CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 3)
Discussion
RSTurboPaul said:
sambucket said:
RSTurboPaul said:
I don't think I've spoken to a single person that 'doesn't mind' wearing a mask and 'feels more comfortable'. Most people I have spoken to have said they dread it being compulsory and probably won't go into the shops.
The couple of times I've had to wear it (medical procedure and opticians) it has been stifling and I have ripped it off the second I could.
The couple of times I've had to wear it (medical procedure and opticians) it has been stifling and I have ripped it off the second I could.
Sure but your friends are probably not representative of the average UK shopper who is scared of COVID.
f someone is terrified of catching covid, they will feel more comfortable shopping if everyone else is wearing a mask. And if wearing a mask themselves is a condition of entry, they are more likely to feel comfortable with that condition, if they are not in the minority. Given the choice they would probably not wear the mask in exchange for not looking silly, as terrified as they are, vanity comes first.
Why not have it so that those who are scared (or are vulnerable) can wear masks if they want, to feel like they are 'protecting' themselves, and everyone else can use their own judgement?
This position that we must all cater for the lowest common denominator, rather than uplifting those at the bottom, is dragging society down.
I'm not sure you can speak for the nation of 'average UK shoppers'. My mother most certainly is not a 'tin foil hat conspiracy theorist' or a raging sociopath, and neither are her friends, yet mask wearing is not something attractive to them.
The Spruce Goose said:
ORD said:
There’s no credible argument for anything but opening up as fast as possible. It’s insane that it’s taking us months and months. By the time it’s normal again, we’ll
be into the flu season.
Utterly moronic approach.
survivalist said:
I see a lot of talk about cases, but what about deaths? Are they increasing in America? If not, is it case of time lag? Or that those who are infected aren’t vulnerable to the disease?
Good question. At the moment it looks like time lag. Roughly 2 weeks from infection to death seems to be normal, so this week will give us a better idea. As you say, if 100,000 people are getting it then recovering just fine its not as much of an issue. survivalist said:
I see a lot of talk about cases, but what about deaths? Are they increasing in America? If not, is it case of time lag? Or that those who are infected aren’t vulnerable to the disease?
only way is amount of people in ICUS, it is not uncommon for people to be in them for months.i think Florida ICUs maxed out now, it is looking very grim for the USA and they wanted to open quickly.
Condi said:
survivalist said:
I see a lot of talk about cases, but what about deaths? Are they increasing in America? If not, is it case of time lag? Or that those who are infected aren’t vulnerable to the disease?
Good question. At the moment it looks like time lag. Roughly 2 weeks from infection to death seems to be normal, so this week will give us a better idea. As you say, if 100,000 people are getting it then recovering just fine its not as much of an issue. It’s an interesting and very relevant point though. Lots of stuff in the news about the fruit pickers in Herefordshire contracting Covid 19, but it seems they are just isolating currently. If none are hospitalised then it’s not a massive issue unless they are in contact with the vulnerable (unlikely).
survivalist said:
I see a lot of talk about cases, but what about deaths? Are they increasing in America? If not, is it case of time lag? Or that those who are infected aren’t vulnerable to the disease?
There are quite a few different situations in America. Some states maintained a more strict lockdown, some maintained social distancing, and some opened straight back up as normal.Those states which opened back as normal have seen a very large increase in cases. There are way more tests being completed now, so that explains part of the increase. However, the increasing % of positive tests suggested there is also a large increase in the infection rate.
Many of these new infections are in younger age groups, so the vast majority are unaffected. However, we are starting see an increase in deaths from those states which opened back up e.g. Texas and Florida.
https://www.google.com/search?q=florida+covid+deat...
https://www.google.com/search?q=texas+covid+deaths
The Spruce Goose said:
survivalist said:
I see a lot of talk about cases, but what about deaths? Are they increasing in America? If not, is it case of time lag? Or that those who are infected aren’t vulnerable to the disease?
only way is amount of people in ICUS, it is not uncommon for people to be in them for months.i think Florida ICUs maxed out now, it is looking very grim for the USA and they wanted to open quickly.
The USA is grim if you’re poor. Imagine more so than ever at the moment. The problem is if you’re poor under lock down you are most likely balancing working to pay for rent and food against getting the virus .
Condi said:
survivalist said:
I see a lot of talk about cases, but what about deaths? Are they increasing in America? If not, is it case of time lag? Or that those who are infected aren’t vulnerable to the disease?
Good question. At the moment it looks like time lag. Roughly 2 weeks from infection to death seems to be normal, so this week will give us a better idea. As you say, if 100,000 people are getting it then recovering just fine its not as much of an issue. 
EddieSteadyGo said:
Those states which opened back as normal have seen a very large increase in cases. There are way more tests being completed now, so that explains part of the increase. However, the increasing % of positive tests suggested there is also a large increase in the infection rate.
Sadly it looks like the positive % rate is getting gamed in FL:https://alachuachronicle.com/covid-test-positivity...
Everything in the US is about Nov 3rd now.
The Spruce Goose said:
only way is amount of people in ICUS, it is not uncommon for people to be in them for months.
i think Florida ICUs maxed out now, it is looking very grim for the USA and they wanted to open quickly.
ICU capacity can be flexed. And there are lots of states who can help. i think Florida ICUs maxed out now, it is looking very grim for the USA and they wanted to open quickly.
The situation for the US isn't homogeneous - different states have different policies.
What I think we can say with certainty is that covid hasn't burnt out or gone away. If you remove social distancing and allow large groups, it surges back quickly.
I've said it a few times now, but if we look at the current rules applied in Sweden, that shows the type of measures required to keep R<1. Masks are only the answer if you don't want to do social distancing imo.
grumbledoak said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
Those states which opened back as normal have seen a very large increase in cases. There are way more tests being completed now, so that explains part of the increase. However, the increasing % of positive tests suggested there is also a large increase in the infection rate.
Sadly it looks like the positive % rate is getting gamed in FL:https://alachuachronicle.com/covid-test-positivity...
Everything in the US is about Nov 3rd now.
Andy888 said:
Alucidnation said:
Kids are pretty resilient and I suspect most of them loved the home schooling.
You suspect wrongly. They’re also very sociable characters and thrive and learn from being in the company of others of all ages. Home schooling has been a farce. There was very little schooling about it. No extra curricular stuff obviously and an effort to meet up with friends. A pivotal moment in a young persons life turned into a world of stress.
The people responsible for it should be ashamed.
EddieSteadyGo said:
grumbledoak said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
Those states which opened back as normal have seen a very large increase in cases. There are way more tests being completed now, so that explains part of the increase. However, the increasing % of positive tests suggested there is also a large increase in the infection rate.
Sadly it looks like the positive % rate is getting gamed in FL:https://alachuachronicle.com/covid-test-positivity...
Everything in the US is about Nov 3rd now.
That excludes the concept of inconclusive test results, which should also be declared.
sambucket said:
RSTurboPaul said:
I don't think I've spoken to a single person that 'doesn't mind' wearing a mask and 'feels more comfortable'. Most people I have spoken to have said they dread it being compulsory and probably won't go into the shops.
The couple of times I've had to wear it (medical procedure and opticians) it has been stifling and I have ripped it off the second I could.
The couple of times I've had to wear it (medical procedure and opticians) it has been stifling and I have ripped it off the second I could.
Sure but your friends are probably not representative of the average UK shopper who is scared of COVID.
f someone is terrified of catching covid, they will feel more comfortable shopping if everyone else is wearing a mask. And if wearing a mask themselves is a condition of entry, they are more likely to feel comfortable with that condition, if they are not in the minority. Given the choice they would probably not wear the mask in exchange for not looking silly, as terrified as they are, vanity comes first.
So people are scared of COVID, but they won’t wear a mask because they are more scared that they will look silly. You want everyone to wear a mask to make them feel less self conscious?
Anyone who genuinely feels that COVID is going to kill them, but are more bothered about appearance than safety is a f
king idiot.I’m now wondering what you will come up with next?
Elysium said:
The level of logical acrobatics required to come to that conclusion is quite something.
So people are scared of COVID, but they won’t wear a mask because they are more scared that they will look silly. You want everyone to wear a mask to make them feel less self conscious?
Anyone who genuinely feels that COVID is going to kill them, but are more bothered about appearance than safety is a fking idiot.
I’m now wondering what you will come up with next?
Probably he will claim he isn't following any of the covid rules himself (including wearing a mask) and will claim he likes taking drugs. Or maybe that was last week's boast....So people are scared of COVID, but they won’t wear a mask because they are more scared that they will look silly. You want everyone to wear a mask to make them feel less self conscious?
Anyone who genuinely feels that COVID is going to kill them, but are more bothered about appearance than safety is a f
king idiot.I’m now wondering what you will come up with next?
EddieSteadyGo said:
Elysium said:
The level of logical acrobatics required to come to that conclusion is quite something.
So people are scared of COVID, but they won’t wear a mask because they are more scared that they will look silly. You want everyone to wear a mask to make them feel less self conscious?
Anyone who genuinely feels that COVID is going to kill them, but are more bothered about appearance than safety is a fking idiot.
I’m now wondering what you will come up with next?
Probably he will claim he isn't following any of the covid rules himself (including wearing a mask) and will claim he likes taking drugs. Or maybe that was last week's boast....So people are scared of COVID, but they won’t wear a mask because they are more scared that they will look silly. You want everyone to wear a mask to make them feel less self conscious?
Anyone who genuinely feels that COVID is going to kill them, but are more bothered about appearance than safety is a f
king idiot.I’m now wondering what you will come up with next?
As I said, adherence was perhaps 5% on the 9th in Scotland, and 95% on the 10th. If you look at the polls. Over 60% were calling for mandated mask. I'm just trying to explain the gap.
Seems quite simple to me. Facebook is full of people complaining shops are unsafe because no one wears masks, people cough on the apples. But they are too vain and selfish to wear a mask themselves. Because they know enough about masks to understand it's not meant to protect the wearer. It's meant to stop them breathing on everything and reducing spread. (they are clever enough to understand this at least).
No way are they going to be in the minority who wears a mask. But if everyone wears them, party time.
sambucket said:
I'm not sure of your point Eddie. Are you just being pointlessly mean, or is there a point buried in there somewhere?
You posted last week saying you personally didn't follow any of the covid rules - I thought that was somewhat ironic considering your enthusiasm for lockdowns and mask wearing for everyone else. Some might say you were being a little inconsistant, or even hypocritical?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-5...
BBC said:
A petition calling for the end to cancer treatment delays forced by the coronavirus pandemic has topped 100,000 signatures in hours.
Craig and Mandy Russell set up the campaign after their daughter Kelly Smith, 31, from Macclesfield, Cheshire died from bowel cancer in June.
Her life was "dramatically" cut short by treatment delays, they said.
Government action is being called for after scientists suggested delays could cause 35,000 excess cancer deaths.
The Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) has insisted cancer patients have been treated as a "priority" during the pandemic.
The online petition is part of Mr and Mrs Russell's campaign called Catch Up With Cancer with campaign group Radiotherapy4Life.
"The government and senior NHS leaders need to react to this national tragedy in cancer services," the petition states.
"Sadly it is too late for Kelly, but there's still time to save others."
Ms Smith, a beautician, was diagnosed with stage four bowel cancer in 2017 but her parents said her chemotherapy treatment was stopped in March, halfway through a cycle.
Mr Russell said she was "responding very well" to it but medics thought it an "appropriate time" to take a break because of the risk of catching Covid-19.
Within weeks the cancer accelerated radically, he said.
"Having that finality from a treatment point of view left her very angry and very scared," Mr Russell added.
Professor Pat Price, founder of the Radiotherapy4Life campaign, said: "We have to get cancer services up and running much quicker than the end of the year and boost radiotherapy services to play a vital role in catching up with cancer."
The DHSC said that during the pandemic cancer patients have been a "priority, with urgent and essential tests and treatments going ahead in a safe way for thousands of patients".
Craig and Mandy Russell set up the campaign after their daughter Kelly Smith, 31, from Macclesfield, Cheshire died from bowel cancer in June.
Her life was "dramatically" cut short by treatment delays, they said.
Government action is being called for after scientists suggested delays could cause 35,000 excess cancer deaths.
The Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) has insisted cancer patients have been treated as a "priority" during the pandemic.
The online petition is part of Mr and Mrs Russell's campaign called Catch Up With Cancer with campaign group Radiotherapy4Life.
"The government and senior NHS leaders need to react to this national tragedy in cancer services," the petition states.
"Sadly it is too late for Kelly, but there's still time to save others."
Ms Smith, a beautician, was diagnosed with stage four bowel cancer in 2017 but her parents said her chemotherapy treatment was stopped in March, halfway through a cycle.
Mr Russell said she was "responding very well" to it but medics thought it an "appropriate time" to take a break because of the risk of catching Covid-19.
Within weeks the cancer accelerated radically, he said.
"Having that finality from a treatment point of view left her very angry and very scared," Mr Russell added.
Professor Pat Price, founder of the Radiotherapy4Life campaign, said: "We have to get cancer services up and running much quicker than the end of the year and boost radiotherapy services to play a vital role in catching up with cancer."
The DHSC said that during the pandemic cancer patients have been a "priority, with urgent and essential tests and treatments going ahead in a safe way for thousands of patients".
EddieSteadyGo said:
You posted last week saying you personally didn't follow any of the covid rules - I thought that was somewhat ironic considering your enthusiasm for lockdowns and mask wearing for everyone else. Some might say you were being a little inconsistant, or even hypocritical?
I don't follow any of the rules personally, no. Glad it amuses you, I guess. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff