**** boiling Orange Order
Discussion
ApexJimi said:
Eric Mc said:
Why don't you surprise them by standing on the side of the road and applauding and cheering them.
a) they would be amazed
b) you would have the psychological upper hand
c) maybe it might actually improve relations
The last thing these pillocks need is more encouragement.a) they would be amazed
b) you would have the psychological upper hand
c) maybe it might actually improve relations
Being Scottish myself, and having grown up in a town where affiliation to the Orange Order was rife, I can tell you now, most of the people in the bands had no ideological reason to be there, they had no real historical links to the order - they are just a bunch of low life dunderheids who have adopted "the cause".
tbh,to me it just seems like the op is a real true bigotted person. He tends to forget that the orangemen have marched for hundreds of years, they were marching the very same routes that they march these days except when rerouted by the parades commision. the op would if he got out of his biggoted shell see that the trouble that is happening is not the orangemen but the so called thugs in the community. at the end of the day its a right to walk the queens highway,and when a orginization has marched that queens highway for more years than the op has been born then i would say the problem is the op's chose of area to live in.
sportka1 said:
He tends to forget that the orangemen have marched for hundreds of years,
Isn't that just the problem though? History. Just because someone has done something for a long time doesn't make it right. We stopped the slave trade after all and that had been quite successful for a fair few years. They are celebrating the victory of William Of Orange, aren't they? But the country's history goes back further than that so why draw a line in the sand there?? It's like worrying about immigration. Who's British? Pre Viking, pre-1066? EVERYONE needs to grow up a bit and be less confrontational....it won't happen though.
Isn't that just the problem though? History. Just because someone has done something for a long time doesn't make it right. We stopped the slave trade after all and that had been quite successful for a fair few years.
ahhh history should be forgotten then? so we should forget about marching to commenorate the likes of the fallen from the world wars for example? sometimes that is the problem, our history should never be forgotten or should it be taken for granted.
oh i should maybe point out at this stage that i am NOT a orangeman or do i enjoy watching them march.
ahhh history should be forgotten then? so we should forget about marching to commenorate the likes of the fallen from the world wars for example? sometimes that is the problem, our history should never be forgotten or should it be taken for granted.
oh i should maybe point out at this stage that i am NOT a orangeman or do i enjoy watching them march.
I buy a poppy and give to charities to help those who suffered in World Wars. I don't feel the need to join an 'Order' or march about. It would be nice to think that in 'remembering' old wars it might prevent new ones, but it doesn't, so I fail to see how it helps anything. It just keeps the old rifts simmering nicely.
I'd love to believe that Orangemen don't WANT to stir up the other lot, but somehow I suspect otherwise....
I'd love to believe that Orangemen don't WANT to stir up the other lot, but somehow I suspect otherwise....
My limited understanding of this is that the Orange Order marches are to symbolise the military victory of Protestants over Catholics in Ireland. If that's the case then it's not something that's going to encourage peace between the communities.
Either it should be banned or kept to wholly-Protestant areas.
Either it should be banned or kept to wholly-Protestant areas.
it seems that the media has done a right hachet job towards the orange order tbh, lets get the facts stright a bit
1- its not the orange order causeing all the trouble,its the street thugs maskerading under a loyalist banner to go out and see rioting as a 'fun thing to do off a nite'
2- the orange parades are legaly held marchs through what are prod areas for the most part, granted there are a few that go through what are MIXED areas,but those areas used to be prod areas before the catolics moved in and started to clear the areas for themselfs.
