Please sign this petition to save a real injustice

[roachcoach]

singlecoil said:

roachcoach said:

I'm sure you're well aware of the infringement != theft debate so I'll not rekindle it here but take a different tact:

Actually, no, I'm not. By all means argue against what I have said if you disagree with it, but introducing a large amount of material that I have no knowledge of, or interest in, isn't furthering the debate.

Did you mean 'tack'

It's an epic can o' worms, frankly. I'll try and dig up a google link rather than derail. This is a starter http://blog.ted.com/2012/03/20/the-numbers-behind-...

It's a very shaky legal precedent which bothers me and the other thread should very much interest you, as an internet connection user. £20 to challenge an accusation from big media, who in the past have accused various entities from printers, to dead people of file sharing.

Let me know the temperature of your urine when you get a letter driven by dodgy process and you have to pay to prove your innocence

All driven by our government capitulating to big media demands.



Yes :P

[singlecoil]

roachcoach said:

It's an epic can o' worms, frankly. I'll try and dig up a google link rather than derail. This is a starter http://blog.ted.com/2012/03/20/the-numbers-behind-...

It's a very shaky legal precedent which bothers me and the other thread should very much interest you, as an internet connection user. £20 to challenge an accusation from big media, who in the past have accused various entities from printers, to dead people of file sharing.

Let me know the temperature of your urine when you get a letter driven by dodgy process and you have to pay to prove your innocence

All driven by our government capitulating to big media demands.

It's evident that this is a matter on which you have strong feelings, I also have strong feelings but not on this particular subject.

But returning to the topic, AIUI this was a money making website which led to people in the USA losing money, and if that's true then it would seem reasonable to me that, given a good case to answer, that the trial should take place in the USA. Note my use of the conditional 'if'.

[martin84]

The fact some of the website users were in the US is beside the point, the website creator cannot control where people access it from. If the Police catch someone kerb crawling they don't also arrest the person who sold them the car. We don't bang up drug dealers because their customers used what they sold them. Extraditing this person because people abroad accessed his website is the most flimsy thing thought of since Elizabeth Duke bracelets.

The part the yanks seem most bothered about is the money made from the website. The website is not an American one, the creator is not American, the creator did nothing on American soil and the money was gained outside America, so quite what America has to do with this I'm not sure. As far as I'm aware this site was just a page which linked to other sites, so you can't even claim he stole the material and uploaded it. He made his money from advertisers due to people visiting his site, he was not selling copyrighted material he was selling internet hits.

Now personally I think the whole thing is a non crime and just something the industry has to adapt to these days because you cannot stop the internet, but we may all differ on that. But I do think if any trial for anything is to take place then it has to be in the UK. The Americans should be told to fk off. As I said, are we going to send people to Tehran because they're awfully annoyed we had a bacon sandwich?

Edited by martin84 on Wednesday 27th June 16:33

[Jimbeaux]

martin84 said:

Jessicus said:

Hope the smug git gets 5 years in a federal prison. Then he might realise that people who produce original works have the right to choose who gets access to them.

What next? People sent to Tehran because they had a bacon sandwich in the UK?

I think the point is he's not American, the so called crime didn't happen in America and it's none of their business.

I agree that this is stupid. I believe he should be prosecuted but by the U.K. Why do you guys have such lopsided extradition rules?

[martin84]

Jimbeaux said:

I agree that this is stupid. I believe he should be prosecuted but by the U.K. Why do you guys have such lopsided extradition rules?

I think what the US are unhappy about is he'd probably get away with it here.

[Jimbeaux]

martin84 said:

Well thankfully even America can't get people extradited purely for not wearing what they like, so we're safe on that one.

This is just another example of the Americans thinking they run the entire world.

No, actually it is the result of better negotiating on the U.S.'s part and/or weak backbone on the part of your officials. I agree that this is not fair but stop bhing at us and hold your public servants accountable.

[martin84]

Jimbeaux said:

No, actually it is the result of better negotiating on the U.S.'s part and/or weak backbone on the part of your officials. I agree that this is not fair but stop bhing at us and hold your public servants accountable.

But with 50 million people without health insurance and 15% of your population in poverty doesn't the richest nation on Earth have more pressing concerns than kids with laptops?

