Discussion
MarshPhantom said:
otolith said:
The only difference now is that there are relatively few people who remember why the public (even the working class public, outside of those areas with pretend "industries") so strongly supported those reforms.
Because those with the money had the chance make a fast buck thanks to underpriced shares?Perhaps his views are not quite as extreme/left as suggested......(I know little of him, and personally am a bit more "capitalist" than "socialist")
This article surprised me, a number of credible economists suggest his views are "mainstream"
Link to sky article about him winning backing from 40 economists.
http://news.sky.com/story/1540216/corbyn-wins-back...
This article surprised me, a number of credible economists suggest his views are "mainstream"
Link to sky article about him winning backing from 40 economists.
http://news.sky.com/story/1540216/corbyn-wins-back...
Wilmslowboy said:
Perhaps his views are not quite as extreme/left as suggested......(I know little of him, and personally am a bit more "capitalist" than "socialist")
This article surprised me, a number of credible economists suggest his views are "mainstream"
Link to sky article about him winning backing from 40 economists.
http://news.sky.com/story/1540216/corbyn-wins-back...
Probably the same economists who hailed Gordon Brown and his 'economic miracle'. fThis article surprised me, a number of credible economists suggest his views are "mainstream"
Link to sky article about him winning backing from 40 economists.
http://news.sky.com/story/1540216/corbyn-wins-back...
k me was that a painful essay to write 
Wilmslowboy said:
Perhaps his views are not quite as extreme/left as suggested......(I know little of him, and personally am a bit more "capitalist" than "socialist")
This article surprised me, a number of credible economists suggest his views are "mainstream"
Link to sky article about him winning backing from 40 economists.
http://news.sky.com/story/1540216/corbyn-wins-back...
How many economists are there? If there are only 40 then I'd be impressed but if there are 10,000 then the figure is a little less impressive. Pointless headline IMO.This article surprised me, a number of credible economists suggest his views are "mainstream"
Link to sky article about him winning backing from 40 economists.
http://news.sky.com/story/1540216/corbyn-wins-back...
Tycho said:
How many economists are there? If there are only 40 then I'd be impressed but if there are 10,000 then the figure is a little less impressive. Pointless headline IMO.
Yup. No doubt his supporters will point to this and say he's got it nailed economically wise. All we need is a lot more economists to say his policies are economic suicide and all will be well again.Smollet said:
Tycho said:
How many economists are there? If there are only 40 then I'd be impressed but if there are 10,000 then the figure is a little less impressive. Pointless headline IMO.
Yup. No doubt his supporters will point to this and say he's got it nailed economically wise. All we need is a lot more economists to say his policies are economic suicide and all will be well again.
on the Today programme gave Corbyn's economics guru an easy ride this morning.Tycho said:
How many economists are there? If there are only 40 then I'd be impressed but if there are 10,000 then the figure is a little less impressive. Pointless headline IMO.
I think they have said that one aspect of his programme is mainstream economics- that of anti-austerity and, when recovering from a recession (not 5 years or so afterwards) they probably have a point.
Britain doesn't do anything. The economy IS going to go down the pan. Sure, there are farmers with solar panels and people with niche services which will be ok, but on the whole, there isn't enough work to support all these people having a nice life. No amount of Farage, Cameron or Corbyn is going to alter this one bit.
We polish each other's dogs, we do super clever things in the city of London....next year we're going to close the last coal mine in the North of England. Brilliant. So, UK coal is too expensive, even though the island is made out of a lot of it. Why is this? Cost of living.....financiers and the government have allowed a massive property bubble to develop, so the GDP stats look good. Plus, if you make as many people graft as long as possible, that means you can skim some off. Forget retiring at 55! In fact, forget retiring at 70.
It doesn't matter if Corbyn gets in, or whether George's economic plan somehow finds a new way of creating money....like alchemy through smoke and mirrors.
We have more debt and more debt and more debt and more debt and George tells us that he's "dealing with the deficit" and Cameron puts his serious sucky-lips face on and we all believe him....markets respond positively. We then have Carney say "I'm about to put interest rates up" markets respond positively.
