Benefits of Multiculturalism
Discussion
We're Christian because of the Romans.
We have the laws & buildings we do have in part because of the Norman conquests.
We earn interest on our banking deposits (and pay it on our loans) due to the Normans inviting Jews over after the conquest (as Christians could not charge interest).
We have the Bank of England and National Debt (and were able to rebuild the Navy after spanking the French at Beachy Head in 1690 as a result) as a result of the Dutch Prince & his entourage taking the crown in the glorious revolution and importing the Dutch idea of national banking and debt.
The English Civil War was as bloody as it was in part due to the importation of German mercenaries by both sides.
I'd say multiculturalism has done plenty of benefit to the UK. Or did you mean what has having those of a different skin colour living here done for us?
We have the laws & buildings we do have in part because of the Norman conquests.
We earn interest on our banking deposits (and pay it on our loans) due to the Normans inviting Jews over after the conquest (as Christians could not charge interest).
We have the Bank of England and National Debt (and were able to rebuild the Navy after spanking the French at Beachy Head in 1690 as a result) as a result of the Dutch Prince & his entourage taking the crown in the glorious revolution and importing the Dutch idea of national banking and debt.
The English Civil War was as bloody as it was in part due to the importation of German mercenaries by both sides.
I'd say multiculturalism has done plenty of benefit to the UK. Or did you mean what has having those of a different skin colour living here done for us?
Edited by Collectingbrass on Monday 7th December 17:38
I also reckon that what gets labeled "integration" really means to a large extent that everyone has just got used to the differences so they no longer come as a surprise. I.e. the cultural differences still exist, but they don't surprise or threaten anyone any more (e.g. wearing kilts, close harmony bloody singing, shooting pheasants while wearing misguided trousers). Clearly there are some real integration problems too; e.g. not having an adequate grasp of English, but that fixes itself within a generation.
The alienation experienced and perceived by certain groups is obviously real and serious, but I don't see it literally as an integration problem. I don't see how those groups can integrate themselves; i.e. they can't join existing groups. All that can happen is that over time both they and everyone else will come to see them as just another identifiable group that lives in the UK.
The alienation experienced and perceived by certain groups is obviously real and serious, but I don't see it literally as an integration problem. I don't see how those groups can integrate themselves; i.e. they can't join existing groups. All that can happen is that over time both they and everyone else will come to see them as just another identifiable group that lives in the UK.
Having spent a lot of time in a lot of countries that practice mono-culturalism (or as near to it as you can get), I've got some pretty good insight on this but the trouble is putting it into words that doesn't make me sound like some sandal-wearing hippy nut job. But I'll have a go.
Fundamentally, a multi-cultural country has a society that is generally deeper and broader in its outlook on all things and one that offers a richer and more varied existence for that country's inhabitants. Walk through any major town or city in the UK and think of the variety of cuisine available; Indian, Chinese, Thai.... Think of the dynamism of Brick Lane, China Town, etc.
Multiculturalism also lends itself to enable different industries and businesses to prosper. The Hugunots were responsible for boosting the UK's textile industry, Jewish settlers developed London's Jewellery industry and later, banking, etc. It's questionable whether the UK's phenomenally diverse and rich entertainment industry would be what it is today without the early driving force of immigrant Jews.
Living alongside those from or with a differing culture also enables us to experience many of the aspects of these cultures first hand - whether it is through food (Mrs Patel cooking some Indian snacks for the village fete), festival (Diwali) or religion (weddings, etc.). This allows us to recognise that there is a life outside of the UK and understand that in some cases, it's not to our taste or as good but in others, a lot better and more to our taste. Regardless of where one stands on this, the point is having the ability to experience this and form an opinion based upon experience rather than on pub-chat or the Daily Mail.....or being told what to think. As a result, we are more tolerant and life is thus nicer - on the whole.
Politically, Multicultural countries tend to offer far greater stability. Multicultural countries don't do dodgy politics or multi-party coalitions that take years to form if at all. In short, they are a safe pair of hands which makes them more attractive for foreign investment and the cost of borrowing is cheaper for these countries than others. It's not 'the' reason but an important component of the reasons.
Based on my own experience, monoculture countries offer a very 'bland' life for their populations. People in such countries tend to laugh less and enjoy themselves less. In some cases, enjoyment is almost seen as undesirable (and this isn't totally connected to religion or the availability of money).
It's also worth remembering that the British are derived from one of the most vastly, multi-cultural gene pools on earth. We're all products of Scandinavians, French, German, Spanish, etc.
Whilst only my own belief based upon my own experience, I would also say that the collective level of 'intelligence' in multicultural counties is greater than in monoculture countries.
Multiculturalism is not without its challenges but on balance, the pros outweigh the cons by orders of magnitude.
Fundamentally, a multi-cultural country has a society that is generally deeper and broader in its outlook on all things and one that offers a richer and more varied existence for that country's inhabitants. Walk through any major town or city in the UK and think of the variety of cuisine available; Indian, Chinese, Thai.... Think of the dynamism of Brick Lane, China Town, etc.
Multiculturalism also lends itself to enable different industries and businesses to prosper. The Hugunots were responsible for boosting the UK's textile industry, Jewish settlers developed London's Jewellery industry and later, banking, etc. It's questionable whether the UK's phenomenally diverse and rich entertainment industry would be what it is today without the early driving force of immigrant Jews.
Living alongside those from or with a differing culture also enables us to experience many of the aspects of these cultures first hand - whether it is through food (Mrs Patel cooking some Indian snacks for the village fete), festival (Diwali) or religion (weddings, etc.). This allows us to recognise that there is a life outside of the UK and understand that in some cases, it's not to our taste or as good but in others, a lot better and more to our taste. Regardless of where one stands on this, the point is having the ability to experience this and form an opinion based upon experience rather than on pub-chat or the Daily Mail.....or being told what to think. As a result, we are more tolerant and life is thus nicer - on the whole.
Politically, Multicultural countries tend to offer far greater stability. Multicultural countries don't do dodgy politics or multi-party coalitions that take years to form if at all. In short, they are a safe pair of hands which makes them more attractive for foreign investment and the cost of borrowing is cheaper for these countries than others. It's not 'the' reason but an important component of the reasons.
Based on my own experience, monoculture countries offer a very 'bland' life for their populations. People in such countries tend to laugh less and enjoy themselves less. In some cases, enjoyment is almost seen as undesirable (and this isn't totally connected to religion or the availability of money).
It's also worth remembering that the British are derived from one of the most vastly, multi-cultural gene pools on earth. We're all products of Scandinavians, French, German, Spanish, etc.
Whilst only my own belief based upon my own experience, I would also say that the collective level of 'intelligence' in multicultural counties is greater than in monoculture countries.
Multiculturalism is not without its challenges but on balance, the pros outweigh the cons by orders of magnitude.
Esseesse said:
No, because for example forced marriages, polygamy, honour killings, languages other than English or Scottish and other things from cultures alien to the UK have not become mainstream and are therefore part of a distinct, separate culture. In these examples there are clearly more than one culture, so here is multiculturalism.
Edit: Sorry, but the car analogy is not a good one.
It's a perfect example.Edit: Sorry, but the car analogy is not a good one.
Edited by Esseesse on Monday 7th December 17:36
You just have a negative bias on Multiculturalism.
You've decided to define it as anything you don't like, anything you do like gets bundled in with the regular culture.
That makes it impossible to mention anything positive about multiculturalism in your viewpoint, as you'll claim it as your own.
TheEnd said:
Esseesse said:
No, because for example forced marriages, polygamy, honour killings, languages other than English or Scottish and other things from cultures alien to the UK have not become mainstream and are therefore part of a distinct, separate culture. In these examples there are clearly more than one culture, so here is multiculturalism.
Edit: Sorry, but the car analogy is not a good one.
It's a perfect example.Edit: Sorry, but the car analogy is not a good one.
Edited by Esseesse on Monday 7th December 17:36
You just have a negative bias on Multiculturalism.
You've decided to define it as anything you don't like, anything you do like gets bundled in with the regular culture.
I lived in Holland as a child so have a few small Dutch traditions that I'm familiar with (and still engage with). I suppose these in their small way are an example of a multi-culture, as they aren't undertaken by the majority. To the majority having a curry is surely a normality, so it is part of regular UK culture?
TheEnd said:
It's a perfect example.
TheEnd said:
It's like saying there are no German cars in the UK, as although they are designed and made in Germany, once they are brought here and bought by UK drivers, they are now UK cars.
It's not a perfect example, because a German car is a statement of fact. It's still a German car wherever it is.If we decided to reverse engineer and then build our own 'German car', would it still be a German car or just have German ancestry?
doogz said:
Do you think forced marriage and other languages aren't things that happen in this country?
Where do you live?
I've not said that they do not.Where do you live?
I have just pointed out that these things are not the norm, whereas having a curry or a Chinese, or an Italian is (and I think this is a good/positive thing, something to enjoy. If you want to call this a benefit of multiculturalism then so be it but the language seems wrong to me).
Edited by Esseesse on Monday 7th December 17:58
I believe that a society made up of people of different ethnic, religious and racial backgrounds can be enriching for society providing that those people become fully assimilated in their host society. I don't however believe that multiculturalism consisting of separate cultures living separately from one another is a good thing because a shared culture and values is the 'glue' that holds a society together. Without that sense of shared culture, societies consisting of completely separate cultures are likely to experience disharmony and fracture...
Multithingy or immigration is one way the Gov thinks it can solve it's pension problems.
People living longer, slower birthrate, lower employment etc. Actuarial nightmare.
This may work if the immigration is selective and those immigrants have something to offer in the way of skills.
But...1f those immigrants are from the bottom of the barrel and either end up unemployed or in lower paid employment then it does little to improve the demographic.
With regard to a wider choice of food, I think most food options were already available, just not on every corner.
Actual real benefits, I guess the guys at MI5 are getting lots of overtime
People living longer, slower birthrate, lower employment etc. Actuarial nightmare.
This may work if the immigration is selective and those immigrants have something to offer in the way of skills.
But...1f those immigrants are from the bottom of the barrel and either end up unemployed or in lower paid employment then it does little to improve the demographic.
With regard to a wider choice of food, I think most food options were already available, just not on every corner.
Actual real benefits, I guess the guys at MI5 are getting lots of overtime
Edited by jeff m2 on Monday 7th December 18:36
WinstonWolf said:
Say something about 'inbreeding Pakistanis' and see how long you last. I wouldn't recommend it...
I come from the fens, and it's no different but far less 'non PC' than another thread stating that anyone from Bristol is 'council'. I'll put a link here if you like so you can have a go at them as well.However I bow to your seniority, your post count equates to humungously more experience on here than me.
Benefits?
Foreign food, ours is rather limited.
Top academics gravitating from all over the world.
Musicians throwing their styles together & learning from each other.
Exposure to different ways of thinking.
Having access to the entire world's people on your doorstep with subsequent benefits to trade and foreign expertise.
Influence on foreign cultures.
Continued spread of the English language.
From the top of my head.
Foreign food, ours is rather limited.
Top academics gravitating from all over the world.
Musicians throwing their styles together & learning from each other.
Exposure to different ways of thinking.
Having access to the entire world's people on your doorstep with subsequent benefits to trade and foreign expertise.
Influence on foreign cultures.
Continued spread of the English language.
From the top of my head.
Multicultureism is the denegrating of ones own culture to the benefit of others.
Its caused divison and resentment. Its a disaster. I honestly beleive that the vast majority of immigrants here would embrace our culture, if they were lead to beleive they should. As they have had no such "when in rome do as romans do" responsibilty pushed toward them, many have not, and want their own ways and laws to be paramount,hence all too many viewed as outsiders, and worse. The entire muliculti program has failed, a certain Angela Merkel has even grasped it and did do a good while ago.
Its caused divison and resentment. Its a disaster. I honestly beleive that the vast majority of immigrants here would embrace our culture, if they were lead to beleive they should. As they have had no such "when in rome do as romans do" responsibilty pushed toward them, many have not, and want their own ways and laws to be paramount,hence all too many viewed as outsiders, and worse. The entire muliculti program has failed, a certain Angela Merkel has even grasped it and did do a good while ago.
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