The Blue Sky thread.

[Getragdogleg]

Thanks for the Wiki link.

I am leaning towards not believing the trails are just water vapour.

The reason I am considering this is becasue on a normal day Aircraft are trailing up the sky some leave long trails that last all day that spread and others in the same airspace lay trails that dissapear quickly "following" the plane as it progresses across the sky.

I am curious to know if there are different types of fuel, different combustion processes used by some planes and not others.

I know that the weather is nice today, I am saying that if the planes were running as normal the sky down here by now would be foggy and trailed.

[s2art]

Getragdogleg said:

Thanks for the Wiki link.

I am leaning towards not believing the trails are just water vapour.

The reason I am considering this is becasue on a normal day Aircraft are trailing up the sky some leave long trails that last all day that spread and others in the same airspace lay trails that dissapear quickly "following" the plane as it progresses across the sky.

I am curious to know if there are different types of fuel, different combustion processes used by some planes and not others.

I know that the weather is nice today, I am saying that if the planes were running as normal the sky down here by now would be foggy and trailed.

There will be some unburned hydrocarbons and SO2 emitted as well as water vapour.

[Eric Mc]

Getragdogleg said:

Thanks for the Wiki link.

I am leaning towards not believing the trails are just water vapour.

The reason I am considering this is becasue on a normal day Aircraft are trailing up the sky some leave long trails that last all day that spread and others in the same airspace lay trails that dissapear quickly "following" the plane as it progresses across the sky.

I am curious to know if there are different types of fuel, different combustion processes used by some planes and not others.

I know that the weather is nice today, I am saying that if the planes were running as normal the sky down here by now would be foggy and trailed.

Condensation trails are mainly made up of of water.

The shape and length of a trail will vary depending on the atmospheric conditions met by the aircraft as it passes through the sky. That is why trails sometimes "turn off" and "turn on" intermittently.

These days, jet aircraft use a form of kerosene (parrafin) which is pretty much standardised throughout the world.
Piston engined aircraft and turboprops also leave contrails.

[eldar]

My car leaves a contrail when I drive it fast at 33,000 feet.

[Jasandjules]

Grey and overcast here in Suffolk now.. Was a nicer day this morning though.

[Getragdogleg]

Eric Mc said:

Condensation trails are mainly made up of of water.

The shape and length of a trail will vary depending on the atmospheric conditions met by the aircraft as it passes through the sky. That is why trails sometimes "turn off" and "turn on" intermittently.

These days, jet aircraft use a form of kerosene (parrafin) which is pretty much standardised throughout the world.
Piston engined aircraft and turboprops also leave contrails.

So it could be the engines not burning all the fuel properly and this is the greasy fog that spreads out ?

I dont recall long lingering trails when I was a kid, they would follow the plane and fade at around the same speed the plane made progress across the sky. has the fuel changed/been standardised over the last 15 years or so ?
has the engine tech changed so they are more likely to leave lingering trails ?

[Marf]

Getragdogleg said:

Eric Mc said:

Condensation trails are mainly made up of of water.

The shape and length of a trail will vary depending on the atmospheric conditions met by the aircraft as it passes through the sky. That is why trails sometimes "turn off" and "turn on" intermittently.

These days, jet aircraft use a form of kerosene (parrafin) which is pretty much standardised throughout the world.
Piston engined aircraft and turboprops also leave contrails.

So it could be the engines not burning all the fuel properly and this is the greasy fog that spreads out ?

I dont recall long lingering trails when I was a kid, they would follow the plane and fade at around the same speed the plane made progress across the sky. has the fuel changed/been standardised over the last 15 years or so ?
has the engine tech changed so they are more likely to leave lingering trails ?

I've also noticed this, as you say GDL, I never remember seeing persistent trails as a kid, whereas now they seem to be quite common place, and can act to form some odd cloudlike formations.

[GTIR]

When I lived in Perth, Oz the weather was obviously pretty good 10 months of the year - clear blue sky every day.

I did notice however that the sky was never as clear and crisp as when we have clear days in the UK (twice a year!) it was always a bit dirtier.
Perth is the most isolated city in the world and the amount of air traffic was minute compared to the UK so how do you explain the clear blue skys (in comparison) to the UK?

It's just a coincidence, and anyway it clouded over this afternoon in East Anglia.

[dilbert]

The engines have improved a lot.
They're way more efficient than they were.
Probably find that although still hot, there is a more uniform and lower exhaust temperature.

[Hedders]

GTIR said:

When I lived in Perth, Oz the weather was obviously pretty good 10 months of the year - clear blue sky every day.

I did notice however that the sky was never as clear and crisp as when we have clear days in the UK (twice a year!) it was always a bit dirtier.
Perth is the most isolated city in the world and the amount of air traffic was minute compared to the UK so how do you explain the clear blue skys (in comparison) to the UK?

It's just a coincidence, and anyway it clouded over this afternoon in East Anglia.

Is it not possible that there is more dust/sand in the air in Australia than in the UK??

[Size Nine Elm]

Jets are also flying progressively higher, so the contrails are in colder air and last longer. They're effectively man-made cirrus.

It all depends on the relative humidity and temperature of the air - there's a threshold below which contrails won't appear.

[anonymous-user]

It's already been touched on above, I would say it is due to atmospheric conditions. This would have an effect how long the trails would take to dissipate. I would imagine wind at those altitudes would make the trails disperse quite quickly. If it was very still they would probably hang around for quite some time.

I don't think the fuel being used would have anything to do with it, as what you see is vapour.

[DangerousMike]

if you burn hydrocarbons (or people) you get CO2 and H2O... if you have contaminants - e.g. sulfur in your fuel, you might make some SO2 but I would expect the production of that to minimal. The N2 in the air that is used to burn fuel is also oxidised and therefore the planes product some nitrogen oxides (NO, NO2, etc.).

The trails you see are basically water vapour (clouds). They are not consistent because their formation depends on the temperature of the surrounding air and therefore the altitude of the aeroplane. Wind etc. will affect if they disperse or are persistent. Of course the amount of water vapour produced depends on how much fuel the engines are burning.

[Getragdogleg]

DangerousMike said:

if you burn hydrocarbons (or people) you get CO2 and H2O... if you have contaminants - e.g. sulfur in your fuel, you might make some SO2 but I would expect the production of that to minimal. The N2 in the air that is used to burn fuel is also oxidised and therefore the planes product some nitrogen oxides (NO, NO2, etc.).

The trails you see are basically water vapour (clouds). They are not consistent because their formation depends on the temperature of the surrounding air and therefore the altitude of the aeroplane. Wind etc. will affect if they disperse or are persistent. Of course the amount of water vapour produced depends on how much fuel the engines are burning.

So its normal but amount of planes and operating height/engine tech is making the trails hang about more now ?

[DaveShark]

Ive also been watching the skies for a few years, as I have previously watched thos videos which claim the "Chemtrails" are some kind of HAARP conductor. Whilst I doubted this because of the scale of the operation I did not find any convincing reason why some planes left trails, and some disappeard in seconds, apart from perhaps a slight difference in altitude.

I was also aware that after 9/11 the grounding caused unusually clear skies, as normally the trail cause the clear blue sky to turn wispy white most days. I've watched the same happen here in the Somerset reigion (under a fair few flight paths), I really cannot remember a day that ended completely clear. Mornings, yes, but even by 7-8am, the sky is cris-crossed with trails. This latest grounding has really showed me what we have been missing. Conspiracy or not, it is pretty obvious to me that humanity and aircraft are causing duller/greyer skies. I'm not a believer in MMGW or MMCG, but I am shocked at how few people notice huge things like this, and there is barely a word said.

What is going on?

Edited by DaveShark on Sunday 18th April 22:51

[Pothole]

it's not that we don't notice, it's that we couldn't give a st....what do you suggest, grounding all commercial airliners? Good plan!

[Getragdogleg]

DaveShark said:

Ive also been watching the skies for a few years, as I have previously watched thos videos which claim the "Chemtrails" are some kind of HAARP conductor. Whilst I doubted this because of the scale of the operation I did not find any convincing reason why some planes left trails, and some disappeard in seconds, apart from perhaps a slight difference in altitude.

I was also aware that after 9/11 the grounding caused unusually clear skies, as normally the trail cause the clear blue sky to turn wispy white most days. I've watched the same happen here in the Somerset reigion (under a fair few flight paths), I really cannot remember a day that ended completely clear. Mornings, yes, but even by 7-8am, the sky is cris-crossed with trails. This latest grounding has really showed me what we have been missing. Conspiracy or not, it is pretty obvious to me that humanity and aircraft are causing duller/greyer skies. I'm not a believer in MMGW or MMCG, but I am shocked at how few people notice huge things like this, and there is barely a word said.

What is going on?

Edited by DaveShark on Sunday 18th April 22:51

Yep, disrupting as it may be I cannot help but enjoy the clear skies, down here in cornwall it seems that our air space is normally very crowded.

[DangerousMike]

if they put red smoke in their contrails it would at least look a bit cooler.

[Slyjoe]

I'll just leave this here:

[Pothole]

Slyjoe said:

I'll just leave this here:

see? without the planes we've had really boring sunsets here in Northamptonshire!