What we do in the UK reminds me of that old analogy....the chap goes to an Alpine village.....what does your economy consist of? "We do the laundry of the next village". He goes to the next village and says "what's your economy based on?" "We do the laundry of the next village". Meanwhile, the government give everyone a nice life on the credit card. No flaw in that, is there? Markets respond positively.
Britain is like one giant great big Merthyr Tydfil. There may be a few wideboys driving rangerovers by supplying each other with home grown gange, but most people are on the take.....Who are the actual net contributors?
Look at immigration.....forget the hoardes of goat farmers....we can forget them and add them to the "net drain" pile, look who's leaving and the quality of them. You have hot shot young people leaving. I've got a mate who has left the UK to go mining in Australia.... Despite the recent RECORD price of Tin, Cornwall couldn't even get the first prospect off the ground. Meanwhile, shysters bought and sold shares of those companies in the city....markets responded positively. It's all based on BS.
The more I look at things (I am a couple of years into a startup company and we're getting there now) the more I see those who are clearly "haves" and those who "don't have a hope in hell". There are a few people who have got on the "haves" by the skin of their teeth. Usually poky little barratt box and mountains of debt. Students leaving university don't have a hope in hell. I witness some of my chums get hired by the family firms and some of the other's get in via other nepotistic routes. My teaching experience showed this to a shocking level. Sure, there are a few people you can cite who get very lucky, but the most are consigned to a festering pile which is accumulating. Markets responded positively.
I realise that there is a situation which has to be managed here. The economy based on industry and growth has finished and we are in a weird sort of transition period where a load of people hold the cards and a load of others are queueing to be a part of the game. How this economy emerges and what form it takes is going to be very interesting indeed. The people holding the cards (including our glorious leaders) are keen that we maintain this present game, however it is unsustainable and is loading up the very structure of it.
Politics is about to get more interesting, as the strain affects more people and more people have something to say about it. (Better join the United States of Germany before something really horrible happens.....like Farage or Corbyn or Corbage get elected)
There are a few options for emerging politics.
UKIP on N20. "Get all the fuzzie wuzzies and throw them into the sea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Corbyn-turbo-lefty. "Take all the rich bankers and everyone who has money, (but not my family) and give it to all these poor deserving people"
If our fuzzie wuzzies in the above case include all of the non-haves. Think renters, think fresh students, think immigrants, think failed to get job at daddies firm. There are a lot of them and they are not going to take kindly to being thrown in the sea. This puts pressure on the lefty-outcome, which is bad news for anyone who has anything to be taxed/appropriated or fancies a clear shot at the money tree. (exiting stuff). Then there's the whole psychology of motivation. I, for instance am in business, because I am totally and utterly unemployable in my area and my only motivation to run a business is that I think I can be "a have" by bloody hard work. If Corbyn is going to alter the taxes on companies, raise various thresholds and make the rewards of being a director less appealing.....Urrrr George, leave Jeremy's work to Jeremy! perhaps people won't bother.
Down here, it appears that Cornwall, whilst being made of a lot of minerals, surrounded by fish and topped by farmland has decided that sustainable economic policy means building another 47000 houses. We are running out of road/water and sewage facilities down here....someone better tell the planning office! I don't know where these people are going to work. Perhaps they can all polish each other's dogs. Either way, it's a mess and when the whole thing finally descends into some sort of dystopian civil war, all will be well in Chipping Norton and the other places where our glorious leaders live.
I wonder if they'd all like to escape to New Zealand. That's a bit like England before the political class f cked it up.
I'm quite keen on taking ALL of their passports and making them live in the midst of the mess they have caused. I quite like the thought of David Cameron getting roughed up (permanently) by a crack dealing somalian in Bristol. They are quite frightening (I spent some time living in Brizzol)
It doesn't matter if Corbyn gets elected, or Farage gets 100% of the votes. The mildew has gone right around the stem and attention now needs to be turned to managing the collapse of the plant in a controlled manner, rather than deluding ourselves all is fine. Our glorious leaders are basically variations on a theme and if anything a bit far from the status quo (the directions the haves want to take) they will probably meet a sticky end.
It's all a bit of a sideshow before Chukka comes out, puts his sandwich down before saving us from lefty hell.
We polish each other's dogs, we do super clever things in the city of London....next year we're going to close the last coal mine in the North of England. Brilliant. So, UK coal is too expensive, even though the island is made out of a lot of it. Why is this? Cost of living.....financiers and the government have allowed a massive property bubble to develop, so the GDP stats look good. Plus, if you make as many people graft as long as possible, that means you can skim some off. Forget retiring at 55! In fact, forget retiring at 70.
It doesn't matter if Corbyn gets in, or whether George's economic plan somehow finds a new way of creating money....like alchemy through smoke and mirrors.
We have more debt and more debt and more debt and more debt and George tells us that he's "dealing with the deficit" and Cameron puts his serious sucky-lips face on and we all believe him....markets respond positively. We then have Carney say "I'm about to put interest rates up" markets respond positively.
What we do in the UK reminds me of that old analogy....the chap goes to an Alpine village.....what does your economy consist of? "We do the laundry of the next village". He goes to the next village and says "what's your economy based on?" "We do the laundry of the next village". Meanwhile, the government give everyone a nice life on the credit card. No flaw in that, is there? Markets respond positively.
Britain is like one giant great big Merthyr Tydfil. There may be a few wideboys driving rangerovers by supplying each other with home grown gange, but most people are on the take.....Who are the actual net contributors?
Look at immigration.....forget the hoardes of goat farmers....we can forget them and add them to the "net drain" pile, look who's leaving and the quality of them. You have hot shot young people leaving. I've got a mate who has left the UK to go mining in Australia.... Despite the recent RECORD price of Tin, Cornwall couldn't even get the first prospect off the ground. Meanwhile, shysters bought and sold shares of those companies in the city....markets responded positively. It's all based on BS.
The more I look at things (I am a couple of years into a startup company and we're getting there now) the more I see those who are clearly "haves" and those who "don't have a hope in hell". There are a few people who have got on the "haves" by the skin of their teeth. Usually poky little barratt box and mountains of debt. Students leaving university don't have a hope in hell. I witness some of my chums get hired by the family firms and some of the other's get in via other nepotistic routes. My teaching experience showed this to a shocking level. Sure, there are a few people you can cite who get very lucky, but the most are consigned to a festering pile which is accumulating. Markets responded positively.
I realise that there is a situation which has to be managed here. The economy based on industry and growth has finished and we are in a weird sort of transition period where a load of people hold the cards and a load of others are queueing to be a part of the game. How this economy emerges and what form it takes is going to be very interesting indeed. The people holding the cards (including our glorious leaders) are keen that we maintain this present game, however it is unsustainable and is loading up the very structure of it.
Politics is about to get more interesting, as the strain affects more people and more people have something to say about it. (Better join the United States of Germany before something really horrible happens.....like Farage or Corbyn or Corbage get elected)
There are a few options for emerging politics.
UKIP on N20. "Get all the fuzzie wuzzies and throw them into the sea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Corbyn-turbo-lefty. "Take all the rich bankers and everyone who has money, (but not my family) and give it to all these poor deserving people"
If our fuzzie wuzzies in the above case include all of the non-haves. Think renters, think fresh students, think immigrants, think failed to get job at daddies firm. There are a lot of them and they are not going to take kindly to being thrown in the sea. This puts pressure on the lefty-outcome, which is bad news for anyone who has anything to be taxed/appropriated or fancies a clear shot at the money tree. (exiting stuff). Then there's the whole psychology of motivation. I, for instance am in business, because I am totally and utterly unemployable in my area and my only motivation to run a business is that I think I can be "a have" by bloody hard work. If Corbyn is going to alter the taxes on companies, raise various thresholds and make the rewards of being a director less appealing.....Urrrr George, leave Jeremy's work to Jeremy! perhaps people won't bother.
