I've seen, most trans women aren't that convincing.

[Rufus Stone]

chrispmartha said:

How would you know you’ve seen a ‘convincing’ Trans Woman.

And also how should a woman look to you?

Personal preference I know, but mine is the absence of a cock and balls.

[Rufus Stone]

chrispmartha said:

People generally don't go round with their genitals on show

If in doubt, there's always the Crocodile Dundee test.

[Rufus Stone]

chrispmartha said:

No one’s dismissing anything, were just pointing out it isn’t representative of wider opinion.

What is then?

[Rufus Stone]

E63eeeeee... said:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/articles-repor...

As ever, sucked in to googling something to find that the answer is utterly unsurprising. Women are split on trans women using the ladies, but net in favour by 10%. It's a bit past half way down the page.

Feel free to explain how MumsNet's polling methodology is more robust if you like.

Oh, yougov.

[Rufus Stone]

This is interesting, and relevant to the thread.

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/1...

Comparisons of official MOJ statistics from March / April 2019 (most recent
official count of transgender prisoners):
76 sex offenders out of 129 transwomen = 58.9%
125 sex offenders out of 3812 women in prison = 3.3%
13234 sex offenders out of 78781 men in prison =16.8%