J Hunt and S Hawking - how do we know...
Discussion
Not-The-Messiah said:
To say Hawkings has made it the 75 with his medical problems goes to show the NHS cant be that bad. I'm sure hes only ever used NHS services and never used these so called evil privet medical services by choice himself?
A NHS Hip Replacement costs £5,500
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...
A private hip replacement costs between £8,500 and £16,000
http://www.privatehealth.co.uk/conditions-and-trea...
The point is that the NHS is paid for by all of us, we want it to be efficient and cost effective any 'profits' to be put back in to the system for health care not chief exec pay or privatised profit.
The NHS was created out of the ideal that good healthcare should be available to all, regardless of wealth. When it was launched by the then minister of health, Aneurin Bevan, on July 5 1948, it was based on three core principles:
that it meet the needs of everyone
that it be free at the point of delivery
that it be based on clinical need, not ability to pay
These three principles have guided the development of the NHS over more than 60 years and remain at its core.
Long may it be so.
Toaster said:
No ! This is post take over of said Surgery http://www.nhs.uk/Services/GP/ReviewsAndRatings/De...
It not about Correct privatisation its about process, and private hospitals do not carry out the full range of services the NHS does. and the same surgeons in the NHS also work for the priviate ones your mother would have probably had the same surge in the NHS as the Private practice.....
And the NHS doesn't carry out some services provided elsewhere in the world so what is your point.It not about Correct privatisation its about process, and private hospitals do not carry out the full range of services the NHS does. and the same surgeons in the NHS also work for the priviate ones your mother would have probably had the same surge in the NHS as the Private practice.....
I am aware it is normally the same surgeons who work in the NHS and private practice. I also know that they get a new hip in both places so why is the NHS overcharging when private practice can do it cheaper and still make a profit
Toaster said:
voyds9 said:
Hawking calls out Hunt for only using some research papers.
Hawking only uses some papers to forward his ideas on climate change
The common factor Hawking as an agenda.
(and is a hypocrite)
Do your own research: Hawking only uses some papers to forward his ideas on climate change
The common factor Hawking as an agenda.
(and is a hypocrite)
Maybe this will help you start your research:
Virgin Health Care Sues NHS for loosing contract.
https://www.ft.com/content/297e7714-089f-11e7-97d1...
How many GP surgeries have had to close after the government changed funding rules?
Here's another one:
A GP practice in Essex rated outstanding by the CQC will be taken over next month by the private provider Virgin Care after £400,000 cuts to PMS funding forced existing partners to hand in their notice.
http://www.gponline.com/virgin-set-outstanding-gp-...
Tell me that the private sector isn't taking over the NHS!!!!!
Emanresu said:
I've seen a few videos on YouTube recently and if you believe what they say, Stephen hawking died years ago. What you have now is either a robot dummy or a drugged up lookalike vegetable who does nothing more than provide a physical presence. The computer speech thing is controlled by a guy with a keyboard in the back room which there is also apparently footage of. There also the fact that nobody with ALS lives that long. Videos are reasonably well put together and show many reasons why the theories could be true.
What do I personally think? Meh. Couldn't care less.
it could just be true,...What do I personally think? Meh. Couldn't care less.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZR64EF3OpA
Toaster said:
Maybe this will help you start your research:
Virgin Health Care Sues NHS for loosing contract.
https://www.ft.com/content/297e7714-089f-11e7-97d1...
Link doesn't work.Virgin Health Care Sues NHS for loosing contract.
https://www.ft.com/content/297e7714-089f-11e7-97d1...
But I presume it's this story?
https://healthcaretimes.co.uk/virgin-care-to-sue-n...
So the contract was awarded to one private-sector bidder, rather than another, who are suggesting it wasn't awarded fairly.
If a bidder for any NHS contract thinks that the procurement process wasn't fair and open, then they are well within their rights to seek a legal opinion. Shouldn't they be?
Toaster said:
How many GP surgeries have had to close after the government changed funding rules?
Here's another one:
A GP practice in Essex rated outstanding by the CQC will be taken over next month by the private provider Virgin Care after £400,000 cuts to PMS funding forced existing partners to hand in their notice.
http://www.gponline.com/virgin-set-outstanding-gp-...
Tell me that the private sector isn't taking over the NHS!!!!!
Umm, GP surgeries already are - and always have been - private sector. One private sector contractor has decided they can no longer run their business profitably on the contractual rates, so another one is taking over - because they think they can. Is this a problem?Here's another one:
A GP practice in Essex rated outstanding by the CQC will be taken over next month by the private provider Virgin Care after £400,000 cuts to PMS funding forced existing partners to hand in their notice.
http://www.gponline.com/virgin-set-outstanding-gp-...
Tell me that the private sector isn't taking over the NHS!!!!!
Surely it's a GOOD thing if the NHS can get suitable quality work done more cheaply...? Unless you're suggesting that the contracts are being awarded without taking quality and value into account - in which case, it's the procurement process which is incompetent or corrupt - and that's within the public sector...
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Sunday 20th August 13:23
Toaster said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
To say Hawkings has made it the 75 with his medical problems goes to show the NHS cant be that bad. I'm sure hes only ever used NHS services and never used these so called evil privet medical services by choice himself?
A NHS Hip Replacement costs £5,500
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...
A private hip replacement costs between £8,500 and £16,000
http://www.privatehealth.co.uk/conditions-and-trea...
The point is that the NHS is paid for by all of us, we want it to be efficient and cost effective any 'profits' to be put back in to the system for health care not chief exec pay or privatised profit.
The NHS was created out of the ideal that good healthcare should be available to all, regardless of wealth. When it was launched by the then minister of health, Aneurin Bevan, on July 5 1948, it was based on three core principles:
that it meet the needs of everyone
that it be free at the point of delivery
that it be based on clinical need, not ability to pay
These three principles have guided the development of the NHS over more than 60 years and remain at its core.
Long may it be so.
Not-The-Messiah said:
The point I was trying to make is no doubt he has chosen to use privet healthcare himself because he can afford it and because its better.
I VERY much doubt that Hawking has always used private healthcare...But, if you wish to call him a liar, then at least be explicit about it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northame...
Jonesy23 said:
Derek Smith said:
Hawking is commentating on his speciality: scientific research and how it should be interpreted. Hunt has shown himself to be way, way behind on his understanding of research. Hunt picked the results that favoured his agenda. He suggested that Hawking is goo at what he does, ie interpreting research, and then suggests he can't interpret research.
Sorry but 'interpreting research' is just some made up catch all that people created in an attempt to give Hawking's views on this some value.He's a theoretical physicist. His speciality is theoretical physics. He can interpret research on theoretical physics, though original work was his forte. If I gave him a research paper on some aspect of biochemistry (for example) he wouldn't be able to give an useful reaction to it beyond the way the paper was structured and the spelling.
Hunt may or may not be full of crap; I'm not interested enough to check. But bringing Stephen Hawking up as some genius reference point for everything is nonsense.
Read what SH said and you will see that he was spot on. It doesn't take a genius to work that out. It is simple enough, even for the prejudiced to understand. Cherry picking is cherry picking and Hunt should be pulled up on it. Hunt's justification of the Freemantle Report shows that he doesn't have a basic understanding of the matter. Or rather, I suspect he does. He is the king of spin.
http://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h4596/rapid-res...
There is no consensus. In fact there's more research against Hunt's conclusions than for it. The Freemantle Report is open to criticism and there are what some feel are research based on better processes. But then, these would have been no use to Hunt.
It is not as if SH is a lone voice crying in the wilderness. He's supported by many, and many whom I'd trust over Hunt or any aggressively ambitious politician.
You seem to be suggesting that the scientific method is different for different specialities. Well I wouldn't dream of criticising anyone for beliefs but one must ask why Hunt preferred the research that supported his point of view and ignored the ones, some very well respected, that disagreed.
And Hunt is full of crap.
Toaster said:
A NHS Hip Replacement costs £5,500
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...
A private hip replacement costs between £8,500 and £16,000
http://www.privatehealth.co.uk/conditions-and-trea...
The point is that the NHS is paid for by all of us, we want it to be efficient and cost effective any 'profits' to be put back in to the system for health care not chief exec pay or privatised profit.
The NHS was created out of the ideal that good healthcare should be available to all, regardless of wealth. When it was launched by the then minister of health, Aneurin Bevan, on July 5 1948, it was based on three core principles:
that it meet the needs of everyone
that it be free at the point of delivery
that it be based on clinical need, not ability to pay
These three principles have guided the development of the NHS over more than 60 years and remain at its core.
Long may it be so.
Just as a point of interest is that figure charged by a private provider (£8,500 to £16,000) what they charge the NHS Or a single private patient? If the latter then it is highly likely that it will not be the cost to the NHS - discount for buying many is common enough.https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...
A private hip replacement costs between £8,500 and £16,000
http://www.privatehealth.co.uk/conditions-and-trea...
The point is that the NHS is paid for by all of us, we want it to be efficient and cost effective any 'profits' to be put back in to the system for health care not chief exec pay or privatised profit.
The NHS was created out of the ideal that good healthcare should be available to all, regardless of wealth. When it was launched by the then minister of health, Aneurin Bevan, on July 5 1948, it was based on three core principles:
that it meet the needs of everyone
that it be free at the point of delivery
that it be based on clinical need, not ability to pay
These three principles have guided the development of the NHS over more than 60 years and remain at its core.
Long may it be so.
Bevans three principals still apply, and every political party is committed to them. It's the free at the point of delivery which matters to most people, personally I don't give a flying f
k who does my operation, a private hospital or an NHS hospital, all I want as a patient is for it to be done quickly, done well, done right first time and be treated as a human being.I stand to be corrected but wasn't the idea of private suppliers to the NHS well supported by Labour when they were in government? the principal is sound if it manifests as less tax having to be paid for the same or better service. Does anybody know, for example, whether a private supplier has to commit to NHS public sector pensions? Somehow I doubt it, which is a good thing in my book.
I've never understood why the left have a problem with private providers in the NHS as long as it's a universal service and free at the point of delivery. I have seen absolutely nothing to State the government is looking to privatise Health Services to an American system.
However, I am pleased when they take steps to save us money, and to improve efficiency and effectiveness.
Still ideology is a powerful thing isn't it.
GP surgeries are closing because it is much more efficient to have super surgeries with 30,000 patients, served by a rota of doctors who don't struggle with holiday gaps, have nurses and paramedics to deal with minor issues, tests and patient monitoring where doctors are no required, have large well trained admin teams, the best equipment etc etc.
deadslow said:
Chest Rockwell said:
Odd how Labourites seem to forget Gordon Broon's disastrous PFI which costs our NHS a fortune. Brown sold parts of our NHS to his banker buddies.
yes, you are correct: everyone who profited from PFI was a Tory.Derek Smith said:
Read what SH said and you will see that he was spot on. It doesn't take a genius to work that out. It is simple enough, even for the prejudiced to understand. Cherry picking is cherry picking and Hunt should be pulled up on it. Hunt's justification of the Freemantle Report shows that he doesn't have a basic understanding of the matter. Or rather, I suspect he does. He is the king of spin.
http://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h4596/rapid-res...
There is no consensus. In fact there's more research against Hunt's conclusions than for it. The Freemantle Report is open to criticism and there are what some feel are research based on better processes. But then, these would have been no use to Hunt.
Cherry picking in the context of literature reviews is an accusation normally applied when the methodology for choosing the literature isn't clear. And even then it doesn't mean there is an issue.http://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h4596/rapid-res...
There is no consensus. In fact there's more research against Hunt's conclusions than for it. The Freemantle Report is open to criticism and there are what some feel are research based on better processes. But then, these would have been no use to Hunt.
Hunt's free to ignore any wider consensus, any criticism of the report and other research when he says he chose to use Freemantle because it was the most comprehensive. At that point I think it's difficult to argue it's cherry picking unless you can clearly demonstrate there is a more comprehensive alternative.
Chest Rockwell said:
deadslow said:
Chest Rockwell said:
Odd how Labourites seem to forget Gordon Broon's disastrous PFI which costs our NHS a fortune. Brown sold parts of our NHS to his banker buddies.
yes, you are correct: everyone who profited from PFI was a Tory.deadslow said:
Chest Rockwell said:
deadslow said:
Chest Rockwell said:
Odd how Labourites seem to forget Gordon Broon's disastrous PFI which costs our NHS a fortune. Brown sold parts of our NHS to his banker buddies.
yes, you are correct: everyone who profited from PFI was a Tory.Isn't it odd how our NHS is on the hook for 30 years of rip-off PFI rents when we (the taxpayer) bailed out the banks incharge of the PFI finance vehicles (apart from HSBC)? I seem to remember that the Bank of England had to stump up the cash for an M25 PFI project which had a bailed out bank as the finance vehicle.
And this all happened under New Liebour. Dead Slow, you do realise the Tories were in opposition at the time?
Edited by Chest Rockwell on Sunday 20th August 16:22
Chest Rockwell said:
deadslow said:
Chest Rockwell said:
deadslow said:
Chest Rockwell said:
Odd how Labourites seem to forget Gordon Broon's disastrous PFI which costs our NHS a fortune. Brown sold parts of our NHS to his banker buddies.
yes, you are correct: everyone who profited from PFI was a Tory.Isn't it odd how our NHS is on the hook for 30 years of rip-off PFI rents when we (the taxpayer) bailed out the banks incharge of the PFI finance vehicles (apart from HSBC)? I seem to remember that the Bank of England had to stump up the cash for an M25 PFI project which had a bailed out bank as the finance vehicle.
And this all happened under New Liebour. Dead Slow, you do realise the Tories were in opposition at the time?
Edited by Chest Rockwell on Sunday 20th August 16:22
deadslow said:
Chest Rockwell said:
deadslow said:
Chest Rockwell said:
deadslow said:
Chest Rockwell said:
Odd how Labourites seem to forget Gordon Broon's disastrous PFI which costs our NHS a fortune. Brown sold parts of our NHS to his banker buddies.
yes, you are correct: everyone who profited from PFI was a Tory.Isn't it odd how our NHS is on the hook for 30 years of rip-off PFI rents when we (the taxpayer) bailed out the banks incharge of the PFI finance vehicles (apart from HSBC)? I seem to remember that the Bank of England had to stump up the cash for an M25 PFI project which had a bailed out bank as the finance vehicle.
And this all happened under New Liebour. Dead Slow, you do realise the Tories were in opposition at the time?
Edited by Chest Rockwell on Sunday 20th August 16:22
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