Down here, it appears that Cornwall, whilst being made of a lot of minerals, surrounded by fish and topped by farmland has decided that sustainable economic policy means building another 47000 houses. We are running out of road/water and sewage facilities down here....someone better tell the planning office! I don't know where these people are going to work. Perhaps they can all polish each other's dogs. Either way, it's a mess and when the whole thing finally descends into some sort of dystopian civil war, all will be well in Chipping Norton and the other places where our glorious leaders live.
I wonder if they'd all like to escape to New Zealand. That's a bit like England before the political class f cked it up.
I'm quite keen on taking ALL of their passports and making them live in the midst of the mess they have caused. I quite like the thought of David Cameron getting roughed up (permanently) by a crack dealing somalian in Bristol. They are quite frightening (I spent some time living in Brizzol)
It doesn't matter if Corbyn gets elected, or Farage gets 100% of the votes. The mildew has gone right around the stem and attention now needs to be turned to managing the collapse of the plant in a controlled manner, rather than deluding ourselves all is fine. Our glorious leaders are basically variations on a theme and if anything a bit far from the status quo (the directions the haves want to take) they will probably meet a sticky end.
It's all a bit of a sideshow before Chukka comes out, puts his sandwich down before saving us from lefty hell.
Axionknight said:
Wow, I suddenly feel very depressed.
Pass the rope, I'm going for a swing.
It's not that bad, Britain is a cracking place, full of history, amazing and varied scenery and it's great. However, if you are about to leave school, your prospects are very very poor indeed, compared to how they were. Pass the rope, I'm going for a swing.
When I say prospects, I mean get a job of some sort, take on a debt to buy a typical worker house, have a family and enough money to run a 10 year old car.
We've had a victory for the status quo, in terms of Scotland NO and the blue ties bit of LIBLABCON winning. However, there is a massive tide building up behind the dyke, in the form of people who want to see some sort of change, whether it's another hitler, or chairman mao. We just want something which isn't more and more self-serving
s like shiny faced dave and his team of bullingdon chums doing lots of very cheap talk. I'm a 'kipper, but given the choice, I'd choose Corbyn over Cameron....purely because when it comes to the crunch, Cameron will slit all of your throats to keep his chums in clover. At least Corbyn appears to have some sort of integrity....even if it is foolish, romantic lefty nonsense integrity. That is better than none.
I think (and hope) Britain has had enough of the usual political class come 2020, but by then, I imagine small print in the treaties will mean we are a has been country and are merely a province of the United States of Germany.
Prince Philip said:
COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLst
Just because YOU dont do anything, or dont contribute anything, do not assume the rest of the Uk. There are MANY examples in many sectors where we do a lot. Lets take the car industry. We have british owned car companies. Our factories, chosen by overseas investors as the best location are some of the most effecient in the world. One factory in Sunderland produces more vehicles then the whole of the Italian car industry.tThere would be no global motorsport without british engineers, designers, technology. I could go on. I really shouldn't need to.
williamp said:
Just because YOU dont do anything, or dont contribute anything, do not assume the rest of the Uk. There are MANY examples in many sectors where we do a lot. Lets take the car industry. We have british owned car companies. Our factories, chosen by overseas investors as the best location are some of the most effecient in the world. One factory in Sunderland produces more vehicles then the whole of the Italian car industry.
There would be no global motorsport without british engineers, designers, technology. I could go on. I really shouldn't need to.
There would be no global motorsport without british engineers, designers, technology. I could go on. I really shouldn't need to.
I run a technical services company and we are at the cutting edge of our game. However, in an economic sense, I am basically polishing someone's dog. I do alright, but it's nothing to base an economy on. If the property market crashes, we are basically toast.
You cite lots of super duper industry. Are these growing with population? Are these paying more money relative to the cost of living? If this is not the case, it's a part of the bigger problem.
The fact of the matter is that jobs are being mechanised and outsourced, as the population grows. It's all well and good to have a firm which makes lots of widgets, but it needs to grow, sell more, make more in order to underpin sustainable growth....OR you need a climate which allows more of these non-growing firms to exist.
The fact that the government has a problem with it's credit card is enough evidence for me that they can't manage the country.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff