Post EU renegotiation poll, have opinions changed?

[Ridley]

Scuffers said:

Ridley said:

Then why didn't you know that child benefit would still be paid?

sorry where I said otherwise or even implied such?

Scuffers said:

MickC said:

Um. We would still have to pay them, but only at 'Romainian Standard of Living' levels. And even that's open to legalities. What a waste of time.

Why would we still have to pay?

Goldfish

[voyds9]

Getting rid of the words

EVER CLOSER UNION

isn't getting rid of the the ever closer union, it's only got rid of the words

we will still have to implement the directives, we will still be at the whim of none English bureaucrats and 27 other countries.

At least if we disagree with the UK government we can vote them out every 5 years.

[Scuffers]

Ridley said:

Scuffers said:

Ridley said:

Then why didn't you know that child benefit would still be paid?

sorry where I said otherwise or even implied such?

Scuffers said:

MickC said:

Um. We would still have to pay them, but only at 'Romainian Standard of Living' levels. And even that's open to legalities. What a waste of time.

Why would we still have to pay?

Goldfish

What?

Are you on drugs or something?

If we pull out of the EU we will not be paying anything.

Is that such a hard concept to understand?

[Ridley]

Scuffers said:

Is that such a hard concept to understand?

Your inability to follow a discussion makes it incredibly hard to have a conversation.

Have a read of what the other posters have written. They're talking about the negotiated deal, not the result of us leaving.

[Scuffers]

Ridley said:

Scuffers said:

Is that such a hard concept to understand?

Your inability to follow a discussion makes it incredibly hard to have a conversation.

Have a read of what the other posters have written. They're talking about the negotiated deal, not the result of us leaving.

Hhello?

Mr pot?

[eatcustard]

We have a Polish PM telling the UK PM what benefits the Polish can have.

OUT!!!!

Weak PM, is weak.

[Scuffers]

having just sat though both the Marr and sunday politics shows, and all I can say is what a load of bull.

project fear really is the order of the day, like world trade will stop if we leave, and we won't be able to secure our country without the EU arrest warrant etc etc etc.

Farage pointed out that the trade deal with Canada has taken 7 years so far with the EU, in which time, trade has simply gone elsewhere.

the EU is a dying trade zone, China/India/Asia are the growth markets, yet the EU is not even talking to them over trade.

as I said before, if we actually do vote to leave CMD has to go, nobody will trust him to negotiate our exit.

[jurbie]

I do wonder in amongst all the scaremongering of an exit what the EU response will be if we vote to stay in? An odd question perhaps but will we be welcomed like a prodigal son back into the arms of our european brethren, or will we instead get a few years on the EU naughty step as an example to other unruly states not to question the authority of the EU?

I have a feeling that having gone this far down the road staying in may actually prove to be a worse option. At least a trade war hurts both parties but with us committed to staying for several more decades the EU will be in a fine position to ensure we and others don't rock the boat any more.

[AJS-]

No no. This spiteful cabal who were ready to impose a trade embargo on us like some rogue state will be back to their kindly loving selves again if 51% of us are cowed into voting Remain.

[Scuffers]

ok looking at this from another perspective will vote to leave just what level of panic is going to set in the rest of the EU?

they just lost their single biggest market they've lost their second largest financial contributor and the eurozone is still in deep trouble, live lost one of the only two members with a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, what do you think they'll do next?

[EddieSteadyGo]

Scuffers said:

ok looking at this from another perspective will vote to leave just what level of panic is going to set in the rest of the EU?

Looking at the possible answers to this question I think helps clarify the pros and cons of a Brexit.

If we accept the premise that the EU, for many members, is a political project into which they have invested a huge amount.

So they have formed the Euro, and are on the path to much further and deeper integration.

The remaining market size of the combined economies, even without the UK, is massive.

So when the post Leave Brexit negotiating team arrive in Brussels do they;

i) Offer full access to the single market, for both goods and services, with no contributions, and with no requirement for the free movement of people.

ii) Play hard ball

If they go for option i) it would mean the likely breakup of the EU. This is because there are many other fringe countries currently in the EU who would prefer such an arrangement.

