Discussion
gruffalo said:
techiedave said:
It is my opinion that in the leadership debate of last night Jo was the spiritual winner.
By not allowing her to participate she showed both labour and the Conservatives to be terrified of her and her parties appeal. This is not just a moral victory it is a true victory and one which will be recognised as such.
I thought it was ITV who did not allow her to join in as the show was billed as a leaders debate, as in the leader of the opposition and the leader of the government.By not allowing her to participate she showed both labour and the Conservatives to be terrified of her and her parties appeal. This is not just a moral victory it is a true victory and one which will be recognised as such.
V8covin said:
El stovey said:
We’ve both said we’ll probably vote Lib Dem. I’ve only ever voted conservatives in the past. Each election I weigh up the options and make a decision. I don’t automatically vote conservative, I might vote labour in future if they had a different leader or some more centrist policies. I still might even still vote conservative in this election.
That’s pretty much the definition of floating voter.
“nounBRITISH
noun: floating voter; plural noun: floating voters
a person who has not decided which way to vote in an election, or one who does not consistently vote for the same political party.
"the party leader stepped up his efforts to appeal to floating voters"”
Do your views change that much that 1 minute you align with the Tories and the next the Lib Dems, almost the polar opposite ?That’s pretty much the definition of floating voter.
“nounBRITISH
noun: floating voter; plural noun: floating voters
a person who has not decided which way to vote in an election, or one who does not consistently vote for the same political party.
"the party leader stepped up his efforts to appeal to floating voters"”
V8covin said:
Do your views change that much that 1 minute you align with the Tories and the next the Lib Dems, almost the polar opposite ?
They’re not the polar opposite at all. Only really in brexit but that’s not the main reason for everyone when voting, plenty of MPs have gone to the libdems from labour and the conservatives and if you’re a centrist conservative voter fed up with the direction the conservatives are going in and want to remain the libdems are perhaps the next best option.The libdems are nearer the conservatives than labour at the moment regarding the economy or taxation or social policies.
On the political spectrum from right to left we’ve got
brexit party, Conservative, libdem, labour, greens.
If you’re a centrist floating voter, the conservatives and libdems are probably the least extreme options.
This is how being a floating voter works, you’re not ideologically attached to a party. You just look around each election and make a decision. It’s like deciding what utility supplier to use or where to get your internet from.
Seems more sensible than following one party slavishly like a football team.
ETA conservatives and libdems least extreme options NOT conservatives and labour as I originally said by mistake.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 20th November 10:20
V8covin said:
El stovey said:
They’re not the polar opposite at all. Only really in brexit but that’s not the main reason for everyone when voting, plenty of MPs have gone to the libdems from labour and the conservatives and if you’re a centrist conservative voter fed up with the direction the conservatives are going in and want to remain the libdems are perhaps the next best option.
The libdems are nearer the conservatives than labour at the moment regarding the economy or taxation or social policies.
On the political spectrum from right to left we’ve got
brexit party, Conservative, libdem, labour, greens.
If you’re a centrist floating voter, the conservatives and labour are probably the least extreme options.
The way I vote is... .which party aligns most with my views.If there are none I simply won't vote.The libdems are nearer the conservatives than labour at the moment regarding the economy or taxation or social policies.
On the political spectrum from right to left we’ve got
brexit party, Conservative, libdem, labour, greens.
If you’re a centrist floating voter, the conservatives and labour are probably the least extreme options.
I realise the Brexit dilemma puts a different angle on that and if you are an ardent remainer the Libs are really your only choice
Ayahuasca said:
Is there any point in voting Lib Dem? Serious (ish) question.
I mean, you may feel the Lib Dem policies align with your own values, or you may dislike the two main parties (yes this is an England-centric post) and you may vote Lib Dem on that basis and I understand that.
But they will not form the government. Their handful of MPs will be relegated to jumping up and down and heckling from the sidelines. You will have lost the opportunity of influencing who runs the country. Those policies you agree with and like so much? They will never be implemented.
The best you can hope for is a hung parliament and some kind of leverage over the balance of power, which will see you steam-rollered by your bigger, stronger partner and forced to make compromises that go against your principles (see last time). Is that what it is all about?
Is a vote for the Lib Dem’s a mere protest vote, similar in effect (none) to a spoilt ballot?
If everyone thought like that, nothing would ever change. You just get safe seats and crap MPs parachuted into them who know little about your area. I mean, you may feel the Lib Dem policies align with your own values, or you may dislike the two main parties (yes this is an England-centric post) and you may vote Lib Dem on that basis and I understand that.
But they will not form the government. Their handful of MPs will be relegated to jumping up and down and heckling from the sidelines. You will have lost the opportunity of influencing who runs the country. Those policies you agree with and like so much? They will never be implemented.
The best you can hope for is a hung parliament and some kind of leverage over the balance of power, which will see you steam-rollered by your bigger, stronger partner and forced to make compromises that go against your principles (see last time). Is that what it is all about?
Is a vote for the Lib Dem’s a mere protest vote, similar in effect (none) to a spoilt ballot?
Because most people do vote like you’re suggesting we have our rubbish two party system with the parties bickering and lying and fighting over a few marginal seats.
People voting for the brexit party, despite them never winning a seat has probably influenced the Conservative party and likely also led to the brexit referendum.
Most of the polarisation on here is just tribal identity politics and wanting your team to win so you can gloat after an election or any other perceived win and rubbish the other side when they slip up or do anything you don’t like.
TheRealNoNeedy said:
We have people on here saying we should not take the piss out of Swinson for her looks
and yet the LibDum press office tweet this
I think the advert (if it is an advert) isn’t saying vote for her as she’s hot, they’re saying she might be an optimistic alternative to the same old grey men of the main parties. and yet the LibDum press office tweet this
Burwood said:
jsf said:
Its going to destroy commercial letting as no one will take the risk of building a new site if they will get stung with an extra tax just for owning the properties.
If they cant find a tenant or lose the current one it could bankrupt them.
Imagine the impact of that policy in a recession, farmers would be destroying their small units usually rented out on site, this will mean nop propeties when the upturn comes.
Its just a crazy idea for multiple reasons, as is their proprty taxes to replace council tax.
Rich wIf they cant find a tenant or lose the current one it could bankrupt them.
Imagine the impact of that policy in a recession, farmers would be destroying their small units usually rented out on site, this will mean nop propeties when the upturn comes.
Its just a crazy idea for multiple reasons, as is their proprty taxes to replace council tax.
kers problems, cry me a riverHuge numbers of SME's and startups rely on the small trading estates and units provided by small scale landlords and farmers who diversified to survive.
Take them out of the supply of available premises and you have a problem.
Lib dems are going to setup a database of anyone flying using your passport number, then ramp up a tax on the flight by more each time you fly. A flight to usa could cost over £1k in tax.
So guys like me, who tend to fly six times a year for work, are now going to get hammered on tax if i fancy a holiday.
My employer and therefore customer will get hammered with a higher bill to cover this extra tax.
fk that.
So guys like me, who tend to fly six times a year for work, are now going to get hammered on tax if i fancy a holiday.
My employer and therefore customer will get hammered with a higher bill to cover this extra tax.
f
k that.In understand tat Jo is considering lodging a complaint against Buckingham Palace and the Queen herself.
The UK's most important woman has accused the Queen of undermining her parties campaign launch.
The accusation is that the announcement of Prince Andrews withdrawal from public duties today has removed the median coverage the launch would have received.
The UK's most important woman has accused the Queen of undermining her parties campaign launch.
The accusation is that the announcement of Prince Andrews withdrawal from public duties today has removed the median coverage the launch would have received.
jsf said:
Lib dems are going to setup a database of anyone flying using your passport number, then ramp up a tax on the flight by more each time you fly. A flight to usa could cost over £1k in tax.
So guys like me, who tend to fly six times a year for work, are now going to get hammered on tax if i fancy a holiday.
My employer and therefore customer will get hammered with a higher bill to cover this extra tax.
fk that.
You had best hope that your details are not forwarded on to XR. So guys like me, who tend to fly six times a year for work, are now going to get hammered on tax if i fancy a holiday.
My employer and therefore customer will get hammered with a higher bill to cover this extra tax.
f
k that.George Smiley said:
Not far from Bridtpl, you two should have a pint in merthyr. I had the misfortune of being engaged to a class there, you'll love.
Pedo.https://youtu.be/XXMhny4JmtY
Robertj21a said:
A piece in The Times today by Iain Martin referring to 2005 when Swinson, age 25, won the seat for East Dunbartonshire.
'Her broad smile and highly confident speaking style created the impression that Swinson considered herself to be absolutely fantastic. Here, I thought, is a politician who will end up annoying voters'.
How very true.
They seem to be pinning a lot of hope on JS. It's not just the Lib Dems it's Jo Swinson's Lib Dem travelling show! 'Her broad smile and highly confident speaking style created the impression that Swinson considered herself to be absolutely fantastic. Here, I thought, is a politician who will end up annoying voters'.
How very true.
It's not just the message that the other parties are no good and that the Lib Dems are great, it's that the two old grey men are old grey men and Jo is a bright young thing.
A few points:
Either the Lib Dems think that JS really is a magic bullet and are making a monumental overestimation of public opinion of and desire for her.
Or the public are really longing for her and I don't understand the power of such things.
Or the Lib Dems are pinning it all on her with the knowledge that if it fails she can be blamed, she can be gone quickly and they can re-invent themselves yet again.
Tyre Smoke said:
She looks and acts like the Head Girl of a minor public school that's had too much coffee.
Some of you are sad, sad, dirty old men.
You mean we have fantasies about keeping it in and not withdrawing. About pressing on the button. And for the finale "shooting the squirrel"Some of you are sad, sad, dirty old men.
"we didn't get everything right"
I get it
Err yes
Vera Duckworth pretty much destroys her.
Only Prince Andrews interview was a bigger disaster. IMHO it's a career defining cockup.
She won't be attending the next years Liberal Democrat conference. Not just as leader but as an MP. She will lose the leadership and resign as an MP
She is toast.
I get it
Err yes
Vera Duckworth pretty much destroys her.
Only Prince Andrews interview was a bigger disaster. IMHO it's a career defining cockup.
She won't be attending the next years Liberal Democrat conference. Not just as leader but as an MP. She will lose the leadership and resign as an MP
She is toast.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 23 November 23:26
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:techiedave said:
"we didn't get everything right"
I get it
Err yes
Vera Duckworth pretty much destroys her.
Only Prince Andrews interview was a bigger disaster. IMHO it's a career defining cockup.
She won't be attending the next years Liberal Democrat conference. Not just as leader but as an MP. She will lose the leadership and resign as an MP
She is toast.
None of that would surprise me.I get it
Err yes
Vera Duckworth pretty much destroys her.
Only Prince Andrews interview was a bigger disaster. IMHO it's a career defining cockup.
She won't be attending the next years Liberal Democrat conference. Not just as leader but as an MP. She will lose the leadership and resign as an MP
She is toast.
I think her seat is held with a thin majority and that performance won't have helped her one little bit.
I said when they announced the leadership contest that it would have been interesting to see Layla Moran give it a go.
I expect some heads would explode
All the " I absolutely get it" opening replies became sad and repetitive. Her going off at tangents and doing the "well you know Jeremy Corbyn and Boris is that the best we have" response was terribly poor and ill judged. Her other comments about trying to blame things on others in her party (Ed Davey?) was shoddy.
To me she faced a hostile audience but how she dealt with it did her no favours at all.
2gins said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: She came across badly on Marr this morning too.
I had high hopes but I have to eat humble pie and say that so far they were misplaced and she's been poor both in presentation and any detail.
I'm getting a bit tired of this line "Boris and Farage stitching up a deal" line. When will someone remind her that is exactly what she did with Plaid and the Greens in Brecon & Radnorshire and is exactly the same game her party is playing in the GE too? The double standard doesn't play well at all.I had high hopes but I have to eat humble pie and say that so far they were misplaced and she's been poor both in presentation and any detail.
Compare and contrast
Jo Swinson
The problem I have with Jo is that she is stuck to be always on the defensive. This is a bit sad for her but its so much of her own making. Her initial wild and ludicrous next PM declaration is the biggest gaffe but there are many.
In just about all the recent interviews/ debates she is immediately on the defensive from the start. She comes across as wounded
Jeremy Corbyn
Full of promises and give aways for anything from Wasps to Bees (Ok not Bees but if the climate change body said we need to helkp Bees to survive he could magic up a few million to do it by taxing something or other. He may talk b
ks but he isn't on the defensiveNicola Sturgeon
- Can't stand her but she does come across well in interviews and debates she isn't put on the defensive maybe she isn't challenged enough but she comes across as strong
Boris Johnson - never seems defensive you get the impression he could blag his way out of being found with his todger in the make up girls lady garden just before the interview and he would blag out of it
Jo Swinson just seems always on the defensive and its not a nice quality to see
In past elections I have clocked incidents where I have thought that's a gamechanger both positive and negative
Neil Kinnock being way too cocky in 1992. You had to be around to get it but it was so over confident it was unreal
John Major and his daft as a brush soapbox oratory in 1992. The daft bugger actually engaged with people
Gordon Brown being caught off camera but on microphone chatting about "that racist woman". Then his race back with flowers or chocolates to say hey sorry - sad and damaging
Theresa May doing The One Show and being caught off guard about being naughty. A throw away answer but just made her appear completely out of touch. The dementia tax cock up destroyed her policies she destroyed herself
Jo Swinson's leadership debate appearance is right up there.
As I think another more eloquent poster than myself has said it's a career ending performance
The irony to me is that if things go as I suspect they will. She may have more ex Labour and Tories as her MP's than actual Liberal Democrats. And her relationship with Ed Davey must be pretty strained now
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