So what now for the Labour party?
Discussion
LetsTryAgain said:
Well I’m right wing and I’d nationalise the railways tomorrow.
But it’s far from a silly claim.
They ARE a left wing party.
They’re completely sold on our membership of the EU, which robs us of sovereignty.
They’re completely sold on the failed comprehensive education system experiment.
They’re egalitarian.
They’re against the traditional married family, which is the foundation of social and moral conservatism.
They’ve done nothing to reverse or undo the harm done by themselves and the Labour Party in the last 5 decades when it comes to the cultural and sexual revolution.
If you’re used to defending the Tories against claims of being too far right, you clearly spend some time arguing with half wits.
There's a certain amount of subjectivity in the definitions of left and right wing, but I suspect you're a little way outside the consensus. That is your right and privilege. As to your last point, the only place I argue about politics with people is on here But it’s far from a silly claim.
They ARE a left wing party.
They’re completely sold on our membership of the EU, which robs us of sovereignty.
They’re completely sold on the failed comprehensive education system experiment.
They’re egalitarian.
They’re against the traditional married family, which is the foundation of social and moral conservatism.
They’ve done nothing to reverse or undo the harm done by themselves and the Labour Party in the last 5 decades when it comes to the cultural and sexual revolution.
If you’re used to defending the Tories against claims of being too far right, you clearly spend some time arguing with half wits.
230TE said:
There's a certain amount of subjectivity in the definitions of left and right wing, but I suspect you're a little way outside the consensus. That is your right and privilege. As to your last point, the only place I argue about politics with people is on here
Congratulations.Don’t bother addressing a single point made to you.
230TE said:
Fair enough. In answer to your points:
1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. No
Are we done now? I have an engine to build up.
Nope. 1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. No
Are we done now? I have an engine to build up.
That’s not a response.
All those points I made apply to the Conservative party. Hence my assertion of its status as left wing.
You not agreeing isn’t the same as me being wrong.
If you wish to rebut, you’ll have to address them properly.
LetsTryAgain said:
Well I’m right wing and I’d nationalise the railways tomorrow.
But it’s far from a silly claim.
They ARE a left wing party.
They’re completely sold on our membership of the EU, which robs us of sovereignty.
They’re completely sold on the failed comprehensive education system experiment.
They’re egalitarian.
They’re against the traditional married family, which is the foundation of social and moral conservatism.
They’ve done nothing to reverse or undo the harm done by themselves and the Labour Party in the last 5 decades when it comes to the cultural and sexual revolution.
If you’re used to defending the Tories against claims of being too far right, you clearly spend some time arguing with half wits.
I'm late to this particular ball of fun but I don't actually understand what party you are claiming to be left left wing !! I don't actually recognise any paolitical party from your five point above ...But it’s far from a silly claim.
They ARE a left wing party.
They’re completely sold on our membership of the EU, which robs us of sovereignty.
They’re completely sold on the failed comprehensive education system experiment.
They’re egalitarian.
They’re against the traditional married family, which is the foundation of social and moral conservatism.
They’ve done nothing to reverse or undo the harm done by themselves and the Labour Party in the last 5 decades when it comes to the cultural and sexual revolution.
If you’re used to defending the Tories against claims of being too far right, you clearly spend some time arguing with half wits.
But if you think the cultural and sexual "revolution" that's been happening since the 60s has caused genuine widespread harm then I don't actually give a toss what you think anyway
And the Labour party clearly needs to find a different version of "left" to get elected and if they can't get elected then there is not much point them pretending to be the opposition. Maybe "left" just doesn't work any more in the old definitions but I suspect that any party that ticked all of your boxes would be unelectable as well.
LetsTryAgain said:
Nope.
That’s not a response.
All those points I made apply to the Conservative party. Hence my assertion of its status as left wing.
You not agreeing isn’t the same as me being wrong.
If you wish to rebut, you’ll have to address them properly.
Er. My learned friend seem lost. That’s not a response.
All those points I made apply to the Conservative party. Hence my assertion of its status as left wing.
You not agreeing isn’t the same as me being wrong.
If you wish to rebut, you’ll have to address them properly.
LetsTryAgain said:
Nope.
That’s not a response.
All those points I made apply to the Conservative party. Hence my assertion of its status as left wing.
You not agreeing isn’t the same as me being wrong.
If you wish to rebut, you’ll have to address them properly.
It’s not really a right or wrong thing, it’s about how you view the political spectrum.That’s not a response.
All those points I made apply to the Conservative party. Hence my assertion of its status as left wing.
You not agreeing isn’t the same as me being wrong.
If you wish to rebut, you’ll have to address them properly.
You sound quite right wing so relative to you, the conservatives look left.
Perhaps the conservatives on a global scale are left or centre left but in U.K. politics I would say it’s difficult to tell at the moment but their spending policies all look at least centrist.
I think though if you come on here and say the conservatives are left wing, most people will disagree.
LetsTryAgain said:
Well I’m right wing and I’d nationalise the railways tomorrow.
But it’s far from a silly claim.
They ARE a left wing party.
They’re completely sold on our membership of the EU, which robs us of sovereignty.
They’re completely sold on the failed comprehensive education system experiment.
They’re egalitarian.
They’re against the traditional married family, which is the foundation of social and moral conservatism.
They’ve done nothing to reverse or undo the harm done by themselves and the Labour Party in the last 5 decades when it comes to the cultural and sexual revolution.
If you’re used to defending the Tories against claims of being too far right, you clearly spend some time arguing with half wits.
You are Jacob Rees Mogg AICMFP.But it’s far from a silly claim.
They ARE a left wing party.
They’re completely sold on our membership of the EU, which robs us of sovereignty.
They’re completely sold on the failed comprehensive education system experiment.
They’re egalitarian.
They’re against the traditional married family, which is the foundation of social and moral conservatism.
They’ve done nothing to reverse or undo the harm done by themselves and the Labour Party in the last 5 decades when it comes to the cultural and sexual revolution.
If you’re used to defending the Tories against claims of being too far right, you clearly spend some time arguing with half wits.
Well they seem to be getting a lot of air time (mostly on BBC) presenting their various versions of what went wrong.
Heard part of an interview with Old MacDonnell where they (pollster types) had gone out to some of the so called safe labour seats that had switched and the reasons were something like 30% Brexit, 46% Corbyn, but McDonnell was still insisting it was mainly due to Brexit.
They will continue to listen to their own supporter focus groups in Islington, Jarrow or wherever and continue insisting that their policies were popular, blah, blah.
What they really need to do is get out into some of the Tory seats and ask why everyone hates Labour.
Heard part of an interview with Old MacDonnell where they (pollster types) had gone out to some of the so called safe labour seats that had switched and the reasons were something like 30% Brexit, 46% Corbyn, but McDonnell was still insisting it was mainly due to Brexit.
They will continue to listen to their own supporter focus groups in Islington, Jarrow or wherever and continue insisting that their policies were popular, blah, blah.
What they really need to do is get out into some of the Tory seats and ask why everyone hates Labour.
plasticpig said:
LetsTryAgain said:
Well I’m right wing and I’d nationalise the railways tomorrow.
But it’s far from a silly claim.
They ARE a left wing party.
They’re completely sold on our membership of the EU, which robs us of sovereignty.
They’re completely sold on the failed comprehensive education system experiment.
They’re egalitarian.
They’re against the traditional married family, which is the foundation of social and moral conservatism.
They’ve done nothing to reverse or undo the harm done by themselves and the Labour Party in the last 5 decades when it comes to the cultural and sexual revolution.
If you’re used to defending the Tories against claims of being too far right, you clearly spend some time arguing with half wits.
You are Jacob Rees Mogg AICMFP.But it’s far from a silly claim.
They ARE a left wing party.
They’re completely sold on our membership of the EU, which robs us of sovereignty.
They’re completely sold on the failed comprehensive education system experiment.
They’re egalitarian.
They’re against the traditional married family, which is the foundation of social and moral conservatism.
They’ve done nothing to reverse or undo the harm done by themselves and the Labour Party in the last 5 decades when it comes to the cultural and sexual revolution.
If you’re used to defending the Tories against claims of being too far right, you clearly spend some time arguing with half wits.
PlasticPig has nailed this completely - the egalitarian thing was the give away and LTA clearly pines for the days when the hoi-polloi didn't get a vote.
Anyway ... back to the Labour party ...
Johnnytheboy said:
Mothersruin said:
I keep hearing, 'we won the arguement but couldn't convert it to votes'. How dumb are these people?
If you won the argument you'd have got the votes.Or at least that's my understanding of democracy.
Metaphorically speaking, that's exactly the position the Labour party found itself in at this election.
From the BBC "The general secretary of Labour has written to the National Executive Committee (NEC), the party’s ruling body, saying that Jeremy Corbyn would like a new leader to be in place by the end of March."
Now that one sentence sums up all that is wrong with the Labour party. Why the hell is anyone concerned with what Jeremy Corbyn would like. Why are they listening to him. Why, if he did not resign, does he not just get sacked.
It's like a failed football manager being allowed to express a preference on who his replacement is and when he'd like it to happen.
Now that one sentence sums up all that is wrong with the Labour party. Why the hell is anyone concerned with what Jeremy Corbyn would like. Why are they listening to him. Why, if he did not resign, does he not just get sacked.
It's like a failed football manager being allowed to express a preference on who his replacement is and when he'd like it to happen.
i4got said:
From the BBC "The general secretary of Labour has written to the National Executive Committee (NEC), the party’s ruling body, saying that Jeremy Corbyn would like a new leader to be in place by the end of March."
Now that one sentence sums up all that is wrong with the Labour party. Why the hell is anyone concerned with what Jeremy Corbyn would like. Why are they listening to him. Why, if he did not resign, does he not just get sacked.
It's like a failed football manager being allowed to express a preference on who his replacement is and when he'd like it to happen.
Didn't the PLP try to get rid of him once and failed - he's like a turd that won't flush Now that one sentence sums up all that is wrong with the Labour party. Why the hell is anyone concerned with what Jeremy Corbyn would like. Why are they listening to him. Why, if he did not resign, does he not just get sacked.
It's like a failed football manager being allowed to express a preference on who his replacement is and when he'd like it to happen.
Hereward said:
If only Labour had a deputy leader to hand over to at this time...
lol. Would Tom Watson have got the job had he still been around? Probably would have been Labour's best chance, but he wouldn't have got it, after all Momentum tried very hard to get rid of him around Conference time so clearly didn't like him.I keep wondering about Ronald McDonnell's "resignation". He's been very visibly meek and apologetic all weekend. I wonder if he is aligning himself to stay as Shadow Chancellor (or Momentum have told him to pretend to resign but stay put). I wouldn't be surprised if he never leaves the position, as it's clearly going to be a few months before Corbyn 2.0 (female version) is found and elected, so his plan is to slink into the shadows and then "be asked really strongly by the new leader to return". I'm not sure who else they've got to put up as Shadow Chancellor anyway.
i4got said:
From the BBC "The general secretary of Labour has written to the National Executive Committee (NEC), the party’s ruling body, saying that Jeremy Corbyn would like a new leader to be in place by the end of March."
Now that one sentence sums up all that is wrong with the Labour party. Why the hell is anyone concerned with what Jeremy Corbyn would like. Why are they listening to him. Why, if he did not resign, does he not just get sacked.
It's like a failed football manager being allowed to express a preference on who his replacement is and when he'd like it to happen.
It's not always a bad idea, Michael Howard's protracted exit allowed the Tories to revitalise themselves and ultimately led to election victory under Cameron. However the Labour party's internal workings are very different and unlikely to give them this opportunity. Now that one sentence sums up all that is wrong with the Labour party. Why the hell is anyone concerned with what Jeremy Corbyn would like. Why are they listening to him. Why, if he did not resign, does he not just get sacked.
It's like a failed football manager being allowed to express a preference on who his replacement is and when he'd like it to happen.
Local elections are set for 7th May 2020, and a new leader just before that might give them a boost. But it's also quite possible that they might still be trying to choose a new leader on polling day.
Dr Jekyll said:
El stovey said:
In reality though, even on a recent U.K historic scale, it’s much less monumental than the global financial crisis or Blair’s victory in 97 or the suez crisis or black Wednesday (when interest rates went up to 15%) or the Cuban missile crisis or the falklands war or the gulf war or the Profumo affair or the Thatcher years etc. etc.
It's more significant than Blair's victory or black Wednesday. Much more so than the Profumo scandal.I'd say it's like the 79 and 83 elections rolled into one. Andrew Neil was scathing about comparisons with the fall of the Berlin wall but I don't think they are that far fetched. The UK public have been given a choice between capitalism and hard left socialism and made their choice abundantly clear. It's going to be very difficult for the commies to come back from this, or even understand what's happened.
The Thatcher years were of major influence to this country, certainly as much as Atlee. No other PMs changed society as much or for longer.
Now, though, we have brexit. The most significant political step this country has made in years, and much more so that joining. If its fallout destroys the labour party as a major political force in this country, and it is possible, if unlikely, then it will be significant. It needs careful handling by the party, but I don’t think they’ve got the ability to pull it off.
If, as possible, they move more to the left, then more will abandon them. With such a vacuum in the middle, either the tories will move more to the right or a new party/existing one will start to enlarge and take the middle ground.
If, and it is possible, if unlikely, Johnson opts for a hard brexit, we will be in the middle of the financial fallout at the next elections, no longer than 5 years and a few months’ time. It will need careful handling by the tory party, but the divisions are deep. Most don’t want a hard brexit. Johnson doesn’t want a hard brexit. There will be blood.
It’s going to be interesting. It’s going to be written about, by those who will suggest they saw it coming.
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