The people's vote
Discussion
abzmike said:
Isn’t this sweet... this thread is like a safe place Brexiters can come and comfort themselves. Meanwhile the rest of us are none the wiser what will happen on the 30/3/19.
I'll probably do parkrun, then have a sausage sandwich, followed by some messing about until me and the missus go to the pub, that's my guess.Deptford Draylons said:
Endorsed too by respected Brexit expert, Gabby Logan.
Grown ups know democracy isn't a game of dare where just keep asking for another vote until you achieve the result you would like, at which point you stop. Loon Remain dolts don't get that.
Is that why May called a snap election?Grown ups know democracy isn't a game of dare where just keep asking for another vote until you achieve the result you would like, at which point you stop. Loon Remain dolts don't get that.
There shouldn't be another vote and any attempt to have one will just be seen as sour grapes. People voted to leave the EU, they voted for whatever our Government could agree with the rest of the EU member states, be that a bad deal, a good deal or no deal at all. That is exactly what people thought was worth voting over and a lot of people believe it is worth the gamble. As someone who voted to stay in, I'm aware of the fact that not everything about the EU is perfect and there are a lot of issues however, I also think that overall we are better off staying. People who voted the other way disagree and that's fine. Time will tell but we have to respect the vote and see how it all turns out. Having a "people's vote" just makes a mockery of democracy and will create more division.
If there's no deal or a bad deal then I'm sure it will be blamed on the Government rather than the UK voters and if there's a deal which leaves us better off then all of those who voted to remain will have been proved wrong. It's all a waiting game now, we won't know the full extent of success or failure for a long time. Holding another vote won't alter that. We need to get on with either damage limitation or building a stronger better UK depending on your point of view.
If there's no deal or a bad deal then I'm sure it will be blamed on the Government rather than the UK voters and if there's a deal which leaves us better off then all of those who voted to remain will have been proved wrong. It's all a waiting game now, we won't know the full extent of success or failure for a long time. Holding another vote won't alter that. We need to get on with either damage limitation or building a stronger better UK depending on your point of view.
The entire strategy of this People's vote seems to be let's try again, we will win this time, then the matter will be sorted. The vote to leave was the largest single mandate in British history, and a large part of why they won was people feeling ignored by the government and the elites. If we overturn the result, how can we expect people to ever trust the democratic process again? How will ignoring the wishes of a group who felt they were ignored help them? We were told in no uncertain terms that this was a once in a generation decision and the results would be implemented. Every argument they put forward is illogical:
People have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
People have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
Russian Troll Bot said:
The entire strategy of this People's vote seems to be let's try again, we will win this time, then the matter will be sorted. The vote to leave was the largest single mandate in British history, and a large part of why they won was people feeling ignored by the government and the elites. If we overturn the result, how can we expect people to ever trust the democratic process again? How will ignoring the wishes of a group who felt they were ignored help them? We were told in no uncertain terms that this was a once in a generation decision and the results would be implemented. Every argument they put forward is illogical:
People have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
People have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
^^^
Lets face it fast forward 5 or 10 years after all the shouting's done everythings going to look pretty much the same as it does today. The best way to loose out of this would be to look like buffoons during the process with people's vote childishness or a 'deal' that fudges over the promises of the leave vote.
Lets face it fast forward 5 or 10 years after all the shouting's done everythings going to look pretty much the same as it does today. The best way to loose out of this would be to look like buffoons during the process with people's vote childishness or a 'deal' that fudges over the promises of the leave vote.
The People's Vote is a very clever scheme by maligned individuals.
They just want a vote on the terms of Brexit, for example do we accept or leave without a deal?
How harmful is that?
Oh also the option to remain must be on the ballot of course
Bang, they win. The leave vote is split 50/50 between the option to accept or take the no deal whereas the remain camp is 100% behind remain.
And voila, the people have spoken and they have said Remain!
That is despite the fact nearly twice as many vote for one of the leave options.
Typical Bliar scheme.. "Maybe we don't need another referendum but you other metrics to determine if the people still want Brexit"
They just want a vote on the terms of Brexit, for example do we accept or leave without a deal?
How harmful is that?
Oh also the option to remain must be on the ballot of course
Bang, they win. The leave vote is split 50/50 between the option to accept or take the no deal whereas the remain camp is 100% behind remain.
And voila, the people have spoken and they have said Remain!
That is despite the fact nearly twice as many vote for one of the leave options.
Typical Bliar scheme.. "Maybe we don't need another referendum but you other metrics to determine if the people still want Brexit"
Russian Troll Bot said:
The entire strategy of this People's vote seems to be let's try again, we will win this time, then the matter will be sorted. The vote to leave was the largest single mandate in British history, and a large part of why they won was people feeling ignored by the government and the elites. If we overturn the result, how can we expect people to ever trust the democratic process again? How will ignoring the wishes of a group who felt they were ignored help them? We were told in no uncertain terms that this was a once in a generation decision and the results would be implemented. Every argument they put forward is illogical:
People have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
Absolute storming post, one of the best on the whole thread, the type of post remainers will utterly hate to the very pitPeople have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
of their gut.
So much childish dummy chucking drivel spouted on this thread every day by the usual suspects we have become
bored to death with, but just occasionally we read something special like that above. Very well done.(From a remain voter).
Russian Troll Bot said:
If we overturn the result, how can we expect people to ever trust the democratic process again?
^^^This & this again. I'm guessing many people, myself included, will not vote ever again if the referendum result is somehow overturned - what would be the point?I hope this doesn't descend into a bigger farce than it already is.
Let's not forget that a driver for a second referendum is that apparently "a large part of the country has changed its mind", according to polls.
Yet polling for major political decisions in the UK over the last few years has been wrong - spectacularly so, in some cases. Polling for the 2015 GE showed a coalition government was likely; instead we had a Tory majority. Polling in 2017 showed a clear Tory majority and instead we had a hung Parliament.
Even the polling for the EU Referendum itself showed a narrow win for Remain.
I take the claim of "the country has changed its mind" with a pinch of salt. Who can honestly say that Remain would almost certainly win if you asked the same question again? Even Remainers can't.
Yet polling for major political decisions in the UK over the last few years has been wrong - spectacularly so, in some cases. Polling for the 2015 GE showed a coalition government was likely; instead we had a Tory majority. Polling in 2017 showed a clear Tory majority and instead we had a hung Parliament.
Even the polling for the EU Referendum itself showed a narrow win for Remain.
I take the claim of "the country has changed its mind" with a pinch of salt. Who can honestly say that Remain would almost certainly win if you asked the same question again? Even Remainers can't.
Russian Troll Bot said:
The entire strategy of this People's vote seems to be let's try again, we will win this time, then the matter will be sorted. The vote to leave was the largest single mandate in British history, and a large part of why they won was people feeling ignored by the government and the elites. If we overturn the result, how can we expect people to ever trust the democratic process again? How will ignoring the wishes of a group who felt they were ignored help them? We were told in no uncertain terms that this was a once in a generation decision and the results would be implemented. Every argument they put forward is illogical:
People have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
Superb post, nail firmly on head. People have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
Biker 1 said:
Russian Troll Bot said:
If we overturn the result, how can we expect people to ever trust the democratic process again?
^^^This & this again. I'm guessing many people, myself included, will not vote ever again if the referendum result is somehow overturned - what would be the point?I hope this doesn't descend into a bigger farce than it already is.
move. I think the chance of the vote being overturned is miniscule to zero anyway.
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