[Jimbeaux]

martin84 said:

Jimbeaux said:

No, actually it is the result of better negotiating on the U.S.'s part and/or weak backbone on the part of your officials. I agree that this is not fair but stop bhing at us and hold your public servants accountable.

But with 50 million people without health insurance and 15% of your population in poverty doesn't the richest nation on Earth have more pressing concerns than kids with laptops?

That is another issue. I am asking you to task your elected officials with changing your laws to favor your citizens (subjects). That would be a "cure" as opposed to the "symptom" relief that may come from whining in this direction.

[AndrewW-G]

Jimbeaux said:

No, actually it is the result of better negotiating on the U.S.'s part and/or weak backbone on the part of your officials. I agree that this is not fair but stop bhing at us and hold your public servants accountable.

Spot on, I don’t think he should be extradited, but the fact that he can be, so easily, is down to the war criminal and the one eyed mental patient’s poor management of the UK’s interests, between 1997 and 2010 and not the US government.

[martin84]

Jimbeaux said:

That is another issue. I am asking you to task your elected officials with changing your laws to favor your citizens (subjects). That would be a "cure" as opposed to the "symptom" relief that may come from whining in this direction.

Most of our laws are made by unelected bigwigs in Belgium and then converted into UK law by a Government with no testicles. Our Government has been trying to get a terrorist preacher deported for 12 years and still can't do it, nor do they even have the power to change the odd tax law. It doesn't make any difference who we vote for because they can't actually do anything if they wanted to.

I wonder how Americans would feel if their President had to go up there and say 'well I'd love to do this and that but sadly Belgium has said I can't.'

[Jimbeaux]

martin84 said:

Jimbeaux said:

That is another issue. I am asking you to task your elected officials with changing your laws to favor your citizens (subjects). That would be a "cure" as opposed to the "symptom" relief that may come from whining in this direction.

Most of our laws are made by unelected bigwigs in Belgium and then converted into UK law by a Government with no testicles. Our Government has been trying to get a terrorist preacher deported for 12 years and still can't do it, nor do they even have the power to change the odd tax law. It doesn't make any difference who we vote for because they can't actually do anything if they wanted to.

I wonder how Americans would feel if their President had to go up there and say 'well I'd love to do this and that but sadly Belgium has said I can't.'

I agree with you 100% that that sucks, and no, we would not put up with the "Belgian" syndrome. Again, however, it is not us who can correct that, it is you. Therefore, instead of asking us to please not use a power you signed over to us, simply take that power away.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Wednesday 27th June 16:59

[martin84]

Jimbeaux said:

I agree with you 100% that that sucks, and no, we would not put up with the "Belgian" syndrome. Again, however, it is not us who can correct that, it is you.

Hardly. The only way out is UKIP and we've got to convince about another 11 million people to vote for them before that'll happen. The Conservative Party as it stands today is probably closer to the US Democrats than it is to the Republicans, they make a lot of noise about Europe from time to time but never really do anything.

[Jimbeaux]

martin84 said:

Jimbeaux said:

I agree with you 100% that that sucks, and no, we would not put up with the "Belgian" syndrome. Again, however, it is not us who can correct that, it is you.

Hardly. The only way out is UKIP and we've got to convince about another 11 million people to vote for them before that'll happen. The Conservative Party as it stands today is probably closer to the US Democrats than it is to the Republicans, they make a lot of noise about Europe from time to time but never really do anything.

Interesting times.

[martin84]

How PH is it that even this thread has become about the EU?

[AndrewW-G]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_Act_2003

No mention of the EUSSR, treaty was agreed and signed by the war criminal and his gang of incompetent traitors.

[martin84]

I notice it's not been removed by posh boy and his legion of incompetent accountants.

[Jimbeaux]

Feel the love!

[roachcoach]

Jimbeaux said:

No, actually it is the result of better negotiating on the U.S.'s part and/or weak backbone on the part of your officials. I agree that this is not fair but stop bhing at us and hold your public servants accountable.

There is an argument that just because you *can* does not mean you *should*.

Frankly, BOTH nations need a word with their politicians about bribes/payoffs from big media.

And so long as I'm dreaming......