If you weigh up the implications of less trade with the UK in the short term, vs the break up of the whole EU project, it isn't hard to see they will choose option ii).

I'm not saying Britain couldn't manage outside of the EU, far from it. But to expect the pressure from the German car companies who want access to the UK market to outweigh the risks to the whole EU political project is misguided.

[Scuffers]

interesting point of view and I don't actually disagree with much of it,

My thought would be if we leave that leaves Germany to foot the bill for the rest of the EU and I can't see that situation lasting long, the other problem is that Germany is disproportionately exposed if we leave and don't get a free trade deal the rest of the EU has less of a problem with that but obviously more a problem with free movement And the need for money.

[Pesty]

Scuffers said:

ok looking at this from another perspective will vote to leave just what level of panic is going to set in the rest of the EU?

they just lost their single biggest market they've lost their second largest financial contributor and the eurozone is still in deep trouble, live lost one of the only two members with a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, what do you think they'll do next?

And yet from such a good bargaining position we come away with crumbs.


Funny old world. I''m starting to get very tin foil recently, I'm sure all the EU leaders are Russian sleepers trained to get to power and destroy Europe ..... Wibble im definitely losing it.

[AJS-]

Worth remembering that those marginal players on the edges of the EU are a significant market. UK and Ireland are already 70 million to German's 80 and quite likely to overtake Germany in the next 20 years. If Sweden, Finland and Denmark start to look for the exit then you have a big block of advanced economies. The EU would then either have to seriously reform or accept the existence of a large block of European countries who have no wish to be in a political and economic union and would then have to work with that.

[danllama]

If there is one result in my lifetime that's like to be rigged it's this referendum.

I'll be taking a permanent marker and voting OUT of this corrupt bullst!

Nothing will change my mind. Is there anything more embarrassing than being told what's what by the PM of Poland!?

[EddieSteadyGo]

Scuffers said:

My thought would be if we leave that leaves Germany to foot the bill for the rest of the EU and I can't see that situation lasting long.

You might be right, but I wonder if you are being too logical.

If you start from a British perspective, most people probably just want a free market which is run and operated fairly without all of the political superstate aspirations.

But from an EU leaders perspective, they seem guided by far loftier ambitions. For example, if financial logic were the primary rationale, why would Germany have formed a currency union with Greece, Portugal etc?

So, many of their decisions seems strange when viewed from an economic perspective, simply because they are not focused on the economics.

Therefore, predicting the results of a Brexit negotiation is quite tricky to do.

[Scuffers]

Germany has done very well out of the euro, sold a lot of stuff to the Greeks etc before it all started to fall apart.

[anonymous-user]

Ridley said:

Scuffers said:

Ridley said:

Yep. And it looks like the OP hasn't even read the deal before deciding it's a farce.

Yes, i have, have you?

Then why didn't you know that child benefit would still be paid?

Have you posted your views on the deal after reading it, with what you see as beneficial, worthwhile and guaranteed?

I can't find anything.

[EddieSteadyGo]

Scuffers said:

Germany has done very well out of the euro, sold a lot of stuff to the Greeks etc before it all started to fall apart.

Yes, true, but they knew the Greek government was supporting their economy using massive borrowing, much of which was underwritten by German banks.

Bearing in mind much of this debt will eventually be written off, I'm not sure if they are more prosperous overall.

[Norfolkit]

Don said:

Interesting. Once again PH is not a barometer of public opinion. But as an indication my view on how this will turn out is being borne out here, at least.

I don't think Cameron could get a deal that would impress PH.

Cameron could have tried to get the deal as described in the Tory manifesto, he didn't even try. Just go there, talk a bit, come back with some half arsed deal that amounts to nothing, then has the temerity to recommend a stay vote. The man's a charlatan. Six months ago I was erring on stay but after this farce I'm definitely out.