3-the so called protests for the catholics are generaly from brought in people from other areas that do not live even close to the areas(rent a mob basicly)
4- the orange order is a religion based order,a bit like the masions only with a few parades.
im not saying for 1 min that there is not a lot of thugs in the order,but with over 100.000 members you will always get your fair share of d
heads.
now the main problem is that the orange order to a lot of prods are the last baston of prodestantism in the north, the last newlabour lot basicly sold prods down the river as a lot of working class prods see it,eg terrorists sitting in stormount,50/50 police recruitment (50% catholic/50% everyone else) even though n.ireland has a 55%+ majority of prods. we dont have a real democratic process of goverment over here and that together with the numbskulls who like to go out of a nite and cause the sort of trouble that gives this place a bad name is clouding the rest of the population on both sides that just want to get on with our lives.
n.ireland is a class place if truth be told,and the plonkers on both sides are more than happy to keep the old ways going. the likes of the UVF and the dissentists make a shed load of cash while there is trouble,they use it as a tool to keep 'their areas' under control and in fear.
just maybe people will acually look up about these things and not run their mouths saying downright lies and half truths about something they do not know anything about.
1- its not the orange order causeing all the trouble,its the street thugs maskerading under a loyalist banner to go out and see rioting as a 'fun thing to do off a nite'
2- the orange parades are legaly held marchs through what are prod areas for the most part, granted there are a few that go through what are MIXED areas,but those areas used to be prod areas before the catolics moved in and started to clear the areas for themselfs.
3-the so called protests for the catholics are generaly from brought in people from other areas that do not live even close to the areas(rent a mob basicly)
4- the orange order is a religion based order,a bit like the masions only with a few parades.
im not saying for 1 min that there is not a lot of thugs in the order,but with over 100.000 members you will always get your fair share of d
heads.now the main problem is that the orange order to a lot of prods are the last baston of prodestantism in the north, the last newlabour lot basicly sold prods down the river as a lot of working class prods see it,eg terrorists sitting in stormount,50/50 police recruitment (50% catholic/50% everyone else) even though n.ireland has a 55%+ majority of prods. we dont have a real democratic process of goverment over here and that together with the numbskulls who like to go out of a nite and cause the sort of trouble that gives this place a bad name is clouding the rest of the population on both sides that just want to get on with our lives.
n.ireland is a class place if truth be told,and the plonkers on both sides are more than happy to keep the old ways going. the likes of the UVF and the dissentists make a shed load of cash while there is trouble,they use it as a tool to keep 'their areas' under control and in fear.
just maybe people will acually look up about these things and not run their mouths saying downright lies and half truths about something they do not know anything about.
i'm very much with th OP on this.
i live on a main road and these idiots march along it, half a dozen times a year, causing huge traffic congestion. most of the time it's one lodge with maybe 2 dozen members, a few dozen more followers and a police escort usually consisting of around 10 PCs, a transit and a car or two. the cue of traffic behind is ridiculous, mostly buses. i once counted 16 stuck behind one band.
there's a chapel a couple of hundred yards away, they're not allowed to play as they pass it, only use a drum to keep pace. the drum of choice is a large bass drum which gets absolutely leathered, far more so than before or after the chapel.
it's purely one relgion lording it over another and i see no reason why this should be allowed in this day and age
i live on a main road and these idiots march along it, half a dozen times a year, causing huge traffic congestion. most of the time it's one lodge with maybe 2 dozen members, a few dozen more followers and a police escort usually consisting of around 10 PCs, a transit and a car or two. the cue of traffic behind is ridiculous, mostly buses. i once counted 16 stuck behind one band.
there's a chapel a couple of hundred yards away, they're not allowed to play as they pass it, only use a drum to keep pace. the drum of choice is a large bass drum which gets absolutely leathered, far more so than before or after the chapel.
it's purely one relgion lording it over another and i see no reason why this should be allowed in this day and age
sportka1 said:
it seems that the media has done a right hachet job towards the orange order tbh, lets get the facts stright a bit
1- its not the orange order causeing all the trouble,its the street thugs maskerading under a loyalist banner to go out and see rioting as a 'fun thing to do off a nite'
2- the orange parades are legaly held marchs through what are prod areas for the most part, granted there are a few that go through what are MIXED areas,but those areas used to be prod areas before the catolics moved in and started to clear the areas for themselfs.
3-the so called protests for the catholics are generaly from brought in people from other areas that do not live even close to the areas(rent a mob basicly)
4- the orange order is a religion based order,a bit like the masions only with a few parades.
im not saying for 1 min that there is not a lot of thugs in the order,but with over 100.000 members you will always get your fair share of dheads.
now the main problem is that the orange order to a lot of prods are the last baston of prodestantism in the north, the last newlabour lot basicly sold prods down the river as a lot of working class prods see it,eg terrorists sitting in stormount,50/50 police recruitment (50% catholic/50% everyone else) even though n.ireland has a 55%+ majority of prods. we dont have a real democratic process of goverment over here and that together with the numbskulls who like to go out of a nite and cause the sort of trouble that gives this place a bad name is clouding the rest of the population on both sides that just want to get on with our lives.
n.ireland is a class place if truth be told,and the plonkers on both sides are more than happy to keep the old ways going. the likes of the UVF and the dissentists make a shed load of cash while there is trouble,they use it as a tool to keep 'their areas' under control and in fear.
just maybe people will acually look up about these things and not run their mouths saying downright lies and half truths about something they do not know anything about.
B*ll*cks.1- its not the orange order causeing all the trouble,its the street thugs maskerading under a loyalist banner to go out and see rioting as a 'fun thing to do off a nite'
2- the orange parades are legaly held marchs through what are prod areas for the most part, granted there are a few that go through what are MIXED areas,but those areas used to be prod areas before the catolics moved in and started to clear the areas for themselfs.
3-the so called protests for the catholics are generaly from brought in people from other areas that do not live even close to the areas(rent a mob basicly)
4- the orange order is a religion based order,a bit like the masions only with a few parades.
im not saying for 1 min that there is not a lot of thugs in the order,but with over 100.000 members you will always get your fair share of d
heads.now the main problem is that the orange order to a lot of prods are the last baston of prodestantism in the north, the last newlabour lot basicly sold prods down the river as a lot of working class prods see it,eg terrorists sitting in stormount,50/50 police recruitment (50% catholic/50% everyone else) even though n.ireland has a 55%+ majority of prods. we dont have a real democratic process of goverment over here and that together with the numbskulls who like to go out of a nite and cause the sort of trouble that gives this place a bad name is clouding the rest of the population on both sides that just want to get on with our lives.
n.ireland is a class place if truth be told,and the plonkers on both sides are more than happy to keep the old ways going. the likes of the UVF and the dissentists make a shed load of cash while there is trouble,they use it as a tool to keep 'their areas' under control and in fear.
just maybe people will acually look up about these things and not run their mouths saying downright lies and half truths about something they do not know anything about.
The Orange order and all scumbags who preach hatred under the excuse of religion or "tradition" should have their ability to procreate removed with bricks and their assets frozen and distributed to people who aren't bigoted t*sspots.
Marching increases the likelyhood of trouble between the two "sides", it does not reduce it. No matter what you might think.
Any organisation that seperates people on the basis of which version of the same religion they follow is a problem, not a solution.
sportka1 said:
it seems that the media has done a right hachet job towards the orange order tbh, lets get the facts stright a bit
1- its not the orange order causeing all the trouble,its the street thugs maskerading under a loyalist banner to go out and see rioting as a 'fun thing to do off a nite'
2- the orange parades are legaly held marchs through what are prod areas for the most part, granted there are a few that go through what are MIXED areas,but those areas used to be prod areas before the catolics moved in and started to clear the areas for themselfs.
3-the so called protests for the catholics are generaly from brought in people from other areas that do not live even close to the areas(rent a mob basicly)
4- the orange order is a religion based order,a bit like the masions only with a few parades.
im not saying for 1 min that there is not a lot of thugs in the order,but with over 100.000 members you will always get your fair share of dheads.
now the main problem is that the orange order to a lot of prods are the last baston of prodestantism in the north, the last newlabour lot basicly sold prods down the river as a lot of working class prods see it,eg terrorists sitting in stormount,50/50 police recruitment (50% catholic/50% everyone else) even though n.ireland has a 55%+ majority of prods. we dont have a real democratic process of goverment over here and that together with the numbskulls who like to go out of a nite and cause the sort of trouble that gives this place a bad name is clouding the rest of the population on both sides that just want to get on with our lives.
n.ireland is a class place if truth be told,and the plonkers on both sides are more than happy to keep the old ways going. the likes of the UVF and the dissentists make a shed load of cash while there is trouble,they use it as a tool to keep 'their areas' under control and in fear.
just maybe people will acually look up about these things and not run their mouths saying downright lies and half truths about something they do not know anything about.
Ever thought of joining the rest of us in the 21st century. As for not understanding the Orange Order, I can assure you I do. As mentioned, I was brought up in a town that treated it like some kind of supreme church. The members of this organization, where to a man bigoted in the extreme, the hatred they pour on the catholic faith is without boundaries (not saying the other side is much better, it does not make it right though) and they celebrated every catholic death that came out of the troubles.1- its not the orange order causeing all the trouble,its the street thugs maskerading under a loyalist banner to go out and see rioting as a 'fun thing to do off a nite'
2- the orange parades are legaly held marchs through what are prod areas for the most part, granted there are a few that go through what are MIXED areas,but those areas used to be prod areas before the catolics moved in and started to clear the areas for themselfs.
3-the so called protests for the catholics are generaly from brought in people from other areas that do not live even close to the areas(rent a mob basicly)
4- the orange order is a religion based order,a bit like the masions only with a few parades.
im not saying for 1 min that there is not a lot of thugs in the order,but with over 100.000 members you will always get your fair share of d
heads.now the main problem is that the orange order to a lot of prods are the last baston of prodestantism in the north, the last newlabour lot basicly sold prods down the river as a lot of working class prods see it,eg terrorists sitting in stormount,50/50 police recruitment (50% catholic/50% everyone else) even though n.ireland has a 55%+ majority of prods. we dont have a real democratic process of goverment over here and that together with the numbskulls who like to go out of a nite and cause the sort of trouble that gives this place a bad name is clouding the rest of the population on both sides that just want to get on with our lives.
n.ireland is a class place if truth be told,and the plonkers on both sides are more than happy to keep the old ways going. the likes of the UVF and the dissentists make a shed load of cash while there is trouble,they use it as a tool to keep 'their areas' under control and in fear.
just maybe people will acually look up about these things and not run their mouths saying downright lies and half truths about something they do not know anything about.
Saying this is a worthy and historical order and implying it deserves our respect is a nonsense, it promotes division based on religion and your post seems to imply that is the way you like it, to suggest political power should be divided up based on the prominence of catholic via protestant is quite frankly extremely worrying, politics is and should be non denominational in this country and the sooner Ireland gets to this basis (no time soon unfortunately) the better it will be as a nation.
The whole tone of your reply in fact (and the atrocious spelling) indicates that you are aligned with this organisation and support its views, your contempt for catholics comes across very clearly. How in this day and age you can hate a people for their religion is quite frankly beyond me. We pour scorn on the Muslim extremists and call for their eradication based on the extreme and hate filled views they put across, perhaps we should try and solve some of our closer to home views first.
King Billy died a 500 years ago, his greatest achievement was his stand against the french at the height of their power, he was though Dutch and we where in effect under Dutch rule. It worked a little better than the Stuarts rule though and led to a stable period. The Orange Order that hail him today though do so out of bigoted hatred that should have died a long long time ago.
What I don't understand is why its still allowed - with all the laws about inciting racial hatred etc and the banning of singing songs at football, why are the same songs allowed to be sung marching through Glasgow's main streets?
And the same applies to sectarian schools - lets not fk about, if you want to get rid of sectarianism in the west of Scotland you need to ban the walks/marches as well as the schools, but it'll never happen as too many people with vested interests and too many politicians afraid of the hard fight against them.
And the same applies to sectarian schools - lets not f
k about, if you want to get rid of sectarianism in the west of Scotland you need to ban the walks/marches as well as the schools, but it'll never happen as too many people with vested interests and too many politicians afraid of the hard fight against them.Caulkhead said:
Oh yeah, ban them. That's the answer for sure. Banning things absolutely always works doesn't it?
A civilised society shouldn't need to ban them. It should be unacceptable for orgainsations like the Orange Lodges and other similar orgainsations that breed intolerance (and anyone who says that this isn't the case is a blindfolded moron. I know many who are members of this erstwile organisation and every one of them might appear to be normal, but put them in front of an old firm game or somewhere where someone starts singing the sash and their true colours come out soon enough.)I make my feelings clear enough and it's ruined more than one good friendship. Sectarianism is a cancer anywhere, but particularly in Scotland and N.I. When I moved up here I didn't believe it existed in the way it does.
It's vile, sickening and yes, it should be banned. Rangers and Celtic should be banned from playing eachother for 10 years. That way Scotland might have a chance of dragging itself out of the dark ages when it comes to relationships between different religions.
There's also the fact that both teams are utterly awful anyway and the fact that they are the best that Scotland has just shows the appalling state of Scottish football.
I've lost track of the number of times I've been asked which school I went to, what team I support or anyother such stupid questions designed solely to work out whether I'm Protestant or Catholic. Mind you, when I answer that I attended Our Sainted Mother of King Billy's Synagogue, it usually fries their meagre brains.
Edited by IforB on Sunday 3rd July 00:34
GreigM said:
What I don't understand is why its still allowed - with all the laws about inciting racial hatred etc and the banning of singing songs at football, why are the same songs allowed to be sung marching through Glasgow's main streets?
And the same applies to sectarian schools - lets not fk about, if you want to get rid of sectarianism in the west of Scotland you need to ban the walks/marches as well as the schools, but it'll never happen as too many people with vested interests and too many politicians afraid of the hard fight against them.
In extremis, both sides are very much as bad as the other, no doubt about that.And the same applies to sectarian schools - lets not f
k about, if you want to get rid of sectarianism in the west of Scotland you need to ban the walks/marches as well as the schools, but it'll never happen as too many people with vested interests and too many politicians afraid of the hard fight against them.While I agree with the overall sentiment of what you say Greig, I don't think banning is the answer, mainly due to the underlying tensions and the fact that a blanket ban would inevitably fuel the fire.
Solving the issue of sectarianism in Scotland, as you say, starts with the abolition of segregated Protestant and Roman Catholic schools, beyond that, it is a long road leading to change at an ideological and educational level, which would hopefully filter down through the coming generations.
What that doesn't solve, however, is the passing of such ideology (in many cases, misguided) from father to son, and so forth. On that issue, assuming the above took effect, it would take at least a couple of generations before any real change was evident.
Edited by ApexJimi on Sunday 3rd July 00:53
Interesting point about demographics and the majority having their wishes [or feelings, bless] jackbooted over on the alter of bliars peace process.
Also more alarming that the Ex nationalist terrorists who have [rightly] grasped the democratic process are now seen by the nationalistic "chavs" as yesterdays men, who have no control or influence on this next up and coming generation of terrorists.
Also more alarming that the Ex nationalist terrorists who have [rightly] grasped the democratic process are now seen by the nationalistic "chavs" as yesterdays men, who have no control or influence on this next up and coming generation of terrorists.
Mojocvh said:
Interesting point about demographics and the majority having their wishes [or feelings, bless] jackbooted over on the alter of bliars peace process.
Also more alarming that the Exnationalist terrorists criminals who have [rightly] grasped the democratic process are now seen by the nationalistic "chavs" as yesterdays men, who have no control or influence on this next up and coming generation of terrorists criminals.
EFAAlso more alarming that the